Women Joining the Ranks of Specials Ops

Off Topic
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[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I have personaly trained a couple women to pass the test for the Canadian military, and have seen the book and requirements. I’m sure this is quite diffewrent from elite forces, but for the general army they have a different test than the men. They lowered the required push ups , situps, and the weight, on the dead weight drag, and carry. I’m not sure how I feel about letting them in the elite forces, but I’m sure there are jobs within the elite forces that women could do as well or better than a man.

From the point of a sniper or tactical layout, women might be better. There is the call for alot of hand to hand combat with these forces, this is where I would have concerns. If I was on say a 4 man team that included a women, and we got into a tight spot, where there was hand to hand combat 4 on 4, I would have concerns for the whole team. Smarter people than me have already made the decision on this, so I imagine they have adressed these concerns.

We’ll have to wait and see if a women actually makes it through the training, if so I wish them luck.[/quote]

Women have worked with SOF units as enablers. However, that’s just working with them as an enabler. That isn’t being part 12 man ODA so the requirements aren’t nearly as high. I’ve heard of male enablers working with an ODA that couldn’t cut it, they quit on the team and the mission and ended up just being dead weight. That can get people killed. For women to be able to make it in the world of Special Operations they need to be able to meet the same requirements as their male counterparts.

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I only speak of what I’ve seen with my own eyes, and thats the requirements for basic training. I have no opinion one way or another, if someone is qualified and pass the test they should get the spot. I know for basic training the standards were lowered, lets hope thats not the case for special forces. I have a friend thats airborn devision here, and thats pretty elite, so I’m waiting to here what the SOS themselves have to say about this.

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Wait wait wait.

They actually cut the physical training requirements for women?

Whats next, making m16s lighter for the ladies? Or making the gun handle that much dinky? Got to love feminists.

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Guess davo got his peepee spanked enough, haven’t seen him return.

As has been said, there is already a double standard for women - why would any rational person not believe the same would be done for SOF training? Someone mentioned the double is only on stuff like PFTs, not school standards. Okay, let’s look at that.

Guy wants to go be a SEAL, he has to pass the physical requirements: 500m swim, pushups, situps, pullups, 1.5 mile run (forget the actual minimum requirements). There are very few women that can do A pullup, let alone the 8 or so that are required. Women in the Navy are already allowed to do their pushups on their knees - even if you require the same total number, you don’t think that’s already lowering the standard by having them move a smaller percentage of their bodyweight?

If a woman can meet the EXACT same requirements as the guys, then good for her. Life doesn’t get easier after training is over. I agree with what has been said above - the camaraderie and unit cohesion will suffer, if for no other reason than the fact that a 135-lb chick is going to have serious trouble moving my 210-lb frame should something happen. I don’t care what GI Jane shows, she’s not gonna suddenly grow a pair and be able to sling me up in a fireman’s carry and run for cover.

Funny side note on that one: when they were prepping for that movie, Demi Moore and her handlers (a couple of which were ex-frogs) went to the annual SEAL Reunion, with the intent of hanging around more SEALs so she could prep her character more. After receiving multiple threats, they beat a hasty retreat.

And the female Olympian example is laughable. Olympians of either sex are extremely talented in ONE thing: whatever their specific sport is. SOF operators are jack of all trades, masters of none. Which brings up another point: the idea that a female could go through the training, and then ‘find a job for her talents’ is BS as well. A chick might make a good sniper, but guess what. When a SEAL platoon (or SF ODA, SJ correct me if I’m wrong) goes on a mission with no need for a sniper overwatch, then the sniper falls in with the rest of the platoon. Ever heard the Marine saying, every Marine is a rifleman first? Same thing. Every SEAL (and SF) is a shooter first, and then whatever their extra training has made them second. Having the sniper sit out because they don’t need a sniper would cut into the already limited manpower pool.

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why not?

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srsly

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433×592 27.3 KB

I say go for it

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[quote]boatguy wrote:
Guess davo got his peepee spanked enough, haven’t seen him return.

As has been said, there is already a double standard for women - why would any rational person not believe the same would be done for SOF training? Someone mentioned the double is only on stuff like PFTs, not school standards. Okay, let’s look at that.

Guy wants to go be a SEAL, he has to pass the physical requirements: 500m swim, pushups, situps, pullups, 1.5 mile run (forget the actual minimum requirements). There are very few women that can do A pullup, let alone the 8 or so that are required. Women in the Navy are already allowed to do their pushups on their knees - even if you require the same total number, you don’t think that’s already lowering the standard by having them move a smaller percentage of their bodyweight?

If a woman can meet the EXACT same requirements as the guys, then good for her. Life doesn’t get easier after training is over. I agree with what has been said above - the camaraderie and unit cohesion will suffer, if for no other reason than the fact that a 135-lb chick is going to have serious trouble moving my 210-lb frame should something happen. I don’t care what GI Jane shows, she’s not gonna suddenly grow a pair and be able to sling me up in a fireman’s carry and run for cover.

Funny side note on that one: when they were prepping for that movie, Demi Moore and her handlers (a couple of which were ex-frogs) went to the annual SEAL Reunion, with the intent of hanging around more SEALs so she could prep her character more. After receiving multiple threats, they beat a hasty retreat.

And the female Olympian example is laughable. Olympians of either sex are extremely talented in ONE thing: whatever their specific sport is. SOF operators are jack of all trades, masters of none. Which brings up another point: the idea that a female could go through the training, and then ‘find a job for her talents’ is BS as well. A chick might make a good sniper, but guess what. When a SEAL platoon (or SF ODA, SJ correct me if I’m wrong) goes on a mission with no need for a sniper overwatch, then the sniper falls in with the rest of the platoon. Ever heard the Marine saying, every Marine is a rifleman first? Same thing. Every SEAL (and SF) is a shooter first, and then whatever their extra training has made them second. Having the sniper sit out because they don’t need a sniper would cut into the already limited manpower pool.[/quote]

You make a great point on camaraderie and unit cohesion. One thing I’ve read time and time again is that passing the selection course and training pipeline doesn’t guarantee your time in a SOF unit. Rangers can get Released For Standards while others simply get forced out of the community. It seems like you might be a SWCC guy. If someone on your Boat Team can’t pull their own weight I’m sure you guys will do what you can to make sure their career as a SB is a short one. With a woman that wouldn’t be possible, she could easily say her removal is motivated by her gender and it’d be too political for anyone to touch. I really doubt anyone on any Boat Team would want to work with someone that has a reputation for not pulling their weight whether it’s a man or a woman. I think that’d create a double standard that all of the men within the SOF community would hate.