Nice work man, good to see you doing the conditioning intros!
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
1RM test day
First time Iāve pushed for 1RM for a long time, but thought it might be time to see where Iām at with these, plus it gives me a chance to evaluate how Iām progressing. Did it āmeetā style, or as close as I can get.
Squat:
120kg, 125kg, 130kg May have had a little bit more in the tank for these, but rules are rules.
Bench:
100kg, 105kg, didnāt attempt my third, could feel something going in my lower back. Seems to happen when I really push the weight on bench.
Deadlift:
162.5kg, 170kg (fail), 170kg.
Disappointed to have missed the 1,000lbs, but after finding out how far off my estimated 1RM are, compared to an actual max, I shouldnāt have been surprised. Means a few more strength cycles until I hit 1,000lb though.[/quote]
Thatās some good work!
Looking over your training, IMO thatās actually REALLY good given how much higher rep stuff you do. Thereās no substitute for low range (1-3) work with heavy loads to boost max single effort strength though. But like I said, given how much higher rep endurance-y kind of stuff you do those are damn good maxes.
And like P3wnisher said, at a meet you get much longer breaks between attempts.
Keep it up.[/quote]
Thanks man. Iām starting to think that a few joker sets might do a better job for me in terms of pure strength than the plus sets. And probably wonāt lead to the same soreness either. In fact, thatās kinda what Iāve been doing with bench for ages so might look at rolling it out to the other lifts, especially my squat.[/quote]
Iād definitely look at joker sets, but the plus sets have been working well for me for my bench press especially, although I do them for squats too. I only use them on my heavy days, though. What Iāve been doing so far is four ānormalā sets (4x3 in the first microcycle, 4x2 in the second and 4x1 in the third) with the fifth essentially an AMRAP set that is usually a rep PR at that weight. For squats Iāll use wraps for that final plus set.
For squats I might also go a different way depending how Iām feeling and just work up a one heavy single in sleeves (usually very close to my max or even a new max) and then drop down to something I can hit for five reps or so as a kind of heavy back-off set.
Deadlift day, 5ās week:
Conditioning:
100 jump ropes, 10 kB swings @36kg, 5 rounds
Deads:
Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg.
137.5kg x 3
147.5kg x 3
ab paveliser, curls and weighted back extensions to finish.
Still feeling a few pain points in my left lats which severely restricted what assistance I could do pain free and only allowed me to pull with a supinated palm.
More importantly, need to drastically rethink my deadlift plan. I cut my plus set short at 20 reps because it was turning into a conditioning session which was definitely not the point. As much as I donāt like it, I think pushing my TM up and using front squats instead of FSL might be the way forward.
" Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg " all I can say is gulp !! personally I donāt like high reps for deadlifting I recently did 2x8 snatch grip style and even then decided that 6 reps is more than enough for meā¦ My reasoning is that as the reps get higher even with good intentions the form gets looser which is where injuries happen.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
" Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg " all I can say is gulp !! personally I donāt like high reps for deadlifting I recently did 2x8 snatch grip style and even then decided that 6 reps is more than enough for meā¦ My reasoning is that as the reps get higher even with good intentions the form gets looser which is where injuries happen.[/quote]
You are probably 100% right. I certainly donāt pretend this set was in any way a good idea or did much good for me. I feel thereās some benefits from high rep deadlifts but this was too far.
Donāt be afraid to take the plunge! Different set and rep ranges and progressions can be used for different lifts. Look at the variety of intensities/reps, and even methods that successful lifters here use. You can use one scheme for deads, and a totally different one for presses or whatever. Use the best stuff you know of!
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Donāt be afraid to take the plunge! Different set and rep ranges and progressions can be used for different lifts. Look at the variety of intensities/reps, and even methods that successful lifters here use. You can use one scheme for deads, and a totally different one for presses or whatever. Use the best stuff you know of![/quote]
Iāve been using high rep touch and go deads for a while though, and while Iām getting something out of them, my lower rep work has suffered, hence the disparity between my estimated 1RM (comfortably over 200kg) and my real 1RM (roughly 170kg) I think some lower rep work for a few cycles will help fix this.
Totally agreed.
For deadlifts I reset for every rep this only takes a second but gets rid of any stretch reflex and I believe it gives me a more accurate reading on where my deadlift is at as Iām sure youāll find out.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]tredaway wrote:
" Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg " all I can say is gulp !! personally I donāt like high reps for deadlifting I recently did 2x8 snatch grip style and even then decided that 6 reps is more than enough for meā¦ My reasoning is that as the reps get higher even with good intentions the form gets looser which is where injuries happen.[/quote]
You are probably 100% right. I certainly donāt pretend this set was in any way a good idea or did much good for me. I feel thereās some benefits from high rep deadlifts but this was too far.[/quote]
Try clusters for DL. Iāve done that a few times, itās pretty cool.
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]tredaway wrote:
" Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg " all I can say is gulp !! personally I donāt like high reps for deadlifting I recently did 2x8 snatch grip style and even then decided that 6 reps is more than enough for meā¦ My reasoning is that as the reps get higher even with good intentions the form gets looser which is where injuries happen.[/quote]
You are probably 100% right. I certainly donāt pretend this set was in any way a good idea or did much good for me. I feel thereās some benefits from high rep deadlifts but this was too far.[/quote]
Try clusters for DL. Iāve done that a few times, itās pretty cool. [/quote]
Iād be interested to hear how you programmed your cluster training and how it worked for you ?
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Donāt be afraid to take the plunge! Different set and rep ranges and progressions can be used for different lifts. Look at the variety of intensities/reps, and even methods that successful lifters here use. You can use one scheme for deads, and a totally different one for presses or whatever. Use the best stuff you know of![/quote]
Iāve been using high rep touch and go deads for a while though, and while Iām getting something out of them, my lower rep work has suffered, hence the disparity between my estimated 1RM (comfortably over 200kg) and my real 1RM (roughly 170kg) I think some lower rep work for a few cycles will help fix this.[/quote]
Nice work in here.
I agree with FlatFarmers. Donāt be afraid of high reps. When I pulled 405 (183.7 kg) conventional, I wanted to make the switch to sumo. I tested my max and got around 380 (172.4 kg) sumo. I decided to be extremely conservative to build volume and technique so I put my sumo max at 335 which set my training max at 300 (136.1 kg) when doing 5/3/1 BBB 3-month challenge. In the 4th month (one month after finishing the 3-month challenge), I pulled 295 (133.8 kg) for 15 reps. I then pulled 325 (147.4 kg) for 15 reps on the 7th month and 345 (156.5 kg) for 15 reps on the 10th month. From there on, the reps started to drop off quickly. The reason for it was because I wasnāt patient in sticking with the program. I started changing things up by going for heavy deadlift singles and adding in heavier assistance work because I was too eager to see the strength progress translate to maximal strength. After 13 months I pulled 465 (210.9 kg) and 375 (170.1 kg) for 8 reps but I believe couldāve road out the gains for a lot longer. I dropped the heavy assistance after noticing it affect progress and got to 420 (190.5 kg) for 6 reps after 18 months. Overall it was good progress but I still regret making the changes because it did make a difference.
The high reps helped to build a lot of muscle while allowing me to push hard on heavy squats because I was able to recover more easily with the high rep deadlifts. I was able to keep the deadlift reps high when my assistance work was easy (5x10). Once I switched to heavy assistance work (5x8,5x5,5x3), the reps dropped off quick. With the above approach I basically did minimum reps on 5s and 1s week and went all out on 3s week to get the rep PRs. I probably wouldāve been pushing too hard if I didnāt compensate by only doing minimum reps on 5s and 1s week for deadlift.
I hope that gives some insight on high reps possibly being beneficial. I did stop on every rep instead of touch and go. I recommend you do what you suck at because youāll likely make gains the fastest on it. Donāt worry about the 1RM calculator for high reps. Just make it a goal to not lose many reps each cycle as the weight goes up. If it works, donāt change it. If you see progress in the next couple months, it might be worth sticking with.
With respect to injury, I donāt see a higher risk for high rep deadlifts unless you get lazy and donāt keep everything tight. Grinding with good technique is a good thing to learn. I always made an effort to keep my chest up and everything was fine. Most of the technique was solidified when doing 5/3/1 BBB 3-month challenge.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]tredaway wrote:
" Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg " all I can say is gulp !! personally I donāt like high reps for deadlifting I recently did 2x8 snatch grip style and even then decided that 6 reps is more than enough for meā¦ My reasoning is that as the reps get higher even with good intentions the form gets looser which is where injuries happen.[/quote]
You are probably 100% right. I certainly donāt pretend this set was in any way a good idea or did much good for me. I feel thereās some benefits from high rep deadlifts but this was too far.[/quote]
Try clusters for DL. Iāve done that a few times, itās pretty cool. [/quote]
Iād be interested to hear how you programmed your cluster training and how it worked for you ?
[/quote]
I used it for a three week period between meets while I focused on my bench.
In the first week I went 451, second week 462 and third week 473. My max was 484 set at the meet the week before week 1.
Iād pull between three and five singles with about 30 seconds rest between. Very simple. At the time my main focus was my bench and I just wanted to maintain my DL. At the second meet I pulled 501 with room.
Iād say that you could run something like that for maybe six to eight weeks because the clusters are the only deadlifts you do. Squats are similar low volume.
Iād also think you could use that approach to heavy pulling days in a regular program, but then I think you wouldnāt want to pull heavy more than once a fortnight. You also might want to go up 5 instead of 10 lbs.
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
[quote]tredaway wrote:
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]tredaway wrote:
" Worked up to 20 reps at 127.5kg " all I can say is gulp !! personally I donāt like high reps for deadlifting I recently did 2x8 snatch grip style and even then decided that 6 reps is more than enough for meā¦ My reasoning is that as the reps get higher even with good intentions the form gets looser which is where injuries happen.[/quote]
You are probably 100% right. I certainly donāt pretend this set was in any way a good idea or did much good for me. I feel thereās some benefits from high rep deadlifts but this was too far.[/quote]
Try clusters for DL. Iāve done that a few times, itās pretty cool. [/quote]
Iād be interested to hear how you programmed your cluster training and how it worked for you ?
[/quote]
I used it for a three week period between meets while I focused on my bench.
In the first week I went 451, second week 462 and third week 473. My max was 484 set at the meet the week before week 1.
Iād pull between three and five singles with about 30 seconds rest between. Very simple. At the time my main focus was my bench and I just wanted to maintain my DL. At the second meet I pulled 501 with room.
Iād say that you could run something like that for maybe six to eight weeks because the clusters are the only deadlifts you do. Squats are similar low volume.
Iād also think you could use that approach to heavy pulling days in a regular program, but then I think you wouldnāt want to pull heavy more than once a fortnight. You also might want to go up 5 instead of 10 lbs. [/quote]
Thanks for the input, this is something that I would like to incorporate further down the road in my training so its definitely of interest to me, although I would probably use it for bench as the deadlift is my strongest lift where as my bench needs some work.
This is all just my opinion, of course. At first I just meant that it would be OK to do less reps on the deadlift. For example, if the 5/3/1 setup works for squats, do that for squats. If 8x3 works for bench, do that for bench. If you need lower reps, with more resets and first reps for deadlift, do that for deadlifts. Use the ābestā approach you know.
But I like what you guys are kicking around. The touch and go deads are cool. Big lift, big weights, big ROM, lots of muscles used. But you need those first reps, focusing on setup and execution, to āpracticeā for those heavy 1 rep deads.
That said, I have to agree with 206 and Mark, youāve got to be careful about going too heavy too much. You donāt want to do too many tough āgrinders.ā
This is why I think techniques like rest/pause and cluster reps are the future. You can kind of do everything. Weights heavy enough to be effective. Lots of 1st reps, and the satisfaction of high rep deads. Iāve been doing 6 or 8 singles with short, short rest between singles on week one. Week two, I aim for around four ādoubles.ā Iām not exactly resting between sets, but the amount of time between doubles in a little longer than a re-set. Week 3, I want to get around ten totals reps with 3 brief resets. Week 4, 10+ reps with 2 resets in there somewhere.
The following week I add a little weight and start over with 6 singles. So its like a deload.
I totally āborrowedā this from another guy.
Wow, loads of ideas floating around on here for deads while Iām away. Iāll have a proper read when I have more time later, but thank you for your input.
Shoulder day:
Front Squats: worked up to 77.5kg x 5 easy reps. No rack available so was limited to what I could comfortably clean.
Push Press:
3 x 2 @72kg
Single clean and push press:
3 x 3 @60kg
dB clean and press:
5 x 5 @2x22kg Switched to dB because someone stole the rack while I took a slash
Incline Smith machine presses:
2 x 10 @60kg
one R-P set @60kg, ~25 total reps, ish
Face-pulls:some
Cable curls: some
Incline treadmill sprints. Cut these short because I was really feeling them in my ankles and knees.
Rower sprints: 8 x 250m sprints at ~1:45/500m pace.
Tried some pull ups early on and am still getting some gyp from my back, had to row with an underhand grip. Will need to really hit some pulling volume once itās healed.
I think, on the advice of FlatsFarmer and MarkKO above, I think my new plan for deadlift day will be:
5/3/1 sets (no plus set)
2-2-1 clusters at my TM, adding a cluster every week until my TM resets
Front squats: 25 total reps @ 80kg aiming to decrease sets every week.
1 extended set of shoving food in my mouth.
Thanks guys.
[/quote]1 extended set of shoving food in my mouth.
Thanks guys.[/quote]
This is essential to successfully recovering.
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
[quote]1 extended set of shoving food in my mouth.
Thanks guys.[/quote]
This is essential to successfully recovering.
[/quote]
Iām a fat kid at heart so very little gets me more determined in a workout than knowing Iāve got a monster cheat meal after.
Squat day:
3ās week:
No conditioning because I just flat out forgot. Might squeeze one in later or tomorrow.
Squat:
Worked up to 100kg x 6. Not a PR, but they were all crisp, clean ATG reps
5 x 3 pause squats at 80kg
worked back up with singles/doubles to 120kg
A few sets of back extensions.
Changed from my original plan today, was working in with an ex-crossfit guy and we ended up helping each others technique a fair bit. He noticed I was rotating my left foot far more than my right and that was what was causing me to squat way over on my right side. The doubles and singles were mostly just to try out the tweaks, and partly to make up for pussying out of forcing more reps at 100kg. Having said that, I think Iām liking the idea of keeping my 5/3/1 reps tidy and clean, removing any pauses between reps etc. and then hitting some jokers for some heavy, sloppier reps after.