Wow, so many responses. I usually try to alternate heavy and light assistance work, so the next block after clusters will be light, but still focusing on strength off the floor. My instinct tells me that deficits with a pause at what would be ground level might be the way forward, although I’ve never heard of them done.
Missed yesterdays training, no time to log:
Bench day, 5’s week:
worked up to 85kg x 8. Technically meeting a rep PR, but felt more stable than last time. Probably the only positive I’m taking from this.
I’ve heard of deficit DL with pauses, but I’ve never done them.
I have done paused DL at my stall point and to be honest I don’t think it really did too much. But, it certainly didn’t hurt.
I have a suspicion that if you’re weak off the floor deficit pulls will definitely help, but adding a pause may not really do much.
I also suspect if you stall mid shin or just below the knees bands or chains may be the way to go. For myself, I’m keeping that as an untested ace up my sleeve for conventional because at the moment what I’m doing seems to be working well enough not to require changing.
That’s another point: if you’re happy with your progress, or rather of your progress is acceptable, why change too much?
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
I’ve heard of deficit DL with pauses, but I’ve never done them.
I have done paused DL at my stall point and to be honest I don’t think it really did too much. But, it certainly didn’t hurt.
I have a suspicion that if you’re weak off the floor deficit pulls will definitely help, but adding a pause may not really do much.
I also suspect if you stall mid shin or just below the knees bands or chains may be the way to go. For myself, I’m keeping that as an untested ace up my sleeve for conventional because at the moment what I’m doing seems to be working well enough not to require changing.
That’s another point: if you’re happy with your progress, or rather of your progress is acceptable, why change too much? [/quote]
To my memory, I’ve never failed to pull a deadlift that’s broken the floor, so thats definitely a focus for me.
The reason I change is partly to keep it interesting, although I’m slowly growing out of that, but also because I burn out by lifting heavy all the time, especially with the deadlift. I’ve tried things like pinning ROM progression cycles back to back and the second cycle is always a failure.
Mark has a strong lower body. You can see it in his videos. (Great deadlift, Mark!) Look how vertical his shins stay. I have pussy-legs. I guess our different “leverages” explain how the dl variations work opposite for us.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Mark has a strong lower body. You can see it in his videos. (Great deadlift, Mark!) Look how vertical his shins stay. I have pussy-legs. I guess our different “leverages” explain how the dl variations work opposite for us. [/quote]
It’s one of those things where experimenting is the only way to find the answers I think.
Deadlift day:
Deadlift: worked up to 137.5kg x 5
then:
150kg x 1
160kg x 2-1-1
so surprised at how do-able this was with a sore lower back. Been a long time since I’ve pulled a weight like this.
Squat:
5 x 80kg
5 x 90kg
5 x 102.5kg
“tabata” RKC planks. 4 mins of planks, “active” RKC planks in a 20sec on, 10sec off pattern. Came up with this on the spot, not a terrible idea actually.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Mark has a strong lower body. You can see it in his videos. (Great deadlift, Mark!) Look how vertical his shins stay. I have pussy-legs. I guess our different “leverages” explain how the dl variations work opposite for us. [/quote]
Well thank you! I don’t think its just leverages either for me - more that because I’ve got decent DL and squat leverages when I started out I over emphasised those exercises. I neglected upper body pushes and pressing.
dagill2, your idea of switching up here and there is pretty good IMO. Especially for assistance and main lift variations.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
Deadlift day:
Deadlift: worked up to 137.5kg x 5
then:
150kg x 1
160kg x 2-1-1
so surprised at how do-able this was with a sore lower back. Been a long time since I’ve pulled a weight like this [/quote]
180 kg for sure. Then 200 kg in not too long a time.
I must be one of the few who finds it easier at the bottom during the deadlift and tougher towards the end of the lift although to be honest it’s been a while since I’ve done a heavy single so who knows.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
I must be one of the few who finds it easier at the bottom during the deadlift and tougher towards the end of the lift although to be honest it’s been a while since I’ve done a heavy single so who knows.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s too uncommon at all. I know a poor lockout is something a fair few people have to work on. For me its the mid range, from just below to just above the knees.
One of my buddies, for example, is super fast off the floor but struggles once he passes the knees. He shakes that much last meet he got called for hitching - he pulls with super high hips so he kind of has to outrun the bar or he struggles to complete.
So many comments, loving it. T3hPwnishers take on “weak off the floor” deadlifts (welcome to the club by the way Powerpuff, glad to see you stop by, always love your contributions on these forums) is that set up and core strength is often the root cause, which would make perfect sense for me. My feeling is that keeping consistent with my ab work and deficits are probably the way to go for my next cycle.
Quick one for today, didn’t have long to fit some conditioning in today so:
Tabata front squats, empty bar. Probably averaged about 10-12 reps per set. Will probably add more weight next time, as if these didn’t already suck enough.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
Deadlift day:
Deadlift: worked up to 137.5kg x 5
then:
150kg x 1
160kg x 2-1-1
so surprised at how do-able this was with a sore lower back. Been a long time since I’ve pulled a weight like this [/quote]
180 kg for sure. Then 200 kg in not too long a time. [/quote]
I really hope so, 180kg has been a goal for a while. Ever since I found out I couldn’t do it, actually. Thanks for stopping by man, always grateful on the input from stronger lifters.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
So many comments, loving it. T3hPwnishers take on “weak off the floor” deadlifts (welcome to the club by the way Powerpuff, glad to see you stop by, always love your contributions on these forums) is that set up and core strength is often the root cause, which would make perfect sense for me. My feeling is that keeping consistent with my ab work and deficits are probably the way to go for my next cycle.
[/quote]
Thank you! About DLs that are glued down, I was thinking my problem is probably set up, not getting my hammies properly loaded. I was recently talking to Minimaltechno about trying some deficit lifts, but haven’t done it yet. I’m looking forward to trying them over the next few weeks to see if I notice improvement. I hadn’t even thought about Ab work/ weak core strength. That’s also very possible in me. Hum… I’m not much of a PLer.
Along with set-up and core strength, I’ve had a revelation through my various recent injuries that minor, undetected injuries can also be to blame for those rare days when a weight you used to be able to pull of the floor won’t come undone. The body seems to have a governor put into place that will keep you from pulling something heavy if there is a broken link in the chain. When I was dealing with my glute issue, I could feel the strength in me needed to get the weight off the floor, but my body would just shut down everytime I tried. It’s one of those things to consider looking into.
Once I can start pulling heavy again, I’m going to be doing all sorts of crazy crap like axle ROM progressions, top down deadlifts, and pretty much anything else I’ve been wanting to try but never could fit in to my schedule, so I’ll be sure to report any new findings, haha.
I’ve had a problem with locking out the deadlift and although it has improved, it’s still the weak point. The main reason I found was because my upper back, abs and hips were weak. The stronger those areas are, it’s easier to start with a good torso position and hold the good position all the way to lockout. I pull sumo so it is much more difficult to lockout with more forward lean.
Pause deadlifts and block pulls have helped too. Anything that forces you to maintain good position throughout the lift. Deficit deads can teach people to get tight at an even weaker position than normal. Using many variations over time and learning to stay tight in all those variations will help improve the main lift.
There are so many reasons different parts of a pull (or any lift) can go wrong it can be hard to figure out the best approach to fixing the issue. I definitely like T3hPwnisher’s idea of the protective governor and I think he’s on the money.
For instance, while it might initially seem odd that elbows are important in the squat, when my elbows were at the peak of their shitness my squat suffered because there was no way I could tighten up my upper back. Only when they got better did my squat feel ok with a straight bar again.
Btw dagill2 I would suspect, as I said before, that you are very close to if not at 180 kg now. I’ve found a big part of any heavy single is being confident enough that you could get it that the initial weight of it doesn’t flummox you. There’s no problem with being nervous I don’t think, but only as long as you’re not actually scared.
[quote]lift206 wrote:
I’ve had a problem with locking out the deadlift and although it has improved, it’s still the weak point. The main reason I found was because my upper back, abs and hips were weak. The stronger those areas are, it’s easier to start with a good torso position and hold the good position all the way to lockout. I pull sumo so it is much more difficult to lockout with more forward lean.
Pause deadlifts and block pulls have helped too. Anything that forces you to maintain good position throughout the lift. Deficit deads can teach people to get tight at an even weaker position than normal. Using many variations over time and learning to stay tight in all those variations will help improve the main lift.[/quote]
Sumo is so set-up reliant it isn’t funny. Conventional you can just about muscle back into shape if you’re strong enough but if your sumo is poorly set up from the start my experience is that it won’t budge. Which is why I use sumo for speed work mostly. I might try seeing how my max sumo compares to conventional but I doubt they’d be close.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
So many comments, loving it. T3hPwnishers take on “weak off the floor” deadlifts (welcome to the club by the way Powerpuff, glad to see you stop by, always love your contributions on these forums) is that set up and core strength is often the root cause, which would make perfect sense for me. My feeling is that keeping consistent with my ab work and deficits are probably the way to go for my next cycle.
[/quote]
Thank you! About DLs that are glued down, I was thinking my problem is probably set up, not getting my hammies properly loaded. I was recently talking to Minimaltechno about trying some deficit lifts, but haven’t done it yet. I’m looking forward to trying them over the next few weeks to see if I notice improvement. I hadn’t even thought about Ab work/ weak core strength. That’s also very possible in me. Hum… I’m not much of a PLer.
[/quote]
I’ll have to follow along, see how they work out for you.
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
Btw dagill2 I would suspect, as I said before, that you are very close to if not at 180 kg now. I’ve found a big part of any heavy single is being confident enough that you could get it that the initial weight of it doesn’t flummox you. There’s no problem with being nervous I don’t think, but only as long as you’re not actually scared. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure you’re right, I just don’t want to interrupt my normal programming to test it. Particularly with my lower back feeling a bit beat up right now. After this cycle, I’m definitely due a deload so that’s the time 400lbs is going up.
If I can fit all the plates on the bar, I don’t have many big plates so I’m using 2.5kg plates just to get to 160kg. Not 100% sure 180kg will actually fit, might have to test before hand.
OHP day:
Worked up to 47.5kg x 10
Squat:
5 x 80kg, 90kg, 102.5kg
superset:
dB arnold press 5 x 10 (2x16kg), 5 x 10 pull-ups.
[quote]MarkKO wrote:
Btw dagill2 I would suspect, as I said before, that you are very close to if not at 180 kg now. I’ve found a big part of any heavy single is being confident enough that you could get it that the initial weight of it doesn’t flummox you. There’s no problem with being nervous I don’t think, but only as long as you’re not actually scared. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure you’re right, I just don’t want to interrupt my normal programming to test it. Particularly with my lower back feeling a bit beat up right now. After this cycle, I’m definitely due a deload so that’s the time 400lbs is going up.
If I can fit all the plates on the bar, I don’t have many big plates so I’m using 2.5kg plates just to get to 160kg. Not 100% sure 180kg will actually fit, might have to test before hand.
OHP day:
Worked up to 47.5kg x 10
Squat:
5 x 80kg, 90kg, 102.5kg
superset:
dB arnold press 5 x 10 (2x16kg), 5 x 10 pull-ups.[/quote]
Good call.
I’m guessing you train at home? I’d consider picking up a couple of 20 kg plates. Cast iron ones tend to be quite reasonable.
