[quote]Gregus wrote:
egnatiosj wrote:
Gregus wrote:
whotookmyname wrote:
Gregus wrote:
egnatiosj wrote:
trmn8r99 wrote:
i’m to young to start taking all that shit.
This is completely wrong. To imply that, winstrol is possibly “safer” than the other AAS, is very incorrect. It is analogous to the idea, that a PH cycle is some how safer than an illegal steroid. They both decrease endogenous testosterone production, have negative effects on lipid profiles, effect the liver, prostate growth, and winstrol also appears to induce some extra myocardial thickening. Please do not spread this type of “bro” idiocy on T-Nation.
So there is no difference to the user in terms of the issues you listed whether i do anadrol 50/Test suspension cycles or Primo and Anavar cycles?
Gregus, did you realize that this thread was long dead until it was bumped with a random question about an avatar (one that was changed since the thread was originally live, iirc)?
egnatiosj made his point because many, if not most, newbs have the false belief that prohormones or certain oral steroids, are inherently safer than injectables. He certainly did not say that all AAS are completely equal in terms of side effects.
I didn’t look at the date, sorry lol.
His statement open up with:
“To imply that, winstrol is possibly “safer” than the other AAS, is very incorrect.”
His statements are absolutely incorrect and he does not know what he’s talking about. Sorry.
By all means, explain, with scientific backup.
No. Those are basics you have to know to even be here. But FYI why don’t you study Anavar and then Anadrol 50. Study the differences, side effects, toxicity etc etc…It’ll all become self explanatory very quickly. [/quote]
Oh wow, you must be really really smart huh? Why dont you explain to me why oxandrolone does not exhibit similar toxicity to oxymetholone? How about you show me a study, where oxandrolone is used at the doses taken BBers (50-100mg/day). What do you consider to be more toxic, the significant change in HDL/LDL associated with oxandrolone, or the possibility of breast tissue in oxymetholone? Here is the thing, you little twat, you read some fucking steroid book, by some jackass wanna be professional and take it as gold. FIND STUDIES ON THESE DRUGS, AT THE DOSES AT WHICH WE USE THEM and compare them then. Do you know what the therapeutic index is for oxandrolone? Here is a hint its about a tenth of the minimum of which BBers take. I have seen five scripts for oxandrolone all of them were 2.5mg bid. What do you think the dose was for the studies of oxandrolone? Have you ever used oxandrolone? Have you ever used oxymetholone? Did you have blood tests before and after both of them? I have, oxandrolone was FAR worse than oxymetholone in regards to blood lipid levels. They were almost equivalent in regards to transaminases. Now remember the key here, my tiny brained friend, is studies that use common doses to bodybuilders.
Now just for fun, lets give you some case studies on oxandrolone:
-two cases of oxandrolone-induced nodular hyperplasia have been reported
- Abnormalities in liver function, including increases in sulfobromophthalein retention and concentrations of aspartate/alanine aminotransferases, bilirubin, and alkaline phosphatase, have been reported during oxandrolone therapy, particularly after high dosages (>10mg) and/or administration for prolonged periods; histologic findings of cholestasis have been observed (Prod Info Oxandrin(R), 1998d; Reynolds, 1992; AMA Department of Drugs, 1991; Kelley & Ruvalcaba, 1982; Raiti et al, 1973; Sansoy et al, 1971; Danowski et al, 1965; Fox et al, 1962a).
-Focal nodular hyperplasia, was reported following oxandrolone administration (5 mg daily for 6 months) for the treatment of stunted growth in an 11-year-old boy. The patient recovered following surgery (Alberti-Flor et al, 1984). Bleeding esophageal varices attributed to regenerative nodular hyperplasia has been observed in a 30-year-old bodybuilder who ingested 7.5 mg oxandrolone plus other anabolic steroids over a period of 18 months
-irreversible deterioration of renal function associated with malignant hypertension has been reported in a hypertensive patient with advanced renal insufficiency treated with oxandrolone (20 mg daily) (Goldman & Zarday, 1973). This patient developed marked sodium and water retention during oxandrolone administration. It was speculated that the reduced renal function was secondary to worsened hypertension as opposed to a direct effect of oxandrolone.
-An increase in GLUCOSE INTOLERANCE has been reported in girls with Turner’s syndrome treated with oxandrolone (0.125 mg/kg/day for up to 12 months)
Now for your other “safe” drug winstrol.
-A 28 year-old bodybuilder taking STANAZOLOL 280 mg for 2 years presented with ventricular tachycardia. The patient had no cardiac risk factors; studies showed severe stenotic lesions and signs of MYOCARDIAL INFARCTION. Upon discharge he was being treated with amiodarone and antianginal therapy (Mewis et al, 1996).
-Oral stanozolol (6 milligrams daily) was reported to produce more undesirable lipoprotein effects than parenteral testosterone (200 milligrams intramuscularaly once weekly) in male weight lifters in a 6-week, crossover study. Stanozolol reduced HDL-cholesterol and the HDL-2 subfraction by 33% and 71%, respectively; however, the HDL-cholesterol concentration was decreased by only 9% with testosterone, with the decrease being in the HDL-3 subfraction. Apolipoprotein A-1 levels were reduced by 8% and 40% with testosterone and stanozolol, respectively. LDL-cholesterol concentrations decreased 16% with testosterone, but increased by 29% with stanozolol. An increase in the postheparin hepatic triglyceride lipase activity of 123% was observed with stanozolol, however, increases with testosterone (25%) were not significant. These data suggest that intramuscular testosterone is preferable to oral stanazolol for indications requiring prolonged androgen or anabolic steroid therapy (Thompson et al, 1989).
- A 26-year-old body builder developed toxic hepatitis with hepatocellular necrosis after self-administration of stanozolol 40 milligrams/day (mg/d) and intramuscular testosterone enanthate 500 mg twice weekly. On admission to the hospital, the patient’s AST and ALT levels were 5870 and 10,580 international units/liter, respectively. The patient’s bilirubin and alkaline phosphatase were also elevated. Liver biopsy showed toxic hepatic lesions. After supportive care and within 12 weeks of discontinuation of androgenic/anabolic steroids, clinical signs and laboratory findings improved substantially (Stimace et al, 2002).
- CHOLESTATIC JAUNDICE that is followed by HEPATIC NECROSIS (rare) and death has been reported with stanozolol therapy (Prod Info Winstrol(R), 97a; Evely et al, 1987).
- HEPATOCELLULAR NEOPLASMS and peliosis HEPATITIS, a condition where liver tissue is replaced with blood-filled cysts, have occurred with long-term administration of stanozolol. Such hepatic pathologies are especially concerning with chronic therapy as they may go undetected until abdominal hemorrhage occurs (Prod Info Winstrol(R), 97a). Additional morphologic liver changes in hereditary angioedema patients who were treated with stanozolol have been described (Cicardi et al, 1983).
- Hepatocellular carcinoma has been associated with the chronic administration of high doses of anabolic steroids (Prod Info Winstrol(R), 97a).
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Wow you are correct, look at how safe winstrol and oxandrolone are! Now lets disregard the fact that winstrol, in suspension, is exponentially more likely to be un-sterile, or that oxandrolone is probably the most faked drug out there right now. Let’s pretend that either of them have equivalent effects as oxymetholone (they don’t). They are also more expensive than say testosterone, dbol, hell pretty much anything. Now, I didn’t even addres BPH, but we will save that for another day.
Now here is the really giggly part, in actuality, none of these compounds are dangerous assuming you are not Anencephalic. So other than yourself, I would say that all of the compounds can be used safely, with testosterone, dbol, oxymetholone, trenbolone all being much more effective and equally dangerous as oxandrolone, primo, etc.
Oh by the way, GTFO.
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