With the pullups I feel them all in my arms and shoulders. I’ve tried moving my grip around and haven’t found the best width. I’ll try narrowing it a bit again. I’ll also try leaning myself back a bit more and see how that goes too. [/quote]
I got a tip from someone in the BOI that helped me feel my back on pullups. Instead of looking totally forward, I look up at an angle. It felt it alot more in back soon as I tried this. I never heard of this before so it might be an individual thing but it worked for me.
Yates has some helpful words on bent over rows and angles/grip width at about 3:25 on this video that I got from BOI:
[/quote]
Thanks! That helps a lot. [/quote]
My PM’s don’t work Deb, I sent you a message on FB…I dunno if you ever check that anymore lol
Huh…who knows though, maybe I’m the one with the weird-ass leverages that feels it differently. I suppose it is just another exercise…much like bench and squats…that works for some better than others in specific manners.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Akuma, I think you got it a bit mixed up with BB Rows. Granted, SOME of it varies by person, but I’ve always found it to hit rhomboids/traps more when rowing into the waist, and more lats when rowing higher up into the upper abs/chest.
If you think about it, your lats get more of a stretch when you are closer to parallel to the floor, therefore would be doing more work during the pulling motion. Naturally this will also vary somewhat depending on stance/grip…but the general premise remains, yknow?[/quote]
Then im freakish, cuz i feel it vice versa. I get more Lat when coming to the waist, and when i rep em to the chest, i get it in my rhomboids/traps. I feel VERY little in my lats when i row to the chest. Which is why thats how i describe it. [/quote]
I think it also depends on how your grip is and where you are pulling your elbows. I always take a shoulder width group and pull back with exactly the same motion as the negative portion of a CGBP. Hit’s my traps and mid back really well. If I flare my elbows and go a little wider I get more lat.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Akuma, I think you got it a bit mixed up with BB Rows. Granted, SOME of it varies by person, but I’ve always found it to hit rhomboids/traps more when rowing into the waist, and more lats when rowing higher up into the upper abs/chest.
If you think about it, your lats get more of a stretch when you are closer to parallel to the floor, therefore would be doing more work during the pulling motion. Naturally this will also vary somewhat depending on stance/grip…but the general premise remains, yknow?[/quote]
Didn’t Dorian specifically do rows that way (somewhat upright, to the waist) to hit the lats?[/quote]
“Im gonna bring my body up. Its not parallel, its higher, ya. It puts your back in a safer position, also puts your lats in a mechanically strong position. Im not doing it to the chest, im not trying to train my traps and rhomboids. Im still working my lats so im bringing it to my waist.”
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Huh…who knows though, maybe I’m the one with the weird-ass leverages that feels it differently. I suppose it is just another exercise…much like bench and squats…that works for some better than others in specific manners. [/quote]
Lol exactly, who knows. I did it the way i heard from Dorian, and it fits the bill for me.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Akuma, I think you got it a bit mixed up with BB Rows. Granted, SOME of it varies by person, but I’ve always found it to hit rhomboids/traps more when rowing into the waist, and more lats when rowing higher up into the upper abs/chest.
If you think about it, your lats get more of a stretch when you are closer to parallel to the floor, therefore would be doing more work during the pulling motion. Naturally this will also vary somewhat depending on stance/grip…but the general premise remains, yknow?[/quote]
Didn’t Dorian specifically do rows that way (somewhat upright, to the waist) to hit the lats?[/quote]
“Im gonna bring my body up. Its not parallel, its higher, ya. It puts your back in a safer position, also puts your lats in a mechanically strong position. Im not doing it to the chest, im not trying to train my traps and rhomboids. Im still working my lats so im bringing it to my waist.”
Dorian, Part 2 of the Training with Kai video.[/quote]
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
So H4m, you check that video out? Whatcha think?[/quote]
Watched…and now that I think of it, I’m starting to think emphasis on rhomboids/traps or lats depends a lot more on hand placement than anything else. I noticed Kai grips the bar a good deal outside shoulder width when he’s doing them, and I think that’s the big key here. That, and the fact that when I do BB rows for upper back, not lats, I’m somewhat MORE upright than Kai in the vid. And it makes sense…I’ve always instinctively used a wider grip fro pendlay rows, and I’ll bet if I tried them with a narrow grip, and wide stance (feet), they’d be less lats and more upper back.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
So H4m, you check that video out? Whatcha think?[/quote]
Watched…and now that I think of it, I’m starting to think emphasis on rhomboids/traps or lats depends a lot more on hand placement than anything else. I noticed Kai grips the bar a good deal outside shoulder width when he’s doing them, and I think that’s the big key here. That, and the fact that when I do BB rows for upper back, not lats, I’m somewhat MORE upright than Kai in the vid. And it makes sense…I’ve always instinctively used a wider grip fro pendlay rows, and I’ll bet if I tried them with a narrow grip, and wide stance (feet), they’d be less lats and more upper back. [/quote]
Oh thinking about stuff…always leads to more thinking…damn it…
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
So H4m, you check that video out? Whatcha think?[/quote]
Watched…and now that I think of it, I’m starting to think emphasis on rhomboids/traps or lats depends a lot more on hand placement than anything else. I noticed Kai grips the bar a good deal outside shoulder width when he’s doing them, and I think that’s the big key here. That, and the fact that when I do BB rows for upper back, not lats, I’m somewhat MORE upright than Kai in the vid. And it makes sense…I’ve always instinctively used a wider grip fro pendlay rows, and I’ll bet if I tried them with a narrow grip, and wide stance (feet), they’d be less lats and more upper back. [/quote]
Oh thinking about stuff…always leads to more thinking…damn it…[/quote]
Lol now we’re gonna have 125 lbs newbs defending their specific stance/grip for rows, and explaining why they know best. Oh my.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
So H4m, you check that video out? Whatcha think?[/quote]
Watched…and now that I think of it, I’m starting to think emphasis on rhomboids/traps or lats depends a lot more on hand placement than anything else. I noticed Kai grips the bar a good deal outside shoulder width when he’s doing them, and I think that’s the big key here. That, and the fact that when I do BB rows for upper back, not lats, I’m somewhat MORE upright than Kai in the vid. And it makes sense…I’ve always instinctively used a wider grip fro pendlay rows, and I’ll bet if I tried them with a narrow grip, and wide stance (feet), they’d be less lats and more upper back. [/quote]
Oh thinking about stuff…always leads to more thinking…damn it…[/quote]
Lol now we’re gonna have 125 lbs newbs defending their specific stance/grip for rows, and explaining why they know best. Oh my. [/quote]
[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
also, i thought rack pulls were for upper back?
ahh so many questions haha[/quote]
No, rack pulls are doing Deadlifts on a rack, so the bar is set much higher. It is a lower back workout without all the fancy shmancy Hullapaloo of a regular Deadlift. A regular deadlift is damn near an Every muscle movement. Rack Pulls are meant to be an isolation for your lower back. [/quote]
Rack Pulls are supposed to hit the upper back aswell, especially if you are squeezing your traps at lockout.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Huh…who knows though, maybe I’m the one with the weird-ass leverages that feels it differently. I suppose it is just another exercise…much like bench and squats…that works for some better than others in specific manners. [/quote]
Well with the way you do them there is a bit of a shrug thrown in there so I think that could be the reason for more trap+rhomboid activation.
At the MD seminar Dorian was explaining how the BBL row is a power movement for your lats, so you aren’t trying to get a squeeze, that’s why he would pre-fatigue his lats first with pullovers (squeezing ALOT), then do the BBL row.
I always feel deadlifts variations more in my rhombs, traps, and rear delts, than in my lower back. And whenever attempting bigger lifts (2-3 rep max) my upper back always “rounds forward”, whereas I can keep my arch in the lower. I guess my upper back strength SUCKS
ok did my back workout it went like this: (i named what i did on the top set)
pullups- (sets until 15, two or three at a time)
bb rows to the beltline (bent slightly, between straight up and 45 degrees)- 165 6 reps
one arm db rows (neutral grip, bent over lil more than 45 degrees, rowing to the side of my abs. couldnt not do them!)- 75 lb dumbell 8 reps
t bar rows, with barbell in corner (3 plates bout 6 reps)
bb shrugs (180 6-8 reps)
…i then decided to do rack pulls but i coudlnt without a sqwuat rack, and in the smith machine they are akward, any other suggestions?
still trying to figure out how i can design my split so i can split my back workout into two sessions, like hungry4more recommended
[quote]kickureface wrote:
thanks h4m
should i continue to do the waist rows or revert to a more standard high ab row with more focus on the batwings[/quote]
I’ve never seen anyone but small people row to their upper abs, just sayin. DONT HATE THE WAIST![/quote]
I thought you rwo to the chest on pendlay rows?
or are you just talking about regular bb rows?
I have pretty wide clavicles and it’s a pain in the ass to get my traps up because of it. I’m still a beginner but my traps look like they’ve never been trained, yet I deadlift and rack pull heavy and do heavy trap exercises on another day of the week. When I shrug I usually go into a higher rep range (15-20) and I deadlift and rack pull in the 1-5 rep range. I pull back the scapulae when I lock out to hit the traps more, but still nothing.
Should I try other exercises or just accept that it’s a weak muscle group and beat the shit out of it 2-3 times a week?
id suggest on a movement or two for your back, come up high. Like cable rows or something, come up to mid chest area, and pinch it at the apex of the movement.
