Wife Kicked in Head During Prayer (Vid)

Off Topic
181

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i made my point about religion not working clear, at least i thought it did but let me break it down for you even more…as if thats possible:

if you don’t believe in a religion, presuming none of it ever happened and it is mere mythology, the religion doesn’t ‘exist’. i used the example of Santa Clause earlier, you can go back and read it again if you need to.

as compared with science which does exist regardless of belief.

[/quote]
“Science” is an idea, it no more exists in the physical world than santa claws, same with religion.

ACTUALLY no, not really. The earth travels in a straight line that is curved by gravity. Space and time are pliable in reality, not absolute.

That makes their beliefs wrong, not un-universal. Big difference. Science is constantly wrong about lots of things. Science is not responsible for systems, it just attempts to map them.

You need to study physics more. Scientific predestination, what you are describing, is precluded by the uncertainty principle in quantum. Matter is NOT exactly measurable or predictable. Atomic level particles do not have exact positions or velocities. No system in the universe is exactly predictable.

At the relativistic level measurements are all relative to perspective anyway. 1 foot is only 1 foot from a single moment frame, same with one second. In addition the physics of matter and gravity break down at singularities. For instance I can calculate how fast you would have to travel to make the earth flat. Our “concrete” measurements are at least incomplete in measuring any physical body.

I really don’t have the time to explain it all out, but according to quantum, exact knowledge, calculations, and predictions of a system are scientifically impossible.

If you are really interested in the basic elements of why all measurements and calculations are inexact I’d recommend this:
http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Time-Stephen-Hawking/dp/0553380168

Or bare minimum go look up the uncertainty principal, time dilation, and length contraction, general relativity gravity.

There absolutely is chance in all systems that is not analytically solvable. This is the scientific brainwashing I’m talking about.

Only if one of the fundamental principles of quantum is wrong.

There are areas the bible addresses that science hasn’t expounded on. Try things like morals and life philosophy. It’s still good stuff even 2000 years later.

[quote]

and did you just say you don’t believe in evolution? im just going to stop right here if thats the case. [/quote]

I certainly don’t think it is 100% complete, but that has nothing to do with a belief in god. You sound dogmatic and brainwashed.

Science and spirituality are separate areas. Science has never answered a single “why?” about the universe. It can estimate accelerations of 2 massed objects, but it can’t answer why gravity is there. It can’t say why anything is as it is. Labeling a phenomenon gravity and quantifying it’s effect on an object doesn’t answer why things fall in the first place. Same for electro magnetic forces, or nuclear forces or particle behavior, est. est. est. Science doesn’t make any of those things happen. Nor does it answer the basic human question, why. About ANYTHING.

Why does an electron behave as a wave and a particle? Why does a photon have a relativistic mass and not a classical one?

I can literally go on and on with “why” questions about everything science “knows”.

Maybe your thirst for understanding ends at a label and an estimated quantifiable, mine does not.

Science is a useful tool, but it no more satisfies my spiritual quandaries than a hammer.

182

ughhhh

and religion’s best answer is some guy made everything in 6 days, made a man, then made a woman out of his rib them kicked them out of paradise, yada yada

i think i’ll stick with the scientific explanations.

you sound pretty pompous to assume that man should have the entire universe figured out. we can barely figure out how to go about life on earth and we’ve been here thousands of years yet you’re unimpressed the entire meaning of the universe hasn’t been decoded withen 500 years meanwhile we just got color television 50 years ago. have some patience.

i also said like 1-2 pages back that the bible can be used for morals…did you just decide not to read that or what?

science is not an ‘idea’, science is when you are able to make the same effect happen from the same cause every single time. science is 2 hydrogen atoms plus one oxygen atom make water every single time. religion is god is feeling angry today so he destroyed a city. one is fact, one is fiction.

no, there is no such thing as ‘random’. everything has a reason for doing what it does. just because we can not measure it at this point in time does not mean it is immeasurable.

religion is nothing more than primitive science. i think you can be spiritual and scientific at the same time. but spirituality is not the same as religion.

183

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
ughhhh

and religion’s best answer is some guy made everything in 6 days, made a man, then made a woman out of his rib them kicked them out of paradise, yada yada

[/quote]
Religion or a specific literal interpretation of Christianity’s bible? You keep confusing the 2.

That’s my whole point, there aren’t any and can never be. Science by definition doesn’t do that.

Iâ??m not saying that we should I’m saying we can’t. Science doesn’t and explore the meaning of anything. Meaning isn’t quantifiable, isn’t testable, isn’t studiable.

I know I was essentially agreeing with you on that point. I was disagreeing with you throwing out the bible as a 2000 year old science book.

No. First, hydrogen and oxygen do not always for water. Conditions are possible to prevent bonding.

Second, That is the worse strawman I’ve ever heard. You cannot reduce a belief in god to one asinine statement.

Here, I can do it too. Science is the frontal lobotomy cures people.

As I’ve noted and shown time and again. There are no absolutes is science.

I’m sorry, but you are wrong. Quantum particles are specifically not predictable. It isn’t a lack of understanding or theory that leads to this, but the theory itself. Matter travels as a wave. Positions and velocity are bounded but unknowable in a wave. Our current understanding a theory says that it is never knowable as a fundamental rule of the system.

The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?

Stephen Hawking
Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?

Stephen Hawking
God not only plays dice, He also sometimes throws the dice where they cannot be seen.

Stephen Hawking
The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired.
Stephen Hawking

I can see the argument.

184

every religion states that a god or god’s in one way or another created the earth, people, etc

every religion is fundamentally the same, change a few names a few places but most of the stories are the same. so it doesnt really matter if i talk about christianity’s version or the hindu version.

you were talking the ‘meaning of the universe’ too literal. what im saying is that you sound like you expect everyone should have it all figured out by now. thats insane. we hardly know anything at all yet. which is just further proof of why religion is the furthest thing from being the answer.

don’t you think itd be a little odd that this god would have all this communication with mankind then suddenly stop? and that it would only be in one area?

come on man, wheres your common sense.

and yes, science does explain how the earth was created. it explains how the universe was created. it explains a lot more than the bible does. and it isn’t as far fetched. granted some things in the universe are strange and hard to comprehend but that doesn’t mean they’re impossible.

the bible just doesn’t do it for me. theres too much left out, theres much more out there. i view god as the force of the universe, as existence itself and all the things out there we still don’t know but are still happening. i dont believe there is a human like being who sits and watches over us. thats too simple.

185

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:

don’t you think itd be a little odd that this god would have all this communication with mankind then suddenly stop? and that it would only be in one area?

[/quote]

This pretty much.

186

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
every religion states that a god or god’s in one way or another created the earth, people, etc

every religion is fundamentally the same, change a few names a few places but most of the stories are the same. so it doesnt really matter if i talk about christianity’s version or the hindu version.

you were talking the ‘meaning of the universe’ too literal. what im saying is that you sound like you expect everyone should have it all figured out by now. thats insane. we hardly know anything at all yet. which is just further proof of why religion is the furthest thing from being the answer.

don’t you think itd be a little odd that this god would have all this communication with mankind then suddenly stop? and that it would only be in one area?

come on man, wheres your common sense.

and yes, science does explain how the earth was created. it explains how the universe was created. it explains a lot more than the bible does. and it isn’t as far fetched. granted some things in the universe are strange and hard to comprehend but that doesn’t mean they’re impossible.

the bible just doesn’t do it for me. theres too much left out, theres much more out there. i view god as the force of the universe, as existence itself and all the things out there we still don’t know but are still happening. i dont believe there is a human like being who sits and watches over us. thats too simple.

[/quote]

No scientific theory precludes god in the creation of the universe. Science make extrapolation as to what physically happened in the formation of the universe. Not why or how. Or what caused matter or forces. Science, when dissected is a very shallow understanding.

I see the bible as the more out there where science ends. I was trying to tell you there is so much more out there. To stop at what science can do is to leave out so much of the universe.

187

Here is something else interesting about the creation of the universe I brought up in PM with ninja.

Here is a little bit of a riddle for you if you are familiar with general relativity:

In the big bang all matter started as a singularity. According to relativity, that essentially makes the timeline of the universe discontinues at that point. Meaning nothing before the bang could physically affect anything after it. The possibility of causation is broken at the singularity.

If nothing before the bang can affect anything after it, according to the physical laws of the universe, nothing can cause the big bang (something sequentially before the bang resulting in the current universe). Something causing the big bang violates general relativity.

How then did the big bang happen?

188

At this moment I have exactly 50% of a bachelors of Physics degree. After studying " what is" I can’t begin to imagine how such complexity could appear by pure chance. There is a God and he is an artist.

189

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

How then did the big bang happen?
[/quote]

According to Family guy god chilling with his roommate and farted to win a arm wrestling match. After winning he farted again this time he lit the fart with a lighter and thus the big bang came to be. It actually sounds quite plausible considering the bulk of the stories of the bible.

190

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Here is something else interesting about the creation of the universe I brought up in PM with ninja.

Here is a little bit of a riddle for you if you are familiar with general relativity:

In the big bang all matter started as a singularity. According to relativity, that essentially makes the timeline of the universe discontinues at that point. Meaning nothing before the bang could physically affect anything after it. The possibility of causation is broken at the singularity.

If nothing before the bang can affect anything after it, according to the physical laws of the universe, nothing can cause the big bang (something sequentially before the bang resulting in the current universe). Something causing the big bang violates general relativity.

How then did the big bang happen?
[/quote]

One postulate about how the big bang started is the Oscillating Universe theory. Essentially the universe has always existed but oscillates from expanding to contracting phases. A waveform of expansion and contraction peaks and troughs, like a sine wave, only incorporating the entire known universe. Every time the universe contracts to a singularity, all the elements are fused and the laws of the universe are reset at each new big bang. This is an interesting theory, but doesn’t match the observation that the expansion of the universe in speeding up, so I don’t subscribe to this one. Just food for thought.

191

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

How then did the big bang happen?
[/quote]

i explained that on like page one dude.

wtf

the big bang was the result of strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetism and gravity converging.

if you look at the pic to the right im assuming those 4 designs are representations of the four fundamental forces and that hot explosion looking thing is the ‘big bang’

if you look at the next picture down, which i also referenced earlier in this thread, you’ll see the picture of the green/blue/red dots. thats the mapping of heat throughout the universe. i dont know a great deal about it but i saw it on a TV Documentary and they were explaining more or less that it’s like adding hot water into a cold bathtub, it takes time for the heat molecules to spread/dissipate throughout the whole tub it isnt just in one place. so that’s why the map looks the way it does.

192

am i the only one who thought she deserved it? kidding…

193

"

You cannot test evolution. You can test some fundamental aspects. Evolution is not a repeatable experiment. I just really don’t want to get into it. If you go search in PWI there are dozens of threads on the subject.

Yes, talking about god in reference to science. Science has nothing to say about god. "

Uh, we observe evolution in action. It has been repeatedly demonstrated in several short lived species, in lab and real world…

One of the foundations of science is Occam’s razor. Occam's razor - Wikipedia
So yeah, has plenty to say…

194

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
seriously?

the bible says thou shalt not kill

so im guessing you wouldnt read that then decide, i should kill someone.

the bible is an OLD handbook of various situations where people can read stories and try to find an interpretation in their lives from them and then seek the right thing to do. is that really hard for you to understand because it sounds like you just want to argue any and every thing related to the bible.

it sounds like you’re arguing just to argue.[/quote]

Fucking lol. Re-read the fairy tale book, then get back to me. It explicitly states what you should do with adulterers, unruly children and people who “work on the Sabbath”.

It’s a book with no purpose and isn’t necessary in a world with science and - gasp - logic.

But yeah, I am arguing just to argue, this is the internet.

195

Also, from another post, quoting selectively from Stephen Hawking is fucking AWESOME. Here, have another quote from him - on the house.

‘It is better not to use the word “god” to describe what I believe because most people use the word to mean a being with whom one can have a personal relationship.’

When asked if he sensed a connection between how the universe operates and why it exists, he replied:

‘I don’t. If I did, I would have solved the universe.’

Oh shit, I just gave you two quotes.

Just because science can’t pinpoint how the Big Bang occurred, that doesn’t mean hocus pocus has to fill that void. The fact that this sheer stupidity enters public discourse is hilarious. Insanity in numbers is naught but religion. And even if you go as far as to distance yourself from organized religion, there is absolutely NO reason to believe in a personal “God” other than fear of the the unknown.

196

[quote]NinjaTreeFrog wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Here is something else interesting about the creation of the universe I brought up in PM with ninja.

Here is a little bit of a riddle for you if you are familiar with general relativity:

In the big bang all matter started as a singularity. According to relativity, that essentially makes the timeline of the universe discontinues at that point. Meaning nothing before the bang could physically affect anything after it. The possibility of causation is broken at the singularity.

If nothing before the bang can affect anything after it, according to the physical laws of the universe, nothing can cause the big bang (something sequentially before the bang resulting in the current universe). Something causing the big bang violates general relativity.

How then did the big bang happen?

One postulate about how the big bang started is the Oscillating Universe theory. Essentially the universe has always existed but oscillates from expanding to contracting phases. A waveform of expansion and contraction peaks and troughs, like a sine wave, only incorporating the entire known universe. Every time the universe contracts to a singularity, all the elements are fused and the laws of the universe are reset at each new big bang. This is an interesting theory, but doesn’t match the observation that the expansion of the universe in speeding up, so I don’t subscribe to this one. Just food for thought.[/quote]

Yes, I’m aware of this. It doesn’t however explain the possibility of expansion from a singularity. And by the way, according to current calculations on universe density and expansion velocity, we are past escape velocity and the universe should never contract again.

197

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

How then did the big bang happen?

i explained that on like page one dude.

wtf

the big bang was the result of strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetism and gravity converging.

if you look at the pic to the right im assuming those 4 designs are representations of the four fundamental forces and that hot explosion looking thing is the ‘big bang’

if you look at the next picture down, which i also referenced earlier in this thread, you’ll see the picture of the green/blue/red dots. thats the mapping of heat throughout the universe. i dont know a great deal about it but i saw it on a TV Documentary and they were explaining more or less that it’s like adding hot water into a cold bathtub, it takes time for the heat molecules to spread/dissipate throughout the whole tub it isnt just in one place. so that’s why the map looks the way it does. [/quote]

When collapsed to a black whole, it would take an infinite amount of energy to have even an electron escape from the gravitational pull. You have to understand that not even a massless photon can escape a black whole. To expand the universe outward would literally take infinite energy to overcome infinite force.

From your link:
“Shows slices of expansion of universe without an initial singularity”

Expansion from a singularity is not scientifically possible. Which is one of the main reasons I don’t think we really understand the beginning of the universe yet.

198

Here is something that will put it all into perspective. It actually shows us how insignificant us and this tiny argument are.

http://www.break.com/index/the-ultra-deep-field-in-3d.html

199

[quote]Pootie Tang wrote:
Here is something that will put it all into perspective. It actually shows us how insignificant us and this tiny argument are.

http://www.break.com/index/the-ultra-deep-field-in-3d.html [/quote]

I prefer the Monty Python galaxy song.

200

[quote]BrownTrout wrote:
At this moment I have exactly 50% of a bachelors of Physics degree. After studying " what is" I can’t begin to imagine how such complexity could appear by pure chance. There is a God and he is an artist. [/quote]

WORD. And, more importantly…

AMEN!