The first thing people tend to forget about when lifting weights is how your hormones are triggered. Squats and Deadlifts (as far as the entire body goes) produce the most hormonal increases. If you cut out the Squat and Deadlift entirely, you’re going to be missing out on some serious gains in hypertrophy, strength and possibly speed.
From what I know, agreeing with ProfX, it seems as though you are a begining lifter, or you have been working out for several years without a good foundation (of knowledge).
Not working your legs is a bad idea. Life in general is easier having strong legs, at least for me; where I work, all I do is lift heavy shit.
I had slacked off on them for a longggg time, but last year I really started loading the weight on them. My job is so much easier now- a hundred and fifty pound rock doesn’t break your back when your legs and lower back are stronger…I couldn’t see not doing them now. It seems to me that the things that beneifit me the most out of anything is deadlifts and squats.
I had to burst your bubble but most fitness models have legs. Look through a mens fitness mag and the guys in there have legs… some of them have calves that nearly match there arm size. They may not be that big but there body is proportioned throughout.
[quote]
First, I don’t need “fans”. I appreciate any compliments, but I am not here looking for a fan base. While your amazing 24" quads may have come without much work, that is a far cry from the 32" quads of many competitors. My legs haven’t even reached that and legs weren’t much of a weakpoint for me aside from hamstrings and calves. Your post would be very close to me logging on 10+ years ago stating, “hey, my arms are already 15-16”. Does that mean I don’t need to train them?!“. Can I quite training them?!” While my arms may grow decently, my goal as a bodybuilder is full body development. While one trainer may reduce training one stand out body part to bring up other, you are no where near the point in any aspect where that needs to be your primary concern? Why, you ask? Because you are a freaking beginner. You have no clue if your legs will respond and gain any more size like they may initially be genetically blessed with. What you start out with and your genetic potential for growth are two completely different things.
In other words, your legs may be alright for someone with only 15" arms, but they won’t be alright 2 or 3 years from now if your approach is to immediately being training with complete disregard for half of your body.
In fact, it speaks volumes about your work ethic in that you are just starting and already looking for ways to work less.[/quote]
First, I know you don’t need fans, what I meant was I like the way you think and respect your advice so was a bit suprised to be called retarded for apparently no reason.
Secondly, I agree that if I ever want my legs to be 32" best not to stop training them. But I’m not sure that I ever intend to be there [and you can call that ‘lazy’ if you like but I might call it ‘realistic’ given that I’m what I call ‘interested in other things.’] I’m saying that I’m content with the size my legs are now, and if 2 years from now I find myself walking around at a lean 205 having added 20 lbs to my torso I will be quite happy with my progress and believe I will still look balanced. And once I make it to that point I would start to think about continuing to gain both upper and lower. I’m not saying I never want to train legs, only that I am thinking of correctting the imbalance first and then continuing.
Lastly, I don’t think the ‘work ethic’ comment holds water. This isn’t an issue of letting myself work less but of working just as much with a different focus.
[quote]BigHog wrote:
I had to burst your bubble but most fitness models have legs. Look through a mens fitness mag and the guys in there have legs… some of them have calves that nearly match there arm size. They may not be that big but there body is proportioned throughout.[/quote]
Buddy, I agree with you. People with big torsos and chicken legs look stupid as hell. But my calves [16"] are bigger than my arms. And I’ve never done a calf raise! I’m not saying everyone should stop training legs, I’m saying that given a.) my possible hernia and b.) my predisposition to putting mass in my legs and c.) I’ve taken up running d.) I don’t think that having larger legs would make me look any better until perhaps I start weighing 220, it might make more sense for me to prioritize torso in the weight room.
–bf
P.S. I know i’m going to get ripped on because I’m ‘bragging’ about 16" calves. I’m not saying that 16" are anything worth feeling cool about, I’m just saying they probably shouldn’t be my priority given my small arms.
[quote]Lift4Life wrote:
The first thing people tend to forget about when lifting weights is how your hormones are triggered. Squats and Deadlifts (as far as the entire body goes) produce the most hormonal increases. If you cut out the Squat and Deadlift entirely, you’re going to be missing out on some serious gains in hypertrophy, strength and possibly speed.
From what I know, agreeing with ProfX, it seems as though you are a begining lifter, or you have been working out for several years without a good foundation (of knowledge). [/quote]
See the hormonal argument you make is the one I’m most concerned about. But isn’t the risk of training legs becoming unbalanced with a large torose. That is, there are hundreds of guys in gyms across the country neglecting their legs and looking stupid due to their large chests. But the point is that not deadlifting doesn’t seem to have hampered their chest growth.
And since it seems to keep coming up. I’ve been lifting for 1 year and have gained 15 lbs of mass while improving composition. I think my arms started at 13". I could do 1 chin up when I started and now I can do 11. I’ve stalled for the past few months but I believe that is mostly due to inadequate nutrition. I suppose to the massive guys with >10 yrs of training under their belts that counts as a Beginner, but if I’m a beginner now then I don’t know what I was a year ago other than a ‘skinny bitch.’
Instead of not training legs at all since there larger maybe you should just do low reps to work on strength once a week and then follow a heavier upper body routine.
Maybe a split like:
mon-chest
tues-back
wed-shoulders
thurs-arms
fri-legs and abs
with legs maybe just do a couple of doubles or triples with squats or deadlifts and then a hamstring exercise. then throw in a calf exercies. Just work them, maybe not with a lot of emphasis so when your upper body catches up you won’t be weak in your legs… if you get what I’m saying. Then with upper body do a heavier bodybuilding typer workout with more volume.
I think the question both brainfreez and myself are getting at is-what are the benefits of squatting and deadlifting to overall physique. Is it essential? Is it vital to a well balanced training routine?
The only answer so far has been(and a good one)
-The first thing people tend to forget about when lifting weights is how your hormones are triggered. Squats and Deadlifts (as far as the entire body goes) produce the most hormonal increases-
Are these hormonal increases due to squats and DLs neccesary? For a while, (until i hurt myself) I squatted and Deadlifted(not always heavy) like a runner runs-everyday. I did it under the belief that the hormonal increases(what are they, how do they work?) would greatly improve my upper body physique. Is this the case? What overall thickness do you gain from squats that you cant gain from other exercises?
BTW-I hurt myself because my hip flexors were too tight, placing an excessive lean and strain on my back(right now its a tight back, not serious, but im done with squats/DLs for now).
I will however sprint and squat occasionaly, but What I am getting at is-can you have a good physique without squatting? Does GH released from squatting really separate one lifter from another?
Let’s say that one day you feel like doing shoulders. How about standing military presses. Usually you’ve been doing seated dumbell but you feel like switching it up. You clean the weight…woah, that was kinda heavy, then you continue to press it and struggle to lock it out but do anyways. Next rep, same thing but OUCH, your lower back gives out and you herniated a disc. Why did your back go out? Probably because since you ditched working your legs your core weakened…ALOT.
Working legs is a great, for sooooooooooo many reasons, I won’t waste my time naming more than the one I mentioned above (lower back preservation).
Have fun rehabbing your back, and it will never be the same.
I guess it really comes down to personal preference. Personally I train legs twice a week because I like having big, strong legs. Most guys at my gym are only working on chest and biceps which almost challenges me to work harder on legs. Legs=65% of the body mass (normally). Freeze I understand that you feel your upper body is lacking, but if you want to become bigger and stronger, then build up your legs. 'Nuff said.
This guy, Poliquin seems to know a little about training…
Today’s training tip comes from Charles Poliquin:
15 Pounds Per Inch
Improvements in arm measurement are related to gains in lean body mass. A good rule of thumb is that for every inch you want to gain on your arms, you need to gain roughly 15 pounds of equally distributed body mass. In other words, to make significant improvements in your arms, you have to gain mass all over your entire body. The human body will only allow for a certain amount of asymmetry. If you devote your training energies solely to building arms, you’d eventually reach a point of stagnation because you weren’t training your legs. No wheels, no wings!
the only concievable draw back from lots of leg work (especially squats and deads), is a massive arse, i know this, my gf knows and the seat of my pants know this
[quote]chiefy wrote:
I guess it really comes down to personal preference. Personally I train legs twice a week because I like having big, strong legs. Most guys at my gym are only working on chest and biceps which almost challenges me to work harder on legs. Legs=65% of the body mass (normally). Freeze I understand that you feel your upper body is lacking, but if you want to become bigger and stronger, then build up your legs. 'Nuff said.
This guy, Poliquin seems to know a little about training…
Today’s training tip comes from Charles Poliquin:
15 Pounds Per Inch
Improvements in arm measurement are related to gains in lean body mass. A good rule of thumb is that for every inch you want to gain on your arms, you need to gain roughly 15 pounds of equally distributed body mass. In other words, to make significant improvements in your arms, you have to gain mass all over your entire body. The human body will only allow for a certain amount of asymmetry. If you devote your training energies solely to building arms, you’d eventually reach a point of stagnation because you weren’t training your legs. No wheels, no wings![/quote]
I think people are under the misperception that when someone says, “squats help you grow all over”, that they mean that by squatting, you no longer need to work your arm directly. Needless to say, there are a lot of dumbasses in the world. What is meant by that saying is your body grows as a whole. You won’t just gain size on your arms until they grow 2 and 3 more inches while nothing else grows. It just doesn’t work that way. The guy working on full body growth will see more growth in individual body parts than the guy ONLY worried about his biceps and chest. Not only that, but people who jump into this and never realize that they need to train their entire body will develop imbalances that will throw off their strength in other areas. I don’t know anyone who can curl an 85lbs dumbbell in each hand who has no back width and no shoulder development. You need all of that just to get the 85lbs in the air.
[quote]dr stig wrote:
I understand the point of the original poster to a certain extent, my legs are a whale like 31 inches round the widest part of the thigh, but my arms are something like one just over 18 and ones just under.
In all fairness, my mother is very ‘pear shaped’ and I get some of those gentetics, but my dad has got quit big legs too, but not my thick 'orrible knees. I don’t stop doing legs, just watch the volume.
BUT…I have bveen training a long time, it wasn’t a decision I came too early on, and everyone should train legs even if they are quite big naturally, because as mentioned it helps overall mass and vitality and stuff.[/quote]
Good points. And don’t forget performance and injury prevention.
Leg training really boosts my hunger throughout the day. I’m able to consume alot more before i have to force the food to reach my kcal goals, definiely more than the extra caloric expenditure from the workout. There are few greater feelings for me than finishing all of my friends’ lunches and still being hungry enough to finish my own.
Brainfreez, I know exactly what you’re talking about here – my measurements are the same (15" arms, and somewhat dwarfishly big legs).
I’ve been squatting and deadlifting, and suddenly none of my jeans fit. My legs look disproportiately large compared to my upper body as well.
A few pointers on this –
Get Diesel “Zaf” cut jeans. They cost 190$ US, but they have the space to fit your legs with a taper on the bottom to make them look even. Find the type with the wash on the top and darker colour on the calves part. You will look good in these jeans. Get a pair that’s tight on you, because they stretch like crazy (actually Diesel is good for bodybuilders because they stretch so much, so they grow with you). You can even get boots with a bit of a heal on them to make yourself look more proportional.
I swear to god man, your looks has NOTHING to do with getting girls. I do as well with women (if not a lot better) than any guy on this forum, and I have FAR from the best physique on here. HAA!! I bet if most of the guys on here saw me at a nightclub their brains would explode!! “HUH?!? He can’t get girls with only FIFTEEN INCH ARMS!!! It’s IMPOSSIBLE!!!” Getting girls is purely confidence and humour. The ONLY reason to lift weights is to increase you sense of power, confidence, health, and discipline. If I have dwarfish legs it means nothing to me. Build whatever YOU want to build. If you like strong core power, build strong core power. That’s why I keep doing legs no matter the result to my looks – I want POWER. Looking better will NOT get me more girls. Having more power WILL, because my confidence goes up and up as a result.
Because I’m doing cardio, I’ve layed off of the crazy legs days I was doing a bit, but KEPT in the squats and deadlifts. I’ll go back to more hardcore legs when I’m doing 3 days a week cardio and not 6. But for now, I’ve cut down my leg work to just squats and deads because my legs get sore from the increased cardio. Still, I’m keeping the squats and deads cause there is NO WAY I’m losing all the power I’ve built. I’ll bring back the more hardcore legs days very soon. I want to pull like 400 pounds eventually, like the guys in the UFC article that was posted recently.
I find squats and deads very taxing and hard on my system, but I also think it’s part of what KEEPS my arms growing. My arms have continued to grow a 1/4 inch this month (I’m now 15.25") and I attribute this to basically annihilating my body day after day. I think that if you want big arms that just pushing your body to the edge at all times is necessary.
Man, dont’forget this – at 15" arms you ARE huge compared to most of society, and you are MORE than huge enough to have girls falling all over you. Go to a mall or even a club and see how you compare to the guys there. When you stare at pics on T-Nation all day it can fuck up your self-image. I noticed after getting into this that my body image temporarily went DOWN and girls were less attracted to me cause I lost a bit of confidence. Actually, that was GOOD because it motivated me to keep pushing in the gym. But now that I’ve cultivated the discipline, I’ve come back to REALITY. Stay disciplined and don’t settle for average, but don’t buy into the idea that you need to feel insecure for the next several years until you’ve gotten to the level you want because that’s ridiculous.
Don’t argue on the internet. Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics – even if you win, you’re still a retard. Life is too short. Prof has a certain personality and it is what it is… Whatever.
