The Smith Machine has it’s place in a training routine, no different than incorporating free weights or dumbbell work into your workouts. I wouldn’t advise on making the Smith Machine my primary choice, but I do not see anything wrong with including it in your workouts from time to time. The biggest problem I have with the Smith Machine is the false sense of accomplish it creates, since one can move larger loads than they could on free weight movements. This of course, does not translate to better overall gains. Just my 2 cents.
[quote]JACKED71 wrote:
The Smith Machine has it’s place in a training routine, no different than incorporating free weights or dumbbell work into your workouts. I wouldn’t advise on making the Smith Machine my primary choice, but I do not see anything wrong with including it in your workouts from time to time. The biggest problem I have with the Smith Machine is the false sense of accomplish it creates, since one can move larger loads than they could on free weight movements. This of course, does not translate to better overall gains. Just my 2 cents.[/quote]
I agree. The Smith is not inherently evil. Ballistic bench presses, jump squats, calf raises…these are all exercises that the Smith is useful for.
Machines (unless they are poorly designed/constructed) are a useful complement to free weights.
The problem is, of course, that most people use 'em because they’re easier.
[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
chiefy wrote:
Sorry to break this information to you… But… It’s been proven that doing squats in the Smith machine is actually NOT good for your joint health. And that leaning back in the Smith while performing squats is going to fuck you up eventually.
Actually,a good friend of mine messed up his knees doing a squat without a smith.The doctor said he had TOO MUCH pressure on his knees.
The smith machine allows me to focus on my quads and doesn’t put a bunch of weight on my knees or back.
I don’t care what has been proven.I know what works for me.
How can a smith be unsafe if you’re not putting pressure on your knees or spine?[/quote]
It’s unsafe because you’re keeping yourself in a set plane of movement which is unnatural for the body. You’re also not using any stabalizer muscles which in turn can cause future injuries. The doctor who said your friend had too much pressure on the knees is full of crack. The knees are designed to carry tons of weight. The TOO MUCH weight probably comes from putting on more weight than he could handle at that time and didn’t build up the stabalizer muscles first.
I don’t know why other people use the Smith machine but here’s the reason I use it. I’m a 56 year old, 6’4", 240 lb male with a history of back problems and, after 25 years of running, I now have chondromalasia (runner’s knee). I started lifting 10 years ago to supplement my running but…I would only worked upper body, mistakenly thinking that my running took care of legs.
About 5 years ago, I started working legs with weights as well; however, I found it impossible not to bend forward when performing free squats (or lunges) due to pain in the knees. Therefore, I use machines exclusively when working quads (smith, hack squat, leg press).
I have now dropped running almost totally and the knees have thanked me (noticable improvement) However the damage has been done.
I find the smith squat- although never a replacement for free squats- at least giving my quads another lifting option without the inevitable “bending’over” I do when using free squats. I can see noticable results visibly (size of my quads) and physically (easier to get out of a low chair).
Oh, the ravages of aging!
^^^ You may want to look into squatting powerlifting style. I’m 27 and have pretty bad runners’ knee, and while any close stance kills my knees, I can perform very heavy powerlifting style squats pain-free. You use more hamstring/glutes that way as well. If I want to hit the quads I will do bulgarian split squats.
There’s nothing wrong with using it once in a while to overload your chest with inclines or declines.
I don’t think too many knowledgeable people would claim it’s surperior to free weights, but if you are intellegent you can think up some good uses.
Here are some good uses I have found for it: 1. Split squats. Kills the glutes. 2. Heavy, HEAVY 1/4 squats. When I was an athlete there were stages in my training where I just needed to move rediculus weight and I didn’t want to be held back by limiting stabilizer muscles. Had already built a good free squatting base. 3. Rehabing a fucked up pec. For a few months I did bench on the Smith. It was helpfull not having stabilizers suddenly jump in and aggrivate my injury. 4. Shrugs.
A number of years ago I sustained a whip-lash injury. It now doesn’t hinder me much but regular shrugs can aggrivate it. On the Smith I can do them just fine. I’m not sure if it’s a stabilizer thing or if it’s the slight angle the bar moves along.
A few other points. regarding the study that proved the Smith is bad for you; there’s lots of crappy studies out there. And, even if it wasn’t a crap study, we have to know what movements it looked at. I doubt it was all movements. For those who think “a fixed plane of motion is bad for you” Absolute statements are a bad idea. There are always exceptions. In this case, plenty.
To the guy who found he could squat without hunching foreward on the Smith. You gotta learn to free squat correctly! I doubt you can do a decent Smith Squat if you can’t do a proper Barbell Squat.
Regarding ballistic bench on the Smith. I hate them. I much prefer Plyo Push Ups. On the Smith they seem to aggrevate my old pec injury. Plyo Pushups, on the other hand make my pec very happy. Also seems to wokr the Anterior Delt and Triceps better, too.
Rant over.
[quote]Stiggy wrote:
trap_builder wrote:
what are these uses you say the machines have? why would you totally exhaust your muscles with lower intensity in machines instead of free weights?
No, you do free weight barbell row for example then switch to the smith machine and do bent rows on that, immediatly after. You can train the target muscles more intesively (the lats) because the smith machine recruits less stabilisers than the free bar which can be limiting by this fact alone.
[/quote]
Barbell rows in the smith are great.
I really get the lats using it for this exercise.
The Smith machine was invented by a powerlifter named Smith (no joke). He used it solely for short range lockout movements.
[quote]stockzy wrote:
Bicep curls! No joke! i saw a guy doing bicep curls with a smith machine a couple of months ago! He was killin it!!![/quote]
Yeah, I saw this too. I work at a YMCA (I hate my life thankyou very much) and I always have to put peoples weights away (I double as a mom). People like to leave their 35# or 10# weights on the Smith Machine. It drives me insane. Then they move the sign that I put up on the mirror in front of it (telling them to put their weights away) so they can see themselves squat. I duct-taped that bitch right back up where I had it the first time. Damn smith machine.
DD
[quote]Cthulhu wrote:
Stiggy wrote:
trap_builder wrote:
what are these uses you say the machines have? why would you totally exhaust your muscles with lower intensity in machines instead of free weights?
No, you do free weight barbell row for example then switch to the smith machine and do bent rows on that, immediatly after. You can train the target muscles more intesively (the lats) because the smith machine recruits less stabilisers than the free bar which can be limiting by this fact alone.
Barbell rows in the smith are great.
I really get the lats using it for this exercise.
[/quote]
barbell rowing on the smith machine is a really dumb idea. the rowing motion is not a straight line.
[quote]Biggeezer wrote:
I don’t know why other people use the Smith machine but here’s the reason I use it. I’m a 56 year old, 6’4", 240 lb male with a history of back problems and, after 25 years of running, I now have chondromalasia (runner’s knee).
[/quote]
I have no idea why some big guys (over 200lbs.) have such a hard on for long distance running.
We are not designed to run for long distances !!
I can’t believe no one ever turned you on to rowing. Not only would your legs have been much bigger than a runner’s, but your knee joint would have been very strong (as it is constantly getting worked) but yet not fucked up because it’s not taking the constant pounding.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
Stiggy wrote:
trap_builder wrote:
what are these uses you say the machines have? why would you totally exhaust your muscles with lower intensity in machines instead of free weights?
No, you do free weight barbell row for example then switch to the smith machine and do bent rows on that, immediatly after. You can train the target muscles more intesively (the lats) because the smith machine recruits less stabilisers than the free bar which can be limiting by this fact alone.
Barbell rows in the smith are great.
I really get the lats using it for this exercise.
barbell rowing on the smith machine is a really dumb idea. the rowing motion is not a straight line.
[/quote]
Great, the voice of reason.
[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
Biggeezer wrote:
I don’t know why other people use the Smith machine but here’s the reason I use it. I’m a 56 year old, 6’4", 240 lb male with a history of back problems and, after 25 years of running, I now have chondromalasia (runner’s knee).
I have no idea why some big guys (over 200lbs.) have such a hard on for long distance running.
We are not designed to run for long distances !!
I can’t believe no one ever turned you on to rowing. Not only would your legs have been much bigger than a runner’s, but your knee joint would have been very strong (as it is constantly getting worked) but yet not fucked up because it’s not taking the constant pounding.
[/quote]
I got into running 25 years ago when all my associates at work did. It was the fad in the early 80’s during the aerobics craze. I actually enjoyed it over the years (and still do) and ran in many races- nothing over 10k, however. At the height of my running I ws about 220lb so, somewhat lighter.
Funny you should mention rowing. I bought a Concept II about 4 months ago and have been rowing every night since. Much easier on my knees with the added bonus of bringing upper body into a cardio work-out. I love it!
Ok, Ok, the Smith machine does have its uses. After reading this thread I’ve decided that the Smith machine frees up the squat rack from all the idiots in the gym.
[quote]chiefy wrote:
Ok, Ok, the Smith machine does have its uses. After reading this thread I’ve decided that the Smith machine frees up the squat rack from all the idiots in the gym. [/quote]
You can just be like: “Could you please use the smith for curls? I need the squat rack.”
Problem solved.
On the issue of safety:
Power Rack w/adjustable pins = Safer than smith
Some idiots at my school were doing clean and jerks in the smith - I wish I had a camera.
I asked them what the hell they were doing, and they responded “clean and jerks, man” like I was a complete tool! Oh yeah, they were doing sets of one!