Yup. My past 3 grappling competitions I have gone into with ZERO grappling training
I meant that have to do those movements as part of powerlifting. To improve their total they may use supplemental lifts. Bad punctuation.
Not sure if I did read this right, but nothing else is hypertrophy training except bodybuilding? Even if the training causes hypertrophy?
I think the claim hypertrophy oriented training counts as a bodybuilding even though one would not compete is easier to accept than this one.
But again, only in the competition. On that we agree.
This is a fantastic level of disagreeable agreement
Sets of 8-10 near failure in squats is bodybuilding due to more effective reps. I like to go closer to 12 reps
This was one of the most effective strongman programs I ever ran…
It’s not that nothing else is hypertrophy training except for bodybuilding, it’s that it would be an injustice to hypertrophy to say otherwise. It’s like saying olympic lifting can also be calisthenics and cross fit since they can also build strength. It muddies the water and causes people to take a mixed-bag approach to their training.
I agree, though I insist on 10 reps as a firm floor for building thigh size. All ten of those reps have the same tempo.
The mathematician in me prefers base 10.
Thanks for your replies. I agree, only in part, and will also answer them in sequence.
- “Where you stand depends on where you sit”; your position and experiences inform your view. I started lifting before T-Nation came along as a reliable source of info. Before, all you had was magazines giving generally poor advice and where every lifter clearly used. I started lifting without knowing much at all; my best source was the wonderful “Gold’s Gym Guide For Athletes” book which had good general and sport-specific routines (for the time) but did not bother to mention deadlifting at all. After T-Nation, I chased both numbers and better composition, but not size. After decades, the numbers stopped growing up but my body became much bigger with a better diet. Most lifters are not purists. Many powerlifters expand their repetoire as they age and still seek to progress when setting records is more difficult.
- I lift weights after decades since I love being in the gym, it acts to relieve stress, I eat and sleep better, my cells stay younger, my old age will be healthier, I will live longer, strength is functional… I could list a dozen more. You are not wrong, but you can only speak for yourself.
- I agree most advice is poor, and that from users even more so to naturals like myself.
- There are ways that are better or worse, and ones that are closer to optimal for a given person. Even that person needs to change things around a few times a year. For hypertrophy, or any other pure or mixed goal.
- Sure. I agree.
- Force is mass times acceleration. You overcome gravity by lifting heavy, lifting fast, or various combinations. How you do this determines what muscle fibres dominate. Succeeding in specific sports might require different fibre ratios. But the fibres from lifting heavy and lifting high volume at moderate weight differ because of the lifting heavy part. Bodybuilders and most people should do both.
- To some extent, but the similarities are more than the differences.
- I get it. It’s still a great line.
- Sure. But 12 reps at 500 does feel different and will eventually affect recovery times. So will age, and other life commitments.
- I agree many more exercises are needed for complete development.
- I used to feel the same way. I now feel I can get the benefits but improve recovery times by merely approaching failure.
- People care about a lot of things they claim to be unaffected by. Though I largely agree with you.
- It implies some ways work and others don’t. What worked the best for me three years ago might not be the best choice now. Really good is almost as good as optimal, for most people, and even optimal is not usually optimal.
- Are you trying to impress others in the gym, fellow athletes, or others? I see your point, though.
- It does need to be refined, but is still decent advice, realizing pithy summaries need considerable elucidation. I got strong without changing my scale weight - for ten years. Now I am stronger and bigger. You do not need to be maximal size to be very strong, but your bench will go up if you grow, which as you say might not matter, or be the ultimate goal.
I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for your post.
Wanna see olympic lifting be strongman?
My main thing is keeping bodybuilding, powerlifting, olympic lifting, strongman, etc. all separate from one another in their own categories to preserve the uniqueness of each one. To say that “well, you can build some muscle with powerlifting” would be an injustice to both powerlifting and bodybuilding. It’s more of a contrarian statement than anything, it’s not the norm and it causes further confusion for people who only want to focus on one thing. The mentality that it’s possible to gain some muscle with powerlifting and bodybuilding is just “fluff and pump” is exactly what leads to people like Rippetoe claiming that deadlifts will blow up your calves and or rows blowing up your arms. The result is people treating isolation exercises like “accessories” of lesser importance and you can see it when they half ass the curls at the end of their workout after hitting the compounds, and then they wonder why their arms are lagging.
This mixed-bag approach causes a lot of people to spin their wheels
This is a silly thing to say, because powerlifting is the competition: NOT the training method.
You keep wanting it to be otherwise for the sake of a strawman.
Rippetoe is a silly man who coaches no one: I don’t know why you bring him up so much.
Or a strongman doing crossdfit:
It’s almost like the training for strength sports allows you a broad skillset that can allow you to be successful in a variety of physical pursuits including powerlifting, CrossFit or bodybuilding, maybe the minutiae doesn’t really matter than much.
But yes Starting strength is an awful bodybuilding program, because it was never intended to be one.
Powerlifting is both the competition and training method. Top level powerlifters have their own unique powerlifting training to get there whereas if they did pure bodybuilding, they would sell themselves extremely short. You got Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1, Jonnie Candito’s 6-Week, GZCLP, the Bulgarian Method. These are are very powerlifting-centric
These two sentences can’t co-exist in the same universe.
This was my thought exactly. Dudes see Rip speak on youtube and get all fired up because of how he shares his opinions. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard him say starting strength had anything to do with bodybuilding. On the contrary, every time I see him interviewed he says “build strength” about 30 times.
You got Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1, Jonnie Candito’s 6-Week, GZCLP, the Bulgarian Method, Sheiko. These are all designed with powerlifting in mind
Jim has said MANY times that 5/3/1 is NOT a powerlifting program
You are out of your depth when you try to discuss powerlifting. By your own account, you have never done it before. Surely you see how silly it is that you try to define it.
I like Rippetoe. He is at his best when discussing how new lifters can put on some initial muscle to better play football. Never read nor heard about him mentioning bodybuilding in his books. He did say that thinking about any specific muscle is unhelpful, stressing movements. But bodybuilders surely care about proportions and thus specific muscles.