Why Not The Fate Of Europe?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

I posted this in a different thread, but then thought it may be standalone thread:

I just want one simple question answered by the Left among us - if we emulate Europe’s entitlement model, why will our outcome be different than that of Europe’s?

We had unsustainable entitlements before Obamacare that require immense reform (Social Security, Medicare). Left-wing, coastal Democrats decide to pile another (Affordable Care Act) unsustainable program on top of all the others. Now we have a fairly close approximation to Europe’s cradle-to-grave entitlement state.

Witness Europe. The entitlements and obligations are basically swallowing the Eurozone whole. Europe is on the brink of financial catastrophe. Painful austerity cuts have to take place. Disgruntled citizens are taking to the streets in anger. It’s a metldown - all caused by overcommitted, unsustainable entitlements that have finally come to roost.

So - what will spare the US the same as Europe’s? Why will our outcome be different?

I’ve never heard an answer to this question, and I’d like to hear one.

2

Which Country in the EU and which problem in which country? The question is way to broad

3

There are differences:

First the ECB is not as monolothic as the Fed and the hard money fraction still has enough traction to prevent the worst.

Then, we are as a whole not a block like the US, we can cut Greece loose, you wont do that with California.

With the wars and the military and all you are actually deeper in the hole, not only because it costs money, a lot, but because no party can cut either social programs or the military without having their own sacred cows slaughtered.

Also, Germany exports like crazy and Austria has actually halved her trade deficit the last 2-3 years.

So, some countries are actually doing great because the rest of the world is so fucked up.

Will we go broke eventually?

Yes.

But not as soon as the US trying to pile a welfare state on top of an unsustainable empire.

Also, we are largely homogenous societies, we all do speak the same language(s), we have the same skin color, religion and so on.

The US population is rather diverse and identity politics and the semi fascist/socialist approach to see anyone as part of a group instead of an individual reinforcing that, you are in very real danger of a balkanization process if your credit card gets revoked.

4

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Which Country in the EU and which problem in which country? The question is way to broad [/quote]

If we go the road we are on down further (USE, yuck) we might stand or fall all together.

Thank God for nationalism, its about time it serves some useful purpose.

5

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Which Country in the EU and which problem in which country? The question is way to broad [/quote]

No, it isn’t - the Eurozone is an amalgamation of European countries linked by a single currency (and theoretically, policy). Try again.

6

[quote]orion wrote:

There are differences:

First the ECB is not as monolothic as the Fed and the hard money fraction still has enough traction to prevent the worst.

Then, we are as a whole not a block like the US, we can cut Greece loose, you wont do that with California.

With the wars and the military and all you are actually deeper in the hole, not only because it costs money, a lot, but because no party can cut either social programs or the military without having their own sacred cows slaughtered.

Also, Germany exports like crazy and Austria has actually halved her trade deficit the last 2-3 years.

So, some countries are actually doing great because the rest of the world is so fucked up.

Will we go broke eventually?

Yes.

But not as soon as the US trying to pile a welfare state on top of an unsustainable empire.

Also, we are largely homogenous societies, we all do speak the same language(s), we have the same skin color, religion and so on.

The US population is rather diverse and identity politics and the semi fascist/socialist approach to see anyone as part of a group instead of an individual reinforcing that, you are in very real danger of a balkanization process if your credit card gets revoked. [/quote]

As I read your analysis, it appears you believe the US is on a worse trajectory than the Eurozone.

As such, the fate of the US is not the same as the Eurozone’s - it’s worse.

7

Military spending is an entitlement program.

8

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

There are differences:

First the ECB is not as monolothic as the Fed and the hard money fraction still has enough traction to prevent the worst.

Then, we are as a whole not a block like the US, we can cut Greece loose, you wont do that with California.

With the wars and the military and all you are actually deeper in the hole, not only because it costs money, a lot, but because no party can cut either social programs or the military without having their own sacred cows slaughtered.

Also, Germany exports like crazy and Austria has actually halved her trade deficit the last 2-3 years.

So, some countries are actually doing great because the rest of the world is so fucked up.

Will we go broke eventually?

Yes.

But not as soon as the US trying to pile a welfare state on top of an unsustainable empire.

Also, we are largely homogenous societies, we all do speak the same language(s), we have the same skin color, religion and so on.

The US population is rather diverse and identity politics and the semi fascist/socialist approach to see anyone as part of a group instead of an individual reinforcing that, you are in very real danger of a balkanization process if your credit card gets revoked. [/quote]

As I read your analysis, it appears you believe the US is on a worse trajectory than the Eurozone.

As such, the fate of the US is not the same as the Eurozone’s - it’s worse.[/quote]

I think the US will hit the wall sooner and harder.

I also believe it will recover a lot better.

You are pretty much the only nation were people rose up to demand less government goodies.

One can make fun of people that cling to guns and religion all day long, but in the end, either is more reliable than a politicians promise.

9

I thought it was the financial crisis who left europa in the state it is now, not entitlement programs.

10

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Which Country in the EU and which problem in which country? The question is way to broad [/quote]

No, it isn’t - the Eurozone is an amalgamation of European countries linked by a single currency (and theoretically, policy). Try again.[/quote]

No what isn’t ? The problems in Germany are different than the problems in Greece

11

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Military spending is an entitlement program. [/quote]

so is the war on drugs

12

[quote]florelius wrote:
I thought it was the financial crisis who left europa in the state it is now, not entitlement programs.

[/quote]

it is

13

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

There are differences:

First the ECB is not as monolothic as the Fed and the hard money fraction still has enough traction to prevent the worst.

Then, we are as a whole not a block like the US, we can cut Greece loose, you wont do that with California.

With the wars and the military and all you are actually deeper in the hole, not only because it costs money, a lot, but because no party can cut either social programs or the military without having their own sacred cows slaughtered.

Also, Germany exports like crazy and Austria has actually halved her trade deficit the last 2-3 years.

So, some countries are actually doing great because the rest of the world is so fucked up.

Will we go broke eventually?

Yes.

But not as soon as the US trying to pile a welfare state on top of an unsustainable empire.

Also, we are largely homogenous societies, we all do speak the same language(s), we have the same skin color, religion and so on.

The US population is rather diverse and identity politics and the semi fascist/socialist approach to see anyone as part of a group instead of an individual reinforcing that, you are in very real danger of a balkanization process if your credit card gets revoked. [/quote]

As I read your analysis, it appears you believe the US is on a worse trajectory than the Eurozone.

As such, the fate of the US is not the same as the Eurozone’s - it’s worse.[/quote]

I think the US will hit the wall sooner and harder.

I also believe it will recover a lot better.

You are pretty much the only nation were people rose up to demand less government goodies.

One can make fun of people that cling to guns and religion all day long, but in the end, either is more reliable than a politicians promise.
[/quote]

I agree with most bur disagree with the religion aspect .

14

TB:

I think that we are getting the “warning signs” pop up in States and Municipalities across the Country (especially in California).

Our current trajectory is NOT sustainable.

Where I tend to differ with people on this Forum, is that this is not a Democrat or Republican problem, but an American one; as EACH party has shown the ability to spend like Drunken Sailors in Bangkok. And the solution is not in "giving everyone what they want (politically)…but solving the problem.

CAN we have “riots in the streets”? Yes.

Did anyone see the vitriolic tone of the Wisconsin debate? What if you weren’t just talking about people’s ability to bargain; but also were cutting benefits across the Board by 40%?

And see what would happen to an Inner City if Welfare benefits were cut by 40%…

If we don’t act now, we are dooming further generations to a VERY unstable Country.

One other thing…CERTAIN Military Spending IS “Entitlement Spending” for localities and States. Just read some of what went on during the Base Closing Debates.

Mufasa

15

We are one nation under God, this is why we will not suffer the unfortunate fate of other countries. Why would he let his favorite country fail?

16

The way I understand it is most Police Departments are funding their budget with money from the war on drugs. Take away that and they will have to lay off Cops

17

as well as the warr on Terror

18

[quote]florelius wrote:

I thought it was the financial crisis who left europa in the state it is now, not entitlement programs.[/quote]

It’s a crisis because the (nearly immeasurable) obligations of the entitlement state can’t be met with the flagging economy and financial woes.

If you don’t massive liabilities on your books, you have some cushion when financial crises occur, and you can ride them out out more easily. That’s the problem of the entitlement state - it requires so many resources, and the instant there is a hiccup in economic performance, you are at the brink of a catastrophe.

The financial crisis is an entitlement crisis - which is why Greeks are taking to the streets and European countries are wrestling with austerity.

19

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

We are one nation under God, this is why we will not suffer the unfortunate fate of other countries. Why would he let his favorite country fail?[/quote]

My God, it’s true - you’re the dumbest poster on PWI. Congratulations.

20

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

No what isn’t ? The problems in Germany are different than the problems in Greece [/quote]

And the problems in Texas and North Dakota are different than the problems in California and New Jersey. But the nation sinks and swims by the same currency and national policy, just like in the Eurozone.