“Option One: A pound of steamed mixed veggies, 2 apples, and a sweet potato
Option Two: 8 slices of whole wheat bread”
Lame comparison.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Veggies and fruits are good for people. So are whole grains.
[/quote]
I would debate the second sentence. Sure, they are a source of starch, which, at times, can be useful, particularly for an active person who needs to restore muscle glycogen. However, for the average, not-particularly-active person, what makes whole grains “healthy?” Micronutrients, vitamins and minerals, antioxidants? Sure, they provide some of that, but fall far short of what fruits and vegetables can provide.
Option One: A pound of steamed mixed veggies, 2 apples, and a sweet potato
Option Two: 8 slices of whole wheat bread
The macronutrient content of those two options is pretty similar. But one of them is far more nutritionally dense and satiating.
Tomorrow after I train legs I will make my post-workout meal: 200g carbs, 100g protein, and “minimal” fat. It wouldn’t make sense for me to do that with all vegetables, so I’ll make myself an enormous bowl of chicken and rice and go to town. So, it’s not that I’m totally “anti-grain.” Additionally, it seems that dietary fat is stored much easier then carbohydrate as body fat when in a largencaloric surplus. So it would make sense for somebody in a heavy bulking phase to increase calories via carbohydrate and protein rather then fat.
I would say that whole grains are good… for people who need to consume a greater amount of carbohydrates then they can stomach via vegetables and/or strength-training athletes who need a “faster” source of carbohydrate to help with muscle recovery.
But for the “average” person, I would say there’s never any really “need” for whole grains, other then the fact that they taste good from time to time.
[/quote]
I have no clue where the heck you’re going with this!!!
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I have no clue where the heck you’re going with this!!![/quote]
My interpretation:
Grains are useless. They’re a nutritionally-void source of cheap carbohydrates. The only place place where they’re really appropriate is when, for whatever reason, your diet requires more carbohydrate than you could reasonably consume through fruits and vegetables, since their high water and fiber content would make you “full” before reaching your carb-intake goals. So grains have their place.
It sounds to me like someone not trying to sound “extreme” by totally throwing grains out the window, when they believe they really ought to. I say, it goes back to this idea of gradation, between what’s optimal and what’s terrible. Is a yam, or some other naturally edible root a better carbohydrate/starch source than brown rice?
Yes. Is it THAT much better? No. If you really prefer rice to parsnips, for 99% of us, there’s not going to be a noticeable different if you hit the same consumption numbers eating one of the other.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
“Option One: A pound of steamed mixed veggies, 2 apples, and a sweet potato
Option Two: 8 slices of whole wheat bread”
Lame comparison. [/quote]
Why? I think this highlights things rather well. Paleo is not low carb. It’s just anti-grain (well not just, but that’s one aspect). You’re getting the same macro-breakdown, same overall number of calories, but one version is nutrient-dense and the other is not.
So then it begs the question: why ever eat bread, when anytime you’re seeking a carb source, you could have a more nutrient dense, better for the gut, alternative…
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Cuz I’m a fucking minotaur!
[/quote]
Is that Minotaur reference from Role Models? Because that is an awesome movie.
Grains aren’t nutritionally void by any stretch of the imagination. Also, as far as carbohydrates being a non-essential, worthless macronutrient, I have to disagree. Since that encompasses starches, fruits and vegetables, I don’t see how anyone could make that statement with a straight face.
But hey, if you want to eat “paleo” go right ahead - not a problem, people should eat what they want/are comfortable with. And it’s generally a healthy way to eat for sure.
Just don’t go around like morally-superior nazis talking down to people who don’t believe that all grains are life threatening poisons. That’s where the problems start.
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Grains aren’t nutritionally void by any stretch of the imagination. [/quote]
They kind of are though. Compared to other natural sources of carbohydrate, ie fruits and vegetables, grains are fairly weak. For somebody who eats a decent amount of fruits and, especially, vegetables, there’s really nothing that grains provide besides “empty” starchy carbohydrate- which does have its uses.
I don’t think grains are worthless, but I do think they are worthless unless somebody is doing the sort of hard physical training that requires starchy carbohydrate to replenish muscle glycogen. And that is an important function, but one that I think most “average” people have no need of.
Have fun guys!
And keep thinking and mental masturbation–far more fun than eating and training.
Take care.
Brick and SkyNett can digest grains and that proves they are an alien life form. Cavemen never ate grains only the aliens who infiltrated our habitat. The cat’s out of the bag fellas 
I’ll argue with everybody again tomorrow.
KING OF OFF TOPIC/MINI HIJACK
Question for Brick… Do you have any pictures of yourself? I cant recall seeing any BB style pictures of you anywhere (but admittedly I havent really been looking) I know you’re not so much into bodybuilding now and more into general fitness but I’m interested to see what you looked like then and what you look like now that your goals have changed. I remember reading that you were a pretty big guy when you were dedicated/focused on getting hugified?
I got one pic on FB and that’s when I was considerably smaller than my biggest weight.
I wasn’t into taking flicks so much, so I got none from when I was at my biggest other than some in a shirt where I look pretty thick. Again, go to FB and you can noticeably see which ones I look big in and newer ones where I might even look SKINNY.
[quote]gregron wrote:
KING OF OFF TOPIC/MINI HIJACK
Question for Brick… Do you have any pictures of yourself? I cant recall seeing any BB style pictures of you anywhere (but admittedly I havent really been looking) I know you’re not so much into bodybuilding now and more into general fitness but I’m interested to see what you looked like then and what you look like now that your goals have changed. I remember reading that you were a pretty big guy when you were dedicated/focused on getting hugified?
[/quote]
Yo, bro. Your physique determines your scientific knowledge.
[quote]Josh Rider wrote:
Yo, bro. Your physique determines your scientific knowledge.[/quote]
While I understand where you are going with this:
Results do matter, and this is a board based on, well, training.
So in the end what good is knowing every text book and study backwards and forwards if you do fuckall with it except argue about trivial shit?
In this case, for clarity, training others to ‘exceptional’ results as well as yourself counts as not doing fuckall. (Exceptional is subjective, but assume reasonably above average.)
I’m not starting a stupid back-and-forth, nor am I arguing the point you are making. Your point is very valid. I’m just asking, at what point do you dismiss someone who hasn’t put any “book knowledge” to practical use?
Why in life’s other disciplines does pure academic experience get trumped by individuals with both practical and academic experience, yet in fitness, your practical results should be ignored? (I don’t know, maybe I’m looking at this the wrong way…)
(I’m also not taking any shots at anyone, so get your insecurities in check.)
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Cuz I’m a fucking minotaur!
[/quote]
Is that Minotaur reference from Role Models? Because that is an awesome movie.
[/quote]
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
[quote]Josh Rider wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
KING OF OFF TOPIC/MINI HIJACK
Question for Brick… Do you have any pictures of yourself? I cant recall seeing any BB style pictures of you anywhere (but admittedly I havent really been looking) I know you’re not so much into bodybuilding now and more into general fitness but I’m interested to see what you looked like then and what you look like now that your goals have changed. I remember reading that you were a pretty big guy when you were dedicated/focused on getting hugified?
[/quote]
Yo, bro. Your physique determines your scientific knowledge.[/quote]
Really? Isn’t it also true that some people have all the knowledge but don’t apply or use their knowledge?
“We know what to do, we don’t do what we know.”.
Also I think you’re statement is ass backwards, now that I read it again. But reading it in the right context what I said above applies.
“Can you do well eating grains? Sure. We have lots of examples of amazing athletes and amazing physiques achieved by people consuming cereal grains in large quantities. Was it optimum? No. Is there any reason, beyond that they just taste to damn good, to eat them? No.”
Explain how it’s not optimal, considering there are sports nutritionists and sports nutrition researchers who who have far more expertise in nutriiton than all of us here!
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Josh Rider wrote:
Yo, bro. Your physique determines your scientific knowledge.[/quote]
While I understand where you are going with this:
Results do matter, and this is a board based on, well, training.
[/quote]
Imagine Beans if someone with your qualifications or in your field couldn’t balance a bank book, had credit issues, drove a business and their personal wealth to bankruptcy? They would zero credibility for anything they said or advised.
[quote]Josh Rider wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
KING OF OFF TOPIC/MINI HIJACK
Question for Brick… Do you have any pictures of yourself? I cant recall seeing any BB style pictures of you anywhere (but admittedly I havent really been looking) I know you’re not so much into bodybuilding now and more into general fitness but I’m interested to see what you looked like then and what you look like now that your goals have changed. I remember reading that you were a pretty big guy when you were dedicated/focused on getting hugified?
[/quote]
Yo, bro. Your physique determines your scientific knowledge.[/quote]
I’m not quite sure if you are trying to make fun of what I am saying, implying that I am asking for Bricks pictures as a way to justify his knowledge base?
I know brick is very knowledgable AND I also know that he used to live the bodybuilder lifestyle and was pretty big (240+ if I am remembering correctly?) I wasnt calling him out by any means and I’m pretty sure he knew that.
So I know Brick was big and has changed his goals to more of a general fitness which is fine by me… I was just asking… But yeah I’m confused by your post? Not sure if you were joking or serious?
Not me-- bricknyce my bro thought he was logged on my comp
[quote]drewnycx wrote:
“Can you do well eating grains? Sure. We have lots of examples of amazing athletes and amazing physiques achieved by people consuming cereal grains in large quantities. Was it optimum? No. Is there any reason, beyond that they just taste to damn good, to eat them? No.”
Explain how it’s not optimal, considering there are sports nutritionists and sports nutrition researchers who who have far more expertise in nutriiton than all of us here!
[/quote]
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Josh Rider wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
KING OF OFF TOPIC/MINI HIJACK
Question for Brick… Do you have any pictures of yourself? I cant recall seeing any BB style pictures of you anywhere (but admittedly I havent really been looking) I know you’re not so much into bodybuilding now and more into general fitness but I’m interested to see what you looked like then and what you look like now that your goals have changed. I remember reading that you were a pretty big guy when you were dedicated/focused on getting hugified?
[/quote]
Yo, bro. Your physique determines your scientific knowledge.[/quote]
I’m not quite sure if you are trying to make fun of what I am saying, implying that I am asking for Bricks pictures as a way to justify his knowledge base?
I know brick is very knowledgable AND I also know that he used to live the bodybuilder lifestyle and was pretty big (240+ if I am remembering correctly?) I wasnt calling him out by any means and I’m pretty sure he knew that.
So I know Brick was big and has changed his goals to more of a general fitness which is fine by me… I was just asking… But yeah I’m confused by your post? Not sure if you were joking or serious?[/quote]
I know dude. I like you and I think you’re one of the best posters on here.
I just took it as talking shop. I was 245 at my biggest - a bit chubby though - not gonna lie.
I’m in agreement with Beans. Yeah, it’s great to talk all this scientific stuff and talk of “intolerances”, “from a physique standpoint”, and “optimal”, but after awhile that shit has to be cut out and people just need to follow a damn sports nutrition or bodybuilder’s diet and emulate the people who’ve done this before.
If you need to make adjustments along the way because of some stumbling block (eg, an actual food intolerance or allergy) or change in goal (eg, get big versus cut, run a marathon or whatever), then do it.
On the other hand Beans, people aren’t just talking about what’s best for training; they speak of nutrition from a medical nutrition therapy (MNT) “standpoint” (god I used that word). So being that I work in MNT, I’m inclined to engage in this sort of discussion. They speak of allergies, what’s “optimal” from a “health standpoint” and a “weight loss standpoint”. They speak of allergies, intolerances, the evolution of man, and so on.
If someone just said something like, “Ya know, I just like eating like this–the Paleo way, and I find I do better without so much starchy carbs in my diet while keeping calories the same,” that would be pretty cool.
But to go on with lame and completely impractical examples (eg, Who the heck wants to eat only chocolate all day; some servings of veggies and fruits verus EIGHT slices of bread) and state whta’s optimal and what’s not and the majority of people have intolerances to grains and dairy amd beans really doesn’t sit well with me.
Things don’t have to sit well with me, but being that I work in MNT in healthcare (did hospitals and outpatient, now a nursing home), I’m just inclined to engage in some discussion.
A product useless grain intake (up to 60% of the diet from starchy carb intake).
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I’m in agreement with Beans. Yeah, it’s great to talk all this scientific stuff and talk of “intolerances”, “from a physique standpoint”, and “optimal”, but after awhile that shit has to be cut out and people just need to follow a damn sports nutrition or bodybuilder’s diet and emulate the people who’ve done this before.
If you need to make adjustments along the way because of some stumbling block (eg, an actual food intolerance or allergy) or change in goal (eg, get big versus cut, run a marathon or whatever), then do it.
[/quote]
Sorry Brick, the question has bugged me for a while because even at 32 I’m still trying to fine tune what I’m eating. I’m taking off from the words “stumbling block” above and mine is Type 2 Diabetes.
From reading this thread and few other recent threads I’m picking up that (sorry If I’m oversimplfying):
- The calories and calorie deficit from basal metabolic rate (I don’t know if this is the correct term for the number of calories a body burns everyday) matters.
- The macro nutrients matter.
- The foods matter.
You can’t choose one because they ALL matter. (hope I’m right so far).
I eliminated the grains used in bread, pasta, oatmeal for the last 5 months. My blood sugar is much better. From fasted blood glucose of over 8 to 9 mmol/l down to 4 to 6. Reduced medication and testing around 6 to 7. I’m paranoid now to try those grains again. I’ve eaten some rice but it’s perhaps 5 or 6 times in total (that’s meals) for the same period.
The rest of my diet is meat, eggs, fish, nuts (no peanuts), berries, green vegies, cheese, whey protein. I didn’t want to label this as paleo or ketogenic etc - I didn’t even want to call it “diet”.
Just wondering if you had any specific diet advice to Diabetics? That maybe low GI was something I needed to watch carefully or take grains with low GI etc? Or pehaps my stumbling block is significant enough that I should reconsider grains altogether or even diary (because I’ve heard there is connection between dairy and insulin sensitivity)? Again I could be completely wrong. (in the past I haven’t been able to PM you when I tried so if you prefer I take this off the boards and on to email I can). Thank you.