WHY Isn't My Chest Bigger!?

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other thing is the definition people use of strength. If you add reps or sets, I consider that a strength increase.[/quote]

I got into a debate with 1morerep last week because he tried to say that a powerlifter who can lift a weight one time with a spotter matches the strength of someone who can use the same weight for 8 reps with good form and no spotter.

People are confused on that one because they want to be. The guy who can only lift a weight one time is miles behind the guy using the same weight for several reps on a weekly basis. The latter will usually also have the muscle mass to prove it.

42

for me its an ego problem (even though im a weak fuck) i want to bench in a style that allows me to lift the most weight (because i like it that way) but i dont like the lack of pec stimulation im getting. i guess what it boils down to is that i like moving heavier weights then i do seeing my chest get bigger.

43

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other thing is the definition people use of strength. If you add reps or sets, I consider that a strength increase.

I got into a debate with 1morerep last week because he tried to say that a powerlifter who can lift a weight one time with a spotter matches the strength of someone who can use the same weight for 8 reps with good form and no spotter.

People are confused on that one because they want to be. The guy who can only lift a weight one time is miles behind the guy using the same weight for several reps on a weekly basis. The latter will usually also have the muscle mass to prove it.[/quote]

The funny thing is that when you really boil it down 1 rep max strength is really only valued in the gym. If you go out in the world guys that carry heavy things (movers and such) or guys that can swing a pick axe or sledge hammer all day are the ones everyone thinks are strong (read functional strength).

Strongman competitions are designed specifically to test the overall strength of a person according to the most perfect idea of what strength is. How many events test 1 rep max? None anymore. They are all carry for distance, or reps for a weight, or at the very closest a pyramid progression.

44

Who wants to see a bar-graph of my chest growth over the past 19 months ?

PM me and I’ll email it to ya.

45

Prof X touched on something pretty good. Even if an advanced trainer drops weight to focus more on the actual muscle, it is usually after years of heavy pounding, which had built up a sufficient base. I’ve certainly done my share of heavy benches (385 at 180 lbs), and while I concede to putting on overall size (220 lbs vs 150 when I started!), my goal in the gym is much different now than it was 10 years ago.

Sento- You are correct, in that it was simply a dominance issue in my case. My shoulders and tris beefed up a lot quicker than my chest. In fact, younger trainees at my current gym are always shocked at how little arm work I do (I tell them that all the rowing and pressing I’ve done over the years has given me a good deal of arm size). Of course it is an individual thing, and my attempt to refocus the OP on chest DEVELOPMENT vs. chest strength may have been a little bit off base as to what I should have explained.

S

46

[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
Scott M wrote:

What other aspects of progression do you think are more important to a guy who can’t press 200 lbs?

Hell it’s been ages since I pressed 200lbs, and within the last couple of months I haven’t cared what weight I am pushing as long as I feel fatigue in the muscle, and I can feel the DOMS the next day ( I don’t go over 10 reps, don’t go under 6). My chest has grown visably. It didn’t grow much when I focused on bench strength.

Scott M wrote:
Do you really think flaring his elbows out wide as possible(hello shoulder and pec injuries) is going to make the difference for him over getting incredibly stronger over time?

I’m not suggesting to him not to get stronger. But I do think he would build up a bigger chest doing what I have suggested rather than just focusing on getting his bench as high as possible, assuming he put equal effort into both. I wouldn’t have suggested it otherwise.

Scott M wrote: Why don’t you think that the fact that everyone with an impressive (anything) is significantly stronger than they were than the first few months of training is important?

I never said I don’t think that is significant. You are putting words into my mouth.
But consider some people drop down the weight they use when they want to increase size rather than strength.

Scott M wrote:
If your gym suddenly threw out all the plates and dumbbells except for 1 Olympic barbell with 1 set of 45s and a pair of 35 lb dumbbells, honestly how much progress are you going to be able to make in that gym size wise NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO?

I’m not suggesting strength isn’t a very important part of progress. I just hate the hard on so many people claiming to be interested in bodybuilding have for powerlifting, and powerlifting training techniques.
[/quote]

So then if you don’t care about strength, and you consistently train using the same number of reps (10 reps or less) how the hell do you gauge your progress?

The only way to gauge progress “accurately” is by adding more weight over time or more reps with the same weight or even better more reps with more weight, otherwise what the hell are you doing?

How do you improve?

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
I think the other thing is the definition people use of strength. If you add reps or sets, I consider that a strength increase.

I got into a debate with 1morerep last week because he tried to say that a powerlifter who can lift a weight one time with a spotter matches the strength of someone who can use the same weight for 8 reps with good form and no spotter.

People are confused on that one because they want to be. The guy who can only lift a weight one time is miles behind the guy using the same weight for several reps on a weekly basis. The latter will usually also have the muscle mass to prove it.[/quote]

Are you sure that’s not a typo? Because that’s not even a debate, and it makes no sense. If the 1st guy does a weight one time max, and 2nd guy does the same weight 8 times, the second guy is way way stronger. No question. What was his rationale?

48

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
The point is, that everyone here but Scott seems to be missing, is that large increases in poundages on key lifts will equal LARGE INCREASES IN MUSCLE MASS. And this is a bodybuilding forum and we are talking about bodybuilding so expunge all the low 1-5 rep stuff out of your head.

The point is this: no one gives a shit how fancy your routine is if you aren’t adding a lot of iron to the bar over time. Some cat (guy A) who does JUST incline presses and some flat dumbbel presses will have a much huger chest than some other dude (guy B) who does all sorts of exercises, pre-exhaust, burn reps yo, and other shit if guy A is adding a ton more weight to his exercises and guy B isn’t (whether thats from all the volume in his workout not allowing him to progress as quickly as guy B or because he is more obsessed with the pump than actually lifting heavier weight).

Pre-exhaust and flyes and whatever are all great if you have trouble actually feeling your chest work during your presses. Other than that, for a beginner they are pretty much useless in comparison to just doing benching.

This whole obsession with dissecting routines so intricately and “should I give extra squeezes at the top for 2 seconds and what about flaring my elbows or keeping them in or whats the best way to superset chest exercises and I can only bench 180lb but I need a fancy routine with more exercises blah blah blah” is the reason why there is even this thread in existence. It’s the reason why we have people who are 180lb benchin and wondering “what is it that I’m missing?” and thinking that they are so advanced that they even need to be doing anything but lifting hard and consistently and doing the absolute BASICS.

It annoys the shit out of me (which is why this post has turned into a rant). I fucking hate weider and Flex for doing this shit to bodybuilding with “incredible new routine designed to add inches to your guns in 8 weeks; ‘keep the muscles guessing, and you’ll keep them growing’” and a whole slew of other bullshit advice not to mention bogus supplements just becuase they need to fill up their pages with something every month.

Stu - I understand completely your point and it’s a good one, but every newbie is going to read that thinking he needs all those cable and fly movements and he will add all that until he has 5 exercises and never progresses in weight on any of them because “Stu said it’s not about the weight, it’s about feeling the muscle” which is not what you were saying but unfortunately every newbie wants to think he is advanced and needs an incredible intricate program.

Back to my rant - I am so fucking sick of everyone preaching how “strength and size are so different, they are not related and for a bodybuilder strength doesn’t matter yar yarrr”.
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT 1 REP MAX, OR 3 REP MAX.
I especially fucking hate those writers who say, “here’s a set/rep scheme for pure size (5x10 or some other shit), and here’s a DIFFERENT one for size, and strength (because we all know they are different roll eyes) and this’ll be 8x3 because I have these stacks of papers from the new science lab, but don’t worry about me not even looking like a bodybuilder, or that no bodybuilders actually use my methods, I know my shit”.

News report: a 135lb ‘5x10’ workout ain’t gonna build shit.

OP do you want a good chest workout?

Incline Press - 4 sets, i don’t care how you slice it, your last set should be the heaviest weight possible in the 6-10 rep range.

Flat Press dumbbels bars whateveer - ditto, 4 sets last set maximum weight for maximum reps.

Repeat this workout every 4-6 days with the primary and biggest goal of adding weight whenever you can. Adding 100lb on both lifts is the day you will have a bigger chest.

OR, do this:

incline bench - 4 sets
flat bench - 4 sets
db decline - 3 sets
peck dec - 3 sets
cable crossovers - 3 sets

… and you will progress that much slower and have a smaller chest. But hey, at least the pump is the shit, eh?

But of course, not one beginner who reads this is going to like what he hears because they don’t like having to actually simplify things and WORK HARD to lift very heavy weight. That’s fine, that’s ok. Don’t worry about it. Because you can just turn your computer off and flip through Flex between your burnout set of concentration curls.[/quote]

owned

49

eigieinhamr,

Look at that guy in your avatar… do you think he ever would have been as thick and densley muscled had he not put primary focus on increasing the amount of weight he could use on key exercises?

He is a perfect example of a “power builder” if you need a term for it. Used strength progressions in a bodybuilding format and food to develop to his peak. No way in hell could he have been as thick had he done 225 lb benches to feel the burn or 315 dead lifts to not hurt his back. He was routinely benching in the 500s for reps and could pull 700+ lbs… is this sinking in for anyone yet?

If the guys with the BEST genetics and drugs need to do that to get to the top of their potential why in the heck would anyone think that they with average genetics and natural hormone production will be able to grow muscle better doing light pump work not focusing on strenght progression.

Flex Wheeler vs Ronnie Coleman, both have insane genetics and both use drugs(and don’t for one second confuse who used more-FACT) and yet one outmassed the other so much it was like a total eclipse. One of those guys pushed the limits with strength gains in the gym and the other played it safe his whole career. Flex was able to develop an absolutely fantastic physique but wasn’t one of the big boys, you don’t have Flex’s genetics… you will not be one of the big boys(natural or not) unless you start lifting some serious iron eventually.

50

Why do so many over complicate things?

Want a bigger chest?
Do proven exercises to increase it’s size, push yourself and up the weights when you can and eat a surplus of calories.

It’s proven to work “every now and then” :wink:

-to summarize many here -

51

There are people saying that bodybuilders are weak.

There are people saying that powerlifters are small.

When will the idiocy end?

52

I agree with Stu and Scott. But what else is new? :slight_smile:

I have the same dilemna as Stu does. My shoulders and arms have overpowered my chest since I became an intermediate. I have to do the same thing Stu does, a lot of pre-exhaust. My pre-exhaust routine looks like this:
Flat flies
Flat DB bench press
Incline flies
Incline Hammer Strength press

A lot of guys have this problem. I think at the intermediate stage, its not all about putting up big numbers in the big lifts. People need to start prioritizing weak points. My calves are dwarfed by my quads and hams. So I train them first in the leg work out. Does this hamper my squatting, lunging, leg pressing, and glute ham raises and leg curls. I’d say a bit. But its necessary to bring the calves up.

HOWEVER, if someone is a beginner and needs to bring their WHOLE BODY up, then I think they should be on an A-B or upper-lower split and just focusing on the big exercises. Like Dave Tate said “if you are so skinny that you can’t flex individual bodyparts - like do that dumb bouncing shit with your pecs - then don’t do isolation exercises and split routines yet”.

By the way, I think people have lost their fucking minds on this board!

53

For your average person, the trend I’ve noticed to be true 99% of the time is…

At appropriate weights per strength level and experience (and these are not 1RM, these are repped in a typical moderate rep range, and taking into account the fact that this hypothetical guy gets good pectoral stimulation from the flat bench - unfortunately, i probably needed state that)

If a guy is repping with a plate and change each side in the gym on the flat bench (135-205), his chest might look better than your average non lifting guy if he was lean.

If he’s repping with 2 plates and change a side, his chest looks decent, people can probably tell he lifts, especially at lower bodyfat percentages. You’ve become a master at the pec-dance.

3 plates and change, even at higher levels of bodyfat it still has most of that “plate of armor” affect. These would be pretty damn good pecs.

4 plates a side and on up you’re getting into the “holy crap nicely done” stage, very thick and full. You can probably see their pecs even when they’re wearing a sweater.

For me, I consider being able to slap on another 45lb plate to each side of the bar on my lifts to mean I crossed over into the next level of development. So that is where my focus is at.

54

I take verything I said back.

I have found the true secret to getting huge pecs.

Mix up chili powder, powdered egg and salt in a jar, and label it “Pixie Dust”. Now, before going to sleep tonight, sprinkle some of this mixture under your eyelids.

Wake up tomorrow with huge pecs, bra.