Why I Deserve to be Shot in the Head

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]Cortes wrote:<<< If God allows sin for the purposes you describe above, or, as I believe (and I’m not necessarily sure our reasons differ, except the perhaps you will say I’m still making it about me), so that we might appreciate the good (not having any bad would leave us with no basis of comparison, no fire to forge the iron of our individual selves), then what was going on with the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve? >>>[/quote]Revelation 13:8 calls Christ the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world”. In Ephesians 1:4 Paul tells us that we were chosen in Him “before the foundation of the world”. Peter tells us in the first chapter of his first epistle about " the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. He was foreordained before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you".

And there’s more. Regardless of every particular, anyone who believes the bible, is confronted with the undeniable fact that Father God ordained the sacrifice of His Son BEFORE creation so wherever we go with this, sin WAS UTTERLY CERTAIN from the start or God was mistakenly preparing for a non reality. The sum of scriptural teaching is that the almighty, all sovereign, absolutely uncontingent God rendered the fall of man into sin unchangeably certain without in any way being morally responsible for it by eternal mechanisms known only to Himself.

Why? My answer to Capped answers that. For HIS OWN GLORY. What does it mean for God for glorify Himself? To display His majesty, His Character, His nature, His power, His Godhood and utter kingship over all that is and ever could be. In short? To show off. To me that is the greatest, most legitimate, most positive and joyful reason imaginable for anybody to do anything. To glorify the God that I know intimately as Father, as brother, as bridegroom. Every morning I pray first that He teach me to slay the old me born of the first man Adam and live to the new me born again into the resurrection life of the last. I want whatever He wants. I abhor whatever He abhors. I live, love, breathe, eat, sleep, work and play for His glory because I know what I am, what I deserve and what He’s blessed me with instead.

God is not wringing His hands hoping somebody will believe Him. He is the omnipotent, victorious, triumphant all conquering King, who rules and reigns in heaven and earth. Sin did not take Him off guard “aw man, now I gotta come up with a solution to this or these creatures of mine will accuse me of not being loving?”. No sir!!! Every last single entity in creation from electrons, protons and neutrons, to the salvation or no of every human being who will ever exist has been ordained and ordered by Him, through Him, to Him and for Him for His own glory. I wouldn’t have it any other way. This was the gospel of the great awakening that led to the founding of this dying, debauched whorehouse of a once great nation. Look it up.

102

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
God wants you to have faith, not proof.[/quote]

Who taught you vocabulary? And, Jesus is a real person with real evidence. You can always have a ‘doubt’ that the evidence isn’t true, but that’s called be a skeptic or more correctly a cynic.[/quote]
Your argument is weak historically and theologically. Oh well, I enjoy many of your posts, I am not going to continue down this path with you.

103

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

This is why these threads are a waste of time. Curse you, Sexmachine, for luring me in here with the title.

The historical record of lunar landings is sketchy. There is no debating this point. The believers will tell you that it is intentional. NASA wants you to have faith, not proof. Only the ill informed and those prone to conspiracies like Christ existed will claim otherwise. [/quote]

Fixed.[/quote]
Yourarguments are usually funnier or more well reased. I should know better than to discuss religion.

104

Sooooo. have we detremined yet why deserves ro be shor in the head

105

[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooo. have we detremined yet why deserves ro be shor in the head[/quote]

I thought Austrians weren’t supposed to be light weights.

107

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Why? My answer to Capped answers that. For HIS OWN GLORY. What does it mean for God for glorify Himself? To display His majesty, His Character, His nature, His power, His Godhood and utter kingship over all that is and ever could be. In short? To show off.
[/quote]

Incredible what hubris it takes to first claim to understand that which is beyond understanding, to attribute a childish desire for attention to it, and claim that it is interested in displaying anything to you.

108

[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooo. have we detremined yet why deserves ro be shor in the head[/quote]

I’m a conservative. Isn’t that enough for you? What more proof do you need? I mean if Obama has ‘more power than Hitler had’ and I think Obama’s too soft, doesn’t that make me some sort of mad dog that needs to be put down? You know, for humanitarian reasons of course. Always for humanitarian reasons Mein Fuehrer.

109

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooo. have we detremined yet why deserves ro be shor in the head[/quote]

I’m a conservative. Isn’t that enough for you? What more proof do you need? I mean if Obama has ‘more power than Hitler had’ and I think Obama’s too soft, doesn’t that make me some sort of mad dog that needs to be put down? You know, for humanitarian reasons of course. Always for humanitarian reasons Mein Fuehrer.[/quote]

So, you totally took what Tirib said out of context, yeah?

110

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Sooooo. have we detremined yet why deserves ro be shor in the head[/quote]

I’m a conservative. Isn’t that enough for you? What more proof do you need? I mean if Obama has ‘more power than Hitler had’ and I think Obama’s too soft, doesn’t that make me some sort of mad dog that needs to be put down? You know, for humanitarian reasons of course. Always for humanitarian reasons Mein Fuehrer.[/quote]

So, you totally took what Tirib said out of context, yeah?[/quote]

I was quoting, talking to and talking about orion. I have no problem with trib, nor anyone here really except for the fruitcake in lederhosen. I usually ignore him but sometimes I bite on the hook, e.g. when he asks for a source for his own idiotic bullshit thus implying that I made it up or misquoted him.

111

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’d also like you to prove the historical account of Jesus death, tomb, resurrection, and martyrdom - plus James and Paul - to be false.[/quote]Why Chris? WHY?!?!?! Didn’t Jesus teach us in the story of the rich man and Lazarus that if people won’t believe the law and the prophets neither will they believe if one returns from the dead? Learn to choose your battles.
[/quote]

Tirib - question. If everything is decided by god, and exists to further his glory, how can there be sin? [/quote]To further His glory. Which it most resplendently does.
[/quote]

I thought sin, by definition, was going against the will of god.[/quote]

Here we go 'round the mulberry bush,
The mulberry bush,
The mulberry bush.
Here we go 'round the mulberry bush
On a cold and frosty morning.

Second verse, same as the first![/quote]

Exactly. Damn you for luring me into this silly thread.[/quote]

Forgive me for I knew not what I was doing. I also tried to end it on page 1. How many of these ‘atheists vs believers’ threads we got going now? Some of these guys just hop from one to the other like an obsessive compulsive on a pogo stick.

112

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Why? My answer to Capped answers that. For HIS OWN GLORY. What does it mean for God for glorify Himself? To display His majesty, His Character, His nature, His power, His Godhood and utter kingship over all that is and ever could be. In short? To show off.
[/quote]Incredible what hubris it takes to first claim to understand that which is beyond understanding, to attribute a childish desire for attention to it, and claim that it is interested in displaying anything to you. [/quote]Ya know you would have a point except that I claim understanding that extends no further than His own revelation of Himself. The hubris is in denying Him. What I understand about that which is incomprehensible to me is that it is fully comprehended by Him. I trust Him. This is called faith. You trust you right in the face of the utter absence of any reason to do so and that is called faith too. You can tattoo the scientific method and the laws of logic across your forehead and autonomously pursue knowledge for one trillion years and you will never EVER have an answer to the epistemological slavery you live in without even knowing it. I can hear your chains clanking from here while you peer out from beneath them and proclaim your freedom. Cackling scorn on those who actually long to see you free indeed.

You are not only in bondage to the delusions of your own deadness in sin, but bondage to bitterness, hatred and misery. It’s all over your posts. Repent, believe the gospel and watch the risen Christ pull those chains from your wretched soul.

113

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Ya know you would have a point except that I claim understanding that extends no further than His own revelation of Himself.
[/quote]

How do you know? Because you read it with your eyes, or heard it with your ears? Thought the senses couldn’t be trusted, Tiribulus.

114

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Ya know you would have a point except that I claim understanding that extends no further than His own revelation of Himself.
[/quote]How do you know? Because you read it with your eyes, or heard it with your ears? Thought the senses couldn’t be trusted, Tiribulus.[/quote]Oh no my friend. I heard His voice initially with my heart when He called me from my grave alive. THEN, what I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears made sense.

115

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Ya know you would have a point except that I claim understanding that extends no further than His own revelation of Himself.
[/quote]How do you know? Because you read it with your eyes, or heard it with your ears? Thought the senses couldn’t be trusted, Tiribulus.[/quote]Oh no my friend. I heard His voice initially with my heart when He called me from my grave alive. THEN, what I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears made sense.
[/quote]

How do you know you heard His voice with your heart? You must have used your dead fallen Adam senses to register His voice, right?

116

Chris, in all sincerity I encourage you to look up Historicity of Jesus on Wiki, read the page, and go to some of the source materials. You seem sincere in your pursuit of truth, and you spend a lot of time thinking about it, especially for a 21 year old. You said earlier that you believe the Gospels are some of the best historical documents, etc. and I really think you would be surprised by what you learn, if you are willing to travel that path.

I didn’t realize you had struggled with skepticism in the past, and felt fatalistic as a result. I think sometimes this is the result of black and white thinking, where people with a religious background are programmed to believe that any questioning of what they have been taught must result in ultimate bitterness, depression, and lack of purpose and meaning. I used to fear this myself, as a believer.

On the other side of the tunnel of sincere skepticism, all I can tell you is that this hasn’t happened to me. I still see beauty, love, purpose, and meaning in the world. I believe that my motivations are more pure, my commitment to love others is more sincere, and my desire to make the most of every single day and celebrate the people in my life, far surpasses what I experienced as a believer.

Don’t be frightened of skepticism. Maybe you’re not ready to ask the hard questions at this point in your life, and maybe you never will be. But if nothing else, at least realize that those of us who have can still find happiness, peace, and purpose in life.

117

Tiribulus,

I’ve just realized what I find most repulsive about your theology (i.e., your belief, not you personally). It’s not the maniacal conviction that refuses to acknowledge that it might be mistaken, nor the smug specialness it engenders for those chosen to be saved, nor even the denial of human free will and agency in the belief that our ultimate fate is completely decided by god.

No, it’s the deification of a being that is utterly selfish, narcissistic, and blind to anything beyond furthering his own glory. It sets Satan up as God. Most theologies, and indeed most philosophies and psychological theories of mental and emotional health, are centered on the principle of love. Evil and mental illness are defined as self-absorption and self-glorification. M. Scott Peck has a fascinating book called People of the Lie that you might enjoy reading. What I find striking is that the people he describes in his book are exactly like the god you claim to worship. They are totally self-focused, and lack the capacity and willingness to consider the needs of others beyond their own selfish desires.

How Calvin arrived at this theology is beyond me, truly. I’ve read the bible many times, and I think most would agree with me that the central tenet of the bible is love. Not just love for god, but love for our fellow men.

I doubt you will reevaluate your belief based on anything I might say, but ask yourself this. Is it really loving for a god to care only about his own glorification? Is it loving for him to choose some to save, and the rest to suffer forever, solely for the purpose of furthering his own glory? Is it true that the bible speaks only about loving god, and has nothing to say about the critical value and importance of loving our fellow men?

The bible says simply that god is love. Not selfishness, not narcissism, but love.

Think about that.

118

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Ya know you would have a point except that I claim understanding that extends no further than His own revelation of Himself.
[/quote]How do you know? Because you read it with your eyes, or heard it with your ears? Thought the senses couldn’t be trusted, Tiribulus.[/quote]Oh no my friend. I heard His voice initially with my heart when He called me from my grave alive. THEN, what I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears made sense.
[/quote]

How do you know you heard His voice with your heart? You must have used your dead fallen Adam senses to register His voice, right?[/quote]Nope, He raised me first. That’s the point. It is His gift, His choice, His grace and my eternal benefit for which I will live and die in service to His kingdom.

119

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< I doubt you will reevaluate your belief based on anything I might say, >>>[/quote]This is THE one thing you got right.

He defines what love is and praise be to His glorious name has He ever!!!

120

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:Ya know you would have a point except that I claim understanding that extends no further than His own revelation of Himself.
[/quote]How do you know? Because you read it with your eyes, or heard it with your ears? Thought the senses couldn’t be trusted, Tiribulus.[/quote]Oh no my friend. I heard His voice initially with my heart when He called me from my grave alive. THEN, what I saw with my eyes and heard with my ears made sense.
[/quote]

How do you know you heard His voice with your heart? You must have used your dead fallen Adam senses to register His voice, right?[/quote]Nope, He raised me first. That’s the point. It is His gift, His choice, His grace and my eternal benefit for which I will live and die in service to His kingdom.
[/quote]

How do you know he raised you?