[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Man is inherently evil. Man is born into sin.
Who wrote scripture?
Who decided which scripture was included in the Bible?[/quote]
Man is inherently evil yes. But what that means is that we lean towards evil tendencies. not that we are born evil. But when we develop enough cognitive reasoning abilities (age of accountability), then we are judged. And man always leans towards evil.
Man, through the inspiration of God, wrote the scriptures. Over a period of 1600 years and roughly 40+ individuals chosen by God, God revealed to his prophets what he wanted written down. All the things that were written were validated by recorded miracles (events occurring outside natural laws) and fulfilled prophesies, things that could NOT have been done by human abilities alone.
After the scriptures were completed, they were circulated as individual books instead of a whole collection of books into one volume (the Bible). Though the scriptures were completed around 100 AD, it wasn’t formulated as a Bible until roughly 400 AD. During that time, there were many impostor “gospels” that were attempting to be recognized as scripture. That is when the early Church fathers, through inspiration by the Holy Spirit, were guided into all truth and knew which scriptures were of God, and which were not. We do not know exactly what their criteria was, or if they had any. My belief is that there was no criteria, just direct revelation from God. All the books in the Bible have some prophesy in them, and all these prophesies have been fulfilled, so that may have been something that they looked at, though again, I believe that God revealed which books were to be included directly.
If you need any more clarification just ask, and if I don’t have the answer I will find one for you from a reputable source :)[/quote]
Hmmm…
A few questions to start.
1)ZEB said man is born into sin. Which is it? We are born into sin and are naturally sinful or we lean toward evil tendencies?
Next question:
2)Who were the 40+ individuals you reference and what evidence do you have that each was “chosen by God”?
Next question:
3)List the miracles that allegedly “validated” the scriptures.
Next question:
4)How were said miracles themselves “validated”?
Next question:
5)Please provide evidence that the early church fathers were “inspired by the Holy Spirit”. What is the basis for such a claim and what is the evidence. And, were not the Popes I spoke of in earlier posts similarly “inspired” or was that different? If so, do the “early church fathers” have more of a claim to “divine inspiration” than some of the popes referenced?
Next question:
All the books have a prophecy and all have been fulfilled? Please list the prophecies and evidence of their fulfillment.
Next question:
6)If God indeed did reveal which books are to be included, then why are there different books included in the modern day bible depending on the denomination of christianity? Did God err when he made such a revelation? If not, then why is there disagreement even among christians as to which books should be included?
Thank you for your earnest reply. [/quote]
I numbered your questions so I can just number my answers, for easier reading.
Well, lets see how I do:
1)Sin is simply breaking God’s law. The problem with this is that sin permanently “stains” us. Anyways, Scripture says that we are not held accountable for our fathers’ sins, and that we are held accountable for our own. A baby cannot sin because they don’t have the mental capacity to choose or reject God’s will. Jesus even called a child to him and said to a crowd that unless you become like a little child, you will not see the kingdom of God.
2)Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy = Moses - 1400 B.C.
Joshua = Joshua - 1350 B.C.
Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel = Samuel/Nathan/Gad - 1000 - 900 B.C.
1 Kings, 2 Kings = Jeremiah - 600 B.C.
1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah = Ezra - 450 B.C.
Esther = Mordecai - 400 B.C.
Job = Moses - 1400 B.C.
Psalms = several different authors, mostly David - 1000 - 400 B.C.
Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon = Solomon - 900 B.C.
Isaiah = Isaiah - 700 B.C.
Jeremiah, Lamentations = Jeremiah - 600 B.C.
Ezekiel = Ezekiel - 550 B.C.
Daniel = Daniel - 550 B.C.
Hosea = Hosea - 750 B.C.
Joel = Joel - 850 B.C.
Amos = Amos - 750 B.C.
Obadiah = Obadiah - 600 B.C.
Jonah = Jonah - 700 B.C.
Micah = Micah - 700 B.C.
Nahum = Nahum - 650 B.C.
Habakkuk = Habakkuk - 600 B.C.
Zephaniah = Zephaniah - 650 B.C.
Haggai = Haggai - 520 B.C.
Zechariah = Zechariah - 500 B.C.
Malachi = Malachi - 430 B.C.
Matthew = Matthew - A.D. 55
Mark = John Mark - A.D. 50
Luke = Luke - A.D. 60
John = John - A.D. 90
Acts = Luke - A.D. 65
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon = Paul - A.D. 50-70
Hebrews = unknown, mostly likely Paul, Luke, Barnabas, or Apollos - A.D. 65
James = James - A.D. 45
1 Peter, 2 Peter = Peter - A.D. 60
1 John, 2 John, 3 John = John - A.D. 90
Jude = Jude - A.D. 60
Revelation = John - A.D. 90
There are a few things to consider regarding the evidence that they were chosen by God. For one, we have the miracles which were performed, which a mere human cannot do on his own volition. These miracles had to come from a supernatural source (if there is a natural, logical explanation, then its not a miracle. Probability must also be taken into account). We have the consistency of scripture. Being written over a period of roughly 1600 years, it flows well, talking about God’s marksmanship, the fall of men and God’s plan of salvation. Peter never met Moses, John never met Jonah, yet they both talk about the same God whom revealed himself to them. We also have the authors quoting from each other. Jesus always quoted from the old testament scriptures, which means he regarded their Scriptures as divine, and subsequently the authors whom wrote them.
3)Of course I cannot give EVERY miracle (there’s too many), but the miracles usually included healing (people who were blind, paralyzed, unable to speak or hear, people with flesh eating diseases, people with severed limbs etc). Speaking in tongues (of a known language, so someone who WAS able to speak in that given tongue could interpret), raising of the dead, transformation of substances (water into wine, water into blood), and of course fulfilled prophesies. The likely hood that one prophesy would be fulfilled exactly as was predicted is an unlikely event, let alone several hundred prophecies being fulfilled that are recorded in ONE divine book.
4)These miracles were validated by the large amount of witnesses to them. I mean what else can there be? Consider that many miracles were performed in front of crowds of several hundred people, even thousands, thats pretty convincing to me. I mean if a crime is committed and we have enough eye witness testimony as to who committed a crime, its pretty safe to say that the person being accused is guilty. You have to also consider the time that they lived in. They did not have even remotely the amount of technology that we have today. There was NO way that any of them could have been a hoax when they didn’t have the resources to set up illusions like we do today. if they happened today, then ya, I’d doubt them too (and I do, from those who claim they still happen today).
5)The papacy is not Biblical and was not officiated by Christ, therefore none of the Popes were divinely inspired (i.e, given supernatural knowledge). I don’t have the evidence and as I said, I’m just using reasoning. That was most likely the last time God directly revealed divine knowledge so that God’s Word as a complete book could be made known to the world. But ya the probably had some sort of criteria as well, most likely the ones I mentioned earlier to AC.
6)This is a very great question. The books that some denominations use, such as the Deuterocanonical books that the Catholics use (aka, the Apocrypha) were never considered scripture by the early Church. Jesus, nor his apostles, nor any prophet, ever quoted from these books. When Jesus referred to the Old Testament Scriptures, he often referred to them as The Law, The Prophets and The Psalms (or Writings). Why? Because the Jewish canon was divided into these three sections, none of which contained the Deuterocanonical books, because it wasn’t part of their scriptures. I mention the old testament because Christian denominations only differ in the old testament. Not the New.
Did this help? Sorry for the late response. If you need something clarified just ask.
