Why Do People Use Religion to Hide Bigotry?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Attempts to criminalize infant circumcisions in San Fransico (repleat with a gay aryan comic book hero “foreskin man” leading the charge)

Forcing Roman Catholic Adoption Centers to serve gay couples

Forcing Roman Catholic/Protestant/Jewish Hospitals to perform abortions

Forcing Objecting Doctors to perform abortions in medical training

From Canada, arresting various Christian preachers for expressing their views (in their church) on homosexuality

On this forum, you had a gay PE teacher who wanted to force a Yeshiva (Orthodox all-boys religious school) to employ him so he could proseletyze boys he “knew” were gay to abandon their families’ religous beliefs.[/quote]

  1. Genital mutilation on infants is wrong. It’s not really negotiable, you don’t take a knife to an infant unless it’s actually necessary. If they want to sacrifice a whole lot of sexual pleasure to their fairy God later in life, that can be their choice.

  2. This is unquestionably wrong. They should not be forced to serve anyone who goes against their religion. Agreeing with you.

  3. Public hospitals =/= private hospitals. Again, agreeing with you.

  4. Kind of agree with you. If you object to it in medical training, you should not be able to work anywhere but a private hospital/clinic/etc.

  5. What were these views? I’m curious. Whether or not I think it is wrong to arrest them depends largely on what they were saying. For example, inciting violence would be a reason to arrest them.

  6. Proselytizing in any form is wrong. Also sounds somewhat creepy. Is there a link to a thread so this can be placed in context?

122

[quote]Makavali wrote:

  1. Genital mutilation on infants is wrong. It’s not really negotiable, you don’t take a knife to an infant unless it’s actually necessary. If they want to sacrifice a whole lot of sexual pleasure to their fairy God later in life, that can be their choice.[/quote]

But Mak, back-alley circumcisions! It has to stay legal for that alone!

123

[quote]pat wrote:
I have actually been mocked for being a Christian. So cut the crap.[/quote]

And one need look no further than this very board for proof of your assertion.

124

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I have actually been mocked for being a Christian. So cut the crap.[/quote]

And one need look no further than this very board for proof of your assertion.[/quote]

It’s not a big deal when anonymous people you’ll never meet are insulting other anonymous people they will never meet.

It’s a much bigger deal when you’re trying to hold down a business, for example.

125

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

  1. Genital mutilation on infants is wrong. It’s not really negotiable, you don’t take a knife to an infant unless it’s actually necessary. If they want to sacrifice a whole lot of sexual pleasure to their fairy God later in life, that can be their choice.[/quote]

But Mak, back-alley circumcisions! It has to stay legal for that alone! [/quote]

He’s not saying make it illegal, he’s saying don’t force infants into it. It’s not legal to chop off the top of an adults dick without their consent, regardless of if they understand what circumcision is or not, so why is it okay to do to infants?

126

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I have actually been mocked for being a Christian. So cut the crap.[/quote]

And one need look no further than this very board for proof of your assertion.[/quote]

…And the same is true the other way on these boards. Any mention of issues concerning atheists, several theists on this board choose to mock us for no apparent reason.

127

I don’t think circumcision is wrong but it’s unnecessary. If theists want to cut off their child’s foreskin I see no problem with it.

128

I’m not only an atheist, i’m a french, socialist and fornicating one.
Yet, strangely, i can’t remember having been mocked by theists on this board.

maybe i’m doing something wrong.

because, if we are speaking about infants, it’s the parents’s consent that is relevant, not the infant’s one.
at least in our western legal system,

129

[quote]kamui wrote:
because, if we are speaking about infants, it’s the parents’s consent that is relevant, not the infant’s one.
at least in our western legal system,[/quote]

No doubt. I do wish, though, that our society had a little more respect for young children as individuals.

130

[quote]forlife wrote:

We’re making progress. The majority of Americans now support gay marriage,[/quote]

False Every time that there is a referendum on gay marriage in a particular state it is soundly defeated!

But they did it mostly through judicial process against the will of the people. And the overwhelming majority of states have NOT legalized gay marriage. And in fact have built into their state constitutions language that would forbid homosexual marrying.

Against the will of the majority of General’s who said it was a bad idea. But Obama pushed it through.

Once again the judiciary attempting to push its will on the people. But I doubt it will be over turned anyway.

If you think that homosexual marriage will ever be fully accepted by the majority of people in your lifetime you are smoking things that you shouldn’t be smoking.

131

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
This thread delivers, and continues to illustrate why I have only replied sarcastically so far.

The non-christians that have posted here so far (not all of you, but many) certainly do not sound like paragons of non-bigotry, from where I’m sitting. I’d fear for my safety if some of you guys were in the majority. [/quote]

Really, it’s like we are pointing a gun at them and saying YOU MUST BELIEVE! They have free will so go be non-believers. What part about being a non believer gives you the right to constantly attack Christians? Some of you go at it as if it’s your job. It’s almost like their just a tad bit insecure about their decision.

[/quote]

Well, I can tell you I debate here because I’m used to debating competitively. I was actually hopping there would be more political debates, but hey religion is what I got.[/quote]

Well good for you Sparky! Wow competitively too huh? Well I’m impressed.

132

[quote]kamui wrote:

I’m not only an atheist, i’m a french, socialist and fornicating one.
Yet, strangely, i can’t remember having been mocked by theists on this board.

maybe i’m doing something wrong.

[/quote]

I think it’s because you recognize that while many things should be free to do, certain things should be privileged/exclusive as far as the state is concerned. I think of the never-ending marriage debate. That even if one is a ‘fornicator,’ perhaps society at large shouldn’t aim to be.

Further, you recognize that one can’t mock a theist’s belief (though still not sharing that belief), and then turn around and claim to know the difference between real good and real evil. And, you seem to recognize that while one could abandon a claim to KNOWING good and evil, one then has no firm base from which to criticize the actions–past, present, or future–of the religious. Not if one doesn’t even believe in the truth of their own individual, relative, adopted menu of morals and virtues.

“Rape is wrong. Well, ok, that’s just my personal opinion. It might be ‘the right’ for someone else. We’re both just as right and just as wrong, in reality.”

Not the stuff a civil society can last long on–morals and virtues not even believed to be true in reality.

You also seem, and this could just be me, to have arrived at the same conclusion as I have. Very, very few of those claiming to have abandoned moral truths, have. They talk as if they have, in order to not give an inch to the theist. After all, one can’t examine moral truths, good or evil, under a microscope or through a telescope, either. So, one must let them go as fairy tales, too. Or, at least pretend to. Again, to no longer be able to say,

“I KNOW rape is evil.”

Now, it becomes,

“Well, in my opinion, emotionally, while knowing evil doesn’t exist, I THINK rape is evil.”

Yeah, that’s a foundation of sand right there. No, I suspect most hold at least some of their morals as truths. That is, to believe in their heart, rape is evil outside of any man’s opinion. Faith…

You, though, seem comfortable with the existence of truths outside of human opinion, whim, or emotional state, even if a physicist can’t seem to find them. It’s not theism, but it sure aint this New Atheism. Nor does your brand of atheism seem like the kind that turns purple in the face because it overhead a Christmas carol in public, about a God he doesn’t even believe in. In short, you SEEM to recognize that mankind requires at least some kind of faith. And if not in God(s), than at least in the true existence of good and evil.

133

Then again, I could be waaaay off, and shouldn’t be speaking for someone else.

134

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
because, if we are speaking about infants, it’s the parents’s consent that is relevant, not the infant’s one.
at least in our western legal system,[/quote]

No doubt. I do wish, though, that our society had a little more respect for young children as individuals. [/quote]

So long as they’ve breached the vaginal threshold.

135

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And I know what those better things to do are. Post little cartoons and try as hard as you possibly can to be an insignificant piece of crap on T Nation.

Congrats on that you’re are succeeding![/quote]

Hey, if you can claim someone said something without backing it up, I’m allowed to tell people you molest young boys.

See how this works? No? Oh well.[/quote]

You’re actually allowed to say anything you want and do it anonymously. Those seem to be the rules of the Internet. But one thing that you forgot about what I said was that I ended my recollection with a qualifier. That is I asked him did you or did you not say that you never read the Bible.

Saying what you just said about me makes you a bigger piece of crap than most on here already know that you are. But keep talking you do more harm to atheism than I ever could.

136

[quote]Kebvin wrote:

[quote] ZEB wrote:
And I know what those better things to do are. Post little cartoons and try as hard as you possibly can to be an insignificant piece of crap on T Nation.[/quote]

There you go. :)[/quote]

Actually that would have been funny if it were true. But that’s not quite how it goes down and I think you know it.

137

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

  1. Genital mutilation on infants is wrong. It’s not really negotiable, you don’t take a knife to an infant unless it’s actually necessary. If they want to sacrifice a whole lot of sexual pleasure to their fairy God later in life, that can be their choice.[/quote]

But Mak, back-alley circumcisions! It has to stay legal for that alone! [/quote]

LOL—No Sloth that kind of liberal logic only works for THEIR causes.

138

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I have actually been mocked for being a Christian. So cut the crap.[/quote]

And one need look no further than this very board for proof of your assertion.[/quote]

It’s not a big deal when anonymous people you’ll never meet are insulting other anonymous people they will never meet.

It’s a much bigger deal when you’re trying to hold down a business, for example.[/quote]

No kidding? You mean to tell me that it has a more dramatic impact when someone knows your name and can effect your income? WOW…Well thanks for bringing that to light there Tiger.

139

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I have actually been mocked for being a Christian. So cut the crap.[/quote]

And one need look no further than this very board for proof of your assertion.[/quote]

…And the same is true the other way on these boards. Any mention of issues concerning atheists, several theists on this board choose to mock us for no apparent reason.
[/quote]

When did this happen to whom and for what reason. In most cases the believer is mocked and ridiculed (Sky Wizard blah blah blah) into a debate. Then of course tempers flare it’s only natural. But if I stand corrected on this please show me.

140

[quote]kamui wrote:
several theists on this board choose to mock us for no apparent reason.

I’m not only an atheist, i’m a french, socialist and fornicating one.
Yet, strangely, i can’t remember having been mocked by theists on this board.

maybe i’m doing something wrong. [/quote]

You behave in a civil manner and have never said lines that scum like Mak use on a regular basis. Like “Sky Wizard” or “Fairy God Mother” and a list of other immature disrespectful things. Hence, you are treated with respect and civility in return.

You respect my right to worship God and I respect your right not to worship God.

Funny how well things can work when mature adults converse.