[quote]CU AeroStallion wrote:
because he fucking drove over my girlfriend’s cat one day. what an asshole![/quote]
That happened to you too? Man, that guy was an asshole.
[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
Worf wrote:
He comes across as a little arrogant to me, too. However, I was wondering if he is somewhat justified in his arrogance. Have there been many bodybuilders who have used the HIT philosophy successfully?
Dorian Yates had his own version of HIT. [/quote]
Casey Viator
he DID lose unfairly. Arnold was small in the 1980 Olympia (not to mention, he pissed alot of people off backstage). Did you see pictures of Mentzer at that contest? Those triceps were hanging off his arms!
Dorian Yates did reach his highest level of strength and size after his collaberation with Mike. I think HIT does work, but not for long periods of time.
Bluntly said, he reminds me of the character off the low budget movie, Dodgeball, White Goodman.
[quote]cleansnatch wrote:
I think my feelings of animosity towards him were related to his dogmatice approach to training. He believed only in his system and that is it. He attacked anyone that disageed with him and never looked seriously at any alternatives to his way.
He also whined constantly about “unfairly losing” the Olympia. Never could get over it. Was bitter and entrenched. Not a positive person and not the type of person I like to be around or read about.
That is my humble opinion.[/quote]
What he said.
Also, Mike gained all his muscle when he was younger using conventional volume methods, then he read Ayn Rand, discovered HIT, and thought there was only one way to do anything.
Well guess what? Mike also used HIT as an excuse to rationalize the fact that when he became older, he became a lazy lazy lazy bastard. He tried to convince himself that doing only a couple of sets a week was the best way, despite the fact that in his last ten or so years of life, he lost most of his muscle, and grew a pretty impressive pot belly.
I’d say that Mentzer was kind of a pseudointellectual. He’d ramble exhaustively about logic, philosophy, Ayn Rand and blah blah blah just for the purpose of justifying his HIT method. He failed to realize that optimal training protocol cannot simply be INFERRED. He also failed to realize that his method is probably the single least successful on the face of the earth.
Mentzer and Poliquin didn’t like each other too much…
[quote]deanosumo wrote:
cleansnatch wrote:
I think my feelings of animosity towards him were related to his dogmatice approach to training. He believed only in his system and that is it. He attacked anyone that disageed with him and never looked seriously at any alternatives to his way.
He also whined constantly about “unfairly losing” the Olympia. Never could get over it. Was bitter and entrenched. Not a positive person and not the type of person I like to be around or read about.
That is my humble opinion.
What he said.
Also, Mike gained all his muscle when he was younger using conventional volume methods, then he read Ayn Rand, discovered HIT, and thought there was only one way to do anything.
Well guess what? Mike also used HIT as an excuse to rationalize the fact that when he became older, he became a lazy lazy lazy bastard. He tried to convince himself that doing only a couple of sets a week was the best way, despite the fact that in his last ten or so years of life, he lost most of his muscle, and grew a pretty impressive pot belly.
[/quote]
I think you maybe wrong at that last part, unless what I have read is also wrong. I think he stopped training following a back injury. But then you have to wonder after his loss to politics (and it was, even if he wasn’t #1 no way Arnold was) that maybe he just lost all his drive.
I consider myself an objectivist but I don’t train HIT. I also find associating with other objectivist to be draining and irritating…they would probably call me weak and unactualized.
Like Rand, Mike is hard to read sometimes and can use some not-exactly-proper analogies. But I do find it interesting stuff.
[quote]cleansnatch wrote:
I think my feelings of animosity towards him were related to his dogmatic approach to training. He believed only in his system and that is it. He attacked anyone that disageed with him and never looked seriously at any alternatives to his way.
[/quote]
sounds like a few of the regular t-mag writers…
He was rumored to be bat shit crazy and supposedly drank his own pee.
I’m serious. Oh, also he was into Nietzche before he was on the Ayn Rand kick. What philosphy has to do with working, out I have no idea.
i thnk he had a great physique, but i personally disdain his ideas because…
- Raynd was windbag and an idiot.
- Mike built his body the old fashioned way, heavy basic work and excellent drugs.
- Both he and his brother came to tragic and early ends which were entirely predictable.
- He took advantage of rich, mainly Japanese newbies and made great training claims which Christi Brinkely could have gotten with a bowflex.
- Because of Mentzer and Jones, i will have to constantly be on guard that some dumbo HITITE strength coach doesn’t try to pre-exhaust my son with leg presses before smith machine squats.
- Both Ray and Casey Viator were better BBers, IMHO.
- He got fat and was a chain smoker.
- The previously mentioned 'stache.
- His stupid striped training shirts.
- The they cheated me angle, which they did, but if Atlas shrugged it off , why couldn’t he?
[quote]belligerent wrote:
I’d say that Mentzer was kind of a pseudointellectual. He’d ramble exhaustively about logic, philosophy, Ayn Rand and blah blah blah just for the purpose of justifying his HIT method. He failed to realize that optimal training protocol cannot simply be INFERRED.
“He also failed to realize that his method is probably the single least successful on the face of the earth.”[/quote]
I doesn’t make any sense to say he FAILED to realize that his method is PROBABLY the least successful.
If it is probable, then there is an equal chance that there was nothing to realize.
It worked great for me for approx 6 months. It certainly worked for Dorian Yates and many others as well. It does have it’s merits.
[quote]jackreape wrote:
i thnk he had a great physique, but i personally disdain his ideas because…
- Raynd was windbag and an idiot.
- Mike built his body the old fashioned way, heavy basic work and excellent drugs.
- Both he and his brother came to tragic and early ends which were entirely predictable.
- He took advantage of rich, mainly Japanese newbies and made great training claims which Christi Brinkely could have gotten with a bowflex.
- Because of Mentzer and Jones, i will have to constantly be on guard that some dumbo HITITE strength coach doesn’t try to pre-exhaust my son with leg presses before smith machine squats.
- Both Ray and Casey Viator were better BBers, IMHO.
- He got fat and was a chain smoker.
- The previously mentioned 'stache.
- His stupid striped training shirts.
- The they cheated me angle, which they did, but if Atlas shrugged it off , why couldn’t he?
[/quote]
Let me counter some of your statements:
For what it’s worth, he was always upfront about his steroid use, unlike EVERY other MF in the sport — men and women alike.
Not quite sure what you mean by that. If you mean that they succumbed to hereditary cardio problems, then I’m with you.
You obviously don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Smith-machine squats? What a dipstick.
If you’re lucky, the HIT coach which instill in your son a need to get in the gym and get it done.
This way he won’t turn out to be such a bitter asshole like his old man, after realizing how much productive time in his life had been wasted with marathon gym bouts.
[quote]conorh wrote:
Worf wrote:
Before everyone starts throwing stones at me, let me just say that I’m not a disciple of Menzter, nor am I seeking to defend him; this is just something I am curious about. Why do people here at T-Nation seem to hate Mike Menzter so much? All I know about the man comes from what I have read in his own books. This is the only place where I have come across so much animosity toward him. Is it because he comes across as arrogant? Is it perhaps because he was a disciple of Ayn Rand? Is it just an objection to his philosophy of high-intensity training? Or something else? I look forward to your comments.
Well, yeah, the guy came off as a dick. I never met him before his death but that’s the way he came off. I’d feel pretty confident in saying he’s not a guy I’d really want to meet. Furthermore, what I have read of his was just bullshit dressed up with pretty language, but bullshit nonetheless.[/quote]
thats weird. did you meet him after his death?
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
jackreape wrote:
i thnk he had a great physique, but i personally disdain his ideas because…
- Raynd was windbag and an idiot.
- Mike built his body the old fashioned way, heavy basic work and excellent drugs.
- Both he and his brother came to tragic and early ends which were entirely predictable.
- He took advantage of rich, mainly Japanese newbies and made great training claims which Christi Brinkely could have gotten with a bowflex.
- Because of Mentzer and Jones, i will have to constantly be on guard that some dumbo HITITE strength coach doesn’t try to pre-exhaust my son with leg presses before smith machine squats.
- Both Ray and Casey Viator were better BBers, IMHO.
- He got fat and was a chain smoker.
- The previously mentioned 'stache.
- His stupid striped training shirts.
- The they cheated me angle, which they did, but if Atlas shrugged it off , why couldn’t he?
Let me counter some of your statements:
- Mike built his body the old fashioned way, heavy basic work and excellent drugs.
For what it’s worth, he was always upfront about his steroid use, unlike EVERY other MF in the sport — men and women alike.
- Both he and his brother came to tragic and early ends which were entirely predictable.
Not quite sure what you mean by that. If you mean that they succumbed to hereditary cardio problems, then I’m with you.
- Because of Mentzer and Jones, i will have to constantly be on guard that some dumbo HITITE strength coach doesn’t try to pre-exhaust my son with leg presses before smith machine squats.
You obviously don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Smith-machine squats? What a dipstick.
If you’re lucky, the HIT coach which instill in your son a need to get in the gym and get it done.
This way he won’t turn out to be such a bitter asshole like his old man, after realizing how much productive time in his life had been wasted with marathon gym bouts.[/quote]
Looks like a Mentzer drone made a New years resolution to defend HIT.
This could be a lot of fun but off to the gym for another bitter experience.
Happy New Year.
LOL…
I think the animosity has a lot to do with comments Mentzer made on his site (shortly before his death) about Tim and TC. The comments were flat out fabrications, but lingered because of his death.
The HIT jedi-types tend to create their own noise as there way is the “only” way.
You can’t call T-Nation anti-HIT with the support it has given to Dr. Darden.
old dogg
[quote]jackreape wrote:
Looks like a Mentzer drone made a New years resolution to defend HIT.
This could be a lot of fun but off to the gym for another bitter experience.
Happy New Year.
LOL…[/quote]
If I were a drone, I’d have taken umbrage with all of your statements, now wouldn’t I?
As is stands, I only disagreed with three of them.
[quote]old_dogg wrote:
I think the animosity has a lot to do with comments Mentzer made on his site (shortly before his death) about Tim and TC. The comments were flat out fabrications, but lingered because of his death.
The HIT jedi-types tend to create their own noise as there way is the “only” way.
You can’t call T-Nation anti-HIT with the support it has given to Dr. Darden.
old dogg[/quote]
There were problems with Mentzer’s latter years, to be sure.
I will defend the man when someone brings up an erroneous point (or three). But be sure that I grew out of the “one true way” hype a long time ago.
T-Nation has been more than supportive of Dr. D. Those members who choose to approach things with an open mind get a thumbs up — no one said you had to agree, just listen.
Mentzer was an arrogant, closeminded underaged curmudgeon as has been extensively illuminated already.
However, HIT principles intelligently incorporated into one’s own overall training vocabulary and utilized in cycles are a very effective tool.
To deny this is to be as arrogant and close minded as he was or just plain ignorant.
Several authors here have quite rightly said as much themselves.