Why Do Men Get Married These Days?

Off Topic
561

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]treco wrote:

Regarding the crazies you had live-ins with, did you move in with them before “a very few weeks” (as per your earlier post) or did it take a little longer to realize that they were crazy or did you suspect they might be somewhat crazy but they were hot/sex was good so you were prepared to overlook a measure of crazy until after you moved in and realized just how deep the rabbit hole went?

Not meaning to be a dick, just curious. This is a slippery slope where it’s easy to misstep, especially as a guy in your early-mid 20’s where most of us guys are a touch crazy ourselves just a developmental phase…[/quote]

My time frame was about 25-30 and yes hotness/sex clouded my logical reasoning. One I knew the rabbit hole was infinite beforehand, the other I saw some signs but realized after setting more concrete plans like engagement.

I virtually left one at the altar, so was in deep. She was pretty skilled and it was my good fortune that good sense came to me (after moving 1000 miles, giving up a great job, getting a house together, and buying a ring) LOL
The other was emotionally broken, nutty, and I’d say I wanted to rescue her.

But the stop signs were there, if I had just compared those relationships to normal ones I had (thinking family, friends, co-workers here).

562

[quote]sen say wrote:

I can honestly say that getting married to She Say was the greatest thing I ever did.[/quote]

in what way?

563

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

…The single best defense against a crazy woman is strong boundaries, not time…

[/quote]

Very guru-ish.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, one could argue that one of the most important qualities for any man in any situation is strong boundaries.

Establishing and defending boundaries and hierarchies of space, both on a large and small scale, is one of the most basic male imperatives and has been since time out of mind. Many (most) of us seem to completely abandon this crucial frame when confronted with a nice face and/or a perky pair of boobs. Then we wonder how it all goes sideways for us. Go figure…[/quote]

I think this holds true for women, too. I know that the character flaws in my most recent past relationship were visible right from the start, but I was confused as to their origin and somehow thought it mattered about his family dynamics and blah-blah-heroic-fix-it-up-chappy-pipe-dream. I also attributed uncertainty and mistrust to the slight distance between us rather than his instability and complete untrustworthiness.

It’s only now that I’ve strengthened my own boundaries and earned a relationship with someone I CAN trust that I see how foolish I was. And I’m an adult! Though one without very much dating experience at the time.

Shit’s confusing, yo.

564

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
It’s really heartbreaking, and it makes me sad to see the way they’re spoken of on these boards. ^^^

[/quote]

In my observation, the ones speaking harshly of people with BPD are those who were in a relationship with one. They’ve been through the abuse, and the manipulation, and the gaslighting, and the inane arguements, and at some point decided they wanted off the emotional roller coaster.

Having been in a relationship like that, having compassion for someone with BPD is a bit like having compassion for a tornado because it’s simply the result of certain weather patterns…while ignoring the destruction of 30,000 homes and 200 dead.

Additionally, ime people with BPD do not recognize the behavior in themselves. There’s actually a term for it to distinguish it from mental illness that the sufferer does recognize but I can’t think of it right now. The person with BPD does not want compassion, they do not want understanding. From their perspective, they’re not the one with the problem, the other person is. It makes therapy incredibly frustrating. On more than one occasion my ex stormed out of the office after being told her behavior was less than ideal. [/quote]

I don’t disagree with anything you say, but there’s a note of “FOR A GOOD TIME CALL A BORDERLINE” here at times.

I will also say that while no therapist relishes working with them as a rule, people with the diagnosis can and do make changes. Are the people who do truly borderline (which is to say that they are missing an essential element of a healthy, functional personality)? Maybe not. But still, there is always hope. (But yes, it’s best not to marry them and have children with them.)

565

On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now.

566

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

…The single best defense against a crazy woman is strong boundaries, not time…

[/quote]

Very guru-ish.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, one could argue that one of the most important qualities for any man in any situation is strong boundaries.

Establishing and defending boundaries and hierarchies of space, both on a large and small scale, is one of the most basic male imperatives and has been since time out of mind. Many (most) of us seem to completely abandon this crucial frame when confronted with a nice face and/or a perky pair of boobs. Then we wonder how it all goes sideways for us. Go figure…[/quote]

I think this holds true for women, too. I know that the character flaws in my most recent past relationship were visible right from the start, but I was confused as to their origin and somehow thought it mattered about his family dynamics and blah-blah-heroic-fix-it-up-chappy-pipe-dream. I also attributed uncertainty and mistrust to the slight distance between us rather than his instability and complete untrustworthiness.

It’s only now that I’ve strengthened my own boundaries and earned a relationship with someone I CAN trust that I see how foolish I was. And I’m an adult! Though one without very much dating experience at the time.

Shit’s confusing, yo.[/quote]

I agree completely that everyone, regardless of gender, needs healthy boundaries to do well in life. Everyone, reardless of gender, also needs the ability to yield at times. The whole dynamic balance of firmness/softness thing, yin and yang and all that. Women cannot outsource their firmness nor can men expect women to carry all their softness.

I do, however, believe that the firmness side of the balance is inherently more critical to the character of a healthy male than a healthy female. If a male is too “soft” it will harm him in life more than it would harm a female of comparable softness.

In the most literal sense, establishing and defending boundaries (i.e. borders, territiories, physical walls etc) has tradionally fallen more within the scope of male duties. Nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive is, traditionally, a more female dominated endeavour. Either side of the equation is meaningless without the other, so while they are equally valuable they are different in function. Fundamentally different thought processes are required in each of these roles.

This division of labour has, either through adaptation or design, given rise significant differences between men and women that are wired in pretty deeply. We in the West have culturally decided in the past 50 years or that it is preferable for men and women to think and behave the same. The reults of this experiment remain to be seen. However, for the time being, the differences persist.

This shit is, ideed, confusing, yo.

568

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now. [/quote]

Shittest.

569

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

…The single best defense against a crazy woman is strong boundaries, not time…

[/quote]

Very guru-ish.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, one could argue that one of the most important qualities for any man in any situation is strong boundaries.

Establishing and defending boundaries and hierarchies of space, both on a large and small scale, is one of the most basic male imperatives and has been since time out of mind. Many (most) of us seem to completely abandon this crucial frame when confronted with a nice face and/or a perky pair of boobs. Then we wonder how it all goes sideways for us. Go figure…[/quote]

I think this holds true for women, too. I know that the character flaws in my most recent past relationship were visible right from the start, but I was confused as to their origin and somehow thought it mattered about his family dynamics and blah-blah-heroic-fix-it-up-chappy-pipe-dream. I also attributed uncertainty and mistrust to the slight distance between us rather than his instability and complete untrustworthiness.

It’s only now that I’ve strengthened my own boundaries and earned a relationship with someone I CAN trust that I see how foolish I was. And I’m an adult! Though one without very much dating experience at the time.

Shit’s confusing, yo.[/quote]

I agree completely that everyone, regardless of gender, needs healthy boundaries to do well in life. Everyone, reardless of gender, also needs the ability to yield at times. The whole dynamic balance of firmness/softness thing, yin and yang and all that. Women cannot outsource their firmness nor can men expect women to carry all their softness.

I do, however, believe that the firmness side of the balance is inherently more critical to the character of a healthy male than a healthy female. If a male is too “soft” it will harm him in life more than it would harm a female of comparable softness.

In the most literal sense, establishing and defending boundaries (i.e. borders, territiories, physical walls etc) has tradionally fallen more within the scope of male duties. Nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive is, traditionally, a more female dominated endeavour. Either side of the equation is meaningless without the other, so while they are equally valuable they are different in function. Fundamentally different thought processes are required in each of these roles.

This division of labour has, either through adaptation or design, given rise significant differences between men and women that are wired in pretty deeply. We in the West have culturally decided in the past 50 years or that it is preferable for men and women to think and behave the same. The reults of this experiment remain to be seen. However, for the time being, the differences persist.

This shit is, ideed, confusing, yo.[/quote]

Okay, so let’s tilt this a bit and suppose that the boyfriend who behaved atrociously was the one lacking in boundaries, and I’m appropriately “nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive.” Still problematic - quite so - because there is no end to the nurturing and helping required when there are no containing emotional or behavioral borders. At some point, as a nurturing female, you come to a place where nurturing and helping require endless forgiveness and eventually dissociation, because there are no boundaries anywhere. The hurtful acts just keep occurring.

Which brings us back to my boundaries. I don’t want someone who needs me for stability. I want someone who wants me for the enhancement I can bring to an already-stable life. Within that context I can nurture away - in safety. However, “wanting” isn’t enough as we all know. Not settling for less is how you achieve this.

570

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now. [/quote]

Shittest. [/quote]

Huh? How so? (You weirdo.)

Edit: I hope you answer soon, because you have me mystified as to how thinking I’ve found someone I want to spend the rest of my life with is a shit test. Or is it that I’ve wanted to see what it was like combining our lives before letting my thoughts wander too much in that direction?

571

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

…The single best defense against a crazy woman is strong boundaries, not time…

[/quote]

Very guru-ish.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, one could argue that one of the most important qualities for any man in any situation is strong boundaries.

Establishing and defending boundaries and hierarchies of space, both on a large and small scale, is one of the most basic male imperatives and has been since time out of mind. Many (most) of us seem to completely abandon this crucial frame when confronted with a nice face and/or a perky pair of boobs. Then we wonder how it all goes sideways for us. Go figure…[/quote]

I think this holds true for women, too. I know that the character flaws in my most recent past relationship were visible right from the start, but I was confused as to their origin and somehow thought it mattered about his family dynamics and blah-blah-heroic-fix-it-up-chappy-pipe-dream. I also attributed uncertainty and mistrust to the slight distance between us rather than his instability and complete untrustworthiness.

It’s only now that I’ve strengthened my own boundaries and earned a relationship with someone I CAN trust that I see how foolish I was. And I’m an adult! Though one without very much dating experience at the time.

Shit’s confusing, yo.[/quote]

I agree completely that everyone, regardless of gender, needs healthy boundaries to do well in life. Everyone, reardless of gender, also needs the ability to yield at times. The whole dynamic balance of firmness/softness thing, yin and yang and all that. Women cannot outsource their firmness nor can men expect women to carry all their softness.

I do, however, believe that the firmness side of the balance is inherently more critical to the character of a healthy male than a healthy female. If a male is too “soft” it will harm him in life more than it would harm a female of comparable softness.

In the most literal sense, establishing and defending boundaries (i.e. borders, territiories, physical walls etc) has tradionally fallen more within the scope of male duties. Nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive is, traditionally, a more female dominated endeavour. Either side of the equation is meaningless without the other, so while they are equally valuable they are different in function. Fundamentally different thought processes are required in each of these roles.

This division of labour has, either through adaptation or design, given rise significant differences between men and women that are wired in pretty deeply. We in the West have culturally decided in the past 50 years or that it is preferable for men and women to think and behave the same. The reults of this experiment remain to be seen. However, for the time being, the differences persist.

This shit is, ideed, confusing, yo.[/quote]

Okay, so let’s tilt this a bit and suppose that the boyfriend who behaved atrociously was the one lacking in boundaries, and I’m appropriately “nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive.” Still problematic - quite so - because there is no end to the nurturing and helping required when there are no containing emotional or behavioral borders. At some point, as a nurturing female, you come to a place where nurturing and helping require endless forgiveness and eventually dissociation, because there are no boundaries anywhere. The hurtful acts just keep occurring.

Which brings us back to my boundaries. I don’t want someone who needs me for stability. I want someone who wants me for the enhancement I can bring to an already-stable life. Within that context I can nurture away - in safety. However, “wanting” isn’t enough as we all know. Not settling for less is how you achieve this.[/quote]

Which is why I said that both parties need both qualities, just perhaps in different measure. Each needs to be a whole, (at least somewhat) functional person. I don’t see where we actually disagree.

572

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now. [/quote]

Shittest. [/quote]

Huh? How so? (You weirdo.)

Edit: I hope you answer soon, because you have me mystified as to how thinking I’ve found someone I want to spend the rest of my life with is a shit test. Or is it that I’ve wanted to see what it was like combining our lives before letting my thoughts wander too much in that direction?[/quote]

Thats because you kind of want him to committ, but then again your relationship will be so much better if you always have a little bit of doubt in your mind whether he is truly “yours”.

Which in the long run will make sure that you more often than not will go the extra mile so that he remembers why he is with you, which might actually lead to “happily ever after”.

So, if I were him I would say “no”.

573

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

…The single best defense against a crazy woman is strong boundaries, not time…

[/quote]

Very guru-ish.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, one could argue that one of the most important qualities for any man in any situation is strong boundaries.

Establishing and defending boundaries and hierarchies of space, both on a large and small scale, is one of the most basic male imperatives and has been since time out of mind. Many (most) of us seem to completely abandon this crucial frame when confronted with a nice face and/or a perky pair of boobs. Then we wonder how it all goes sideways for us. Go figure…[/quote]

I think this holds true for women, too. I know that the character flaws in my most recent past relationship were visible right from the start, but I was confused as to their origin and somehow thought it mattered about his family dynamics and blah-blah-heroic-fix-it-up-chappy-pipe-dream. I also attributed uncertainty and mistrust to the slight distance between us rather than his instability and complete untrustworthiness.

It’s only now that I’ve strengthened my own boundaries and earned a relationship with someone I CAN trust that I see how foolish I was. And I’m an adult! Though one without very much dating experience at the time.

Shit’s confusing, yo.[/quote]

I agree completely that everyone, regardless of gender, needs healthy boundaries to do well in life. Everyone, reardless of gender, also needs the ability to yield at times. The whole dynamic balance of firmness/softness thing, yin and yang and all that. Women cannot outsource their firmness nor can men expect women to carry all their softness.

I do, however, believe that the firmness side of the balance is inherently more critical to the character of a healthy male than a healthy female. If a male is too “soft” it will harm him in life more than it would harm a female of comparable softness.

In the most literal sense, establishing and defending boundaries (i.e. borders, territiories, physical walls etc) has tradionally fallen more within the scope of male duties. Nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive is, traditionally, a more female dominated endeavour. Either side of the equation is meaningless without the other, so while they are equally valuable they are different in function. Fundamentally different thought processes are required in each of these roles.

This division of labour has, either through adaptation or design, given rise significant differences between men and women that are wired in pretty deeply. We in the West have culturally decided in the past 50 years or that it is preferable for men and women to think and behave the same. The reults of this experiment remain to be seen. However, for the time being, the differences persist.

This shit is, ideed, confusing, yo.[/quote]

Okay, so let’s tilt this a bit and suppose that the boyfriend who behaved atrociously was the one lacking in boundaries, and I’m appropriately “nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive.” Still problematic - quite so - because there is no end to the nurturing and helping required when there are no containing emotional or behavioral borders. At some point, as a nurturing female, you come to a place where nurturing and helping require endless forgiveness and eventually dissociation, because there are no boundaries anywhere. The hurtful acts just keep occurring.

Which brings us back to my boundaries. I don’t want someone who needs me for stability. I want someone who wants me for the enhancement I can bring to an already-stable life. Within that context I can nurture away - in safety. However, “wanting” isn’t enough as we all know. Not settling for less is how you achieve this.[/quote]

Which is why I said that both parties need both qualities, just perhaps in different measure. Each needs to be a whole, (at least somewhat) functional person. I don’t see where we actually disagree.[/quote]

No, that was me agreeing, actually. I was just sort of looking at my experience through your frame. It worked for me.

574

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

…The single best defense against a crazy woman is strong boundaries, not time…

[/quote]

Very guru-ish.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, one could argue that one of the most important qualities for any man in any situation is strong boundaries.

Establishing and defending boundaries and hierarchies of space, both on a large and small scale, is one of the most basic male imperatives and has been since time out of mind. Many (most) of us seem to completely abandon this crucial frame when confronted with a nice face and/or a perky pair of boobs. Then we wonder how it all goes sideways for us. Go figure…[/quote]

I think this holds true for women, too. I know that the character flaws in my most recent past relationship were visible right from the start, but I was confused as to their origin and somehow thought it mattered about his family dynamics and blah-blah-heroic-fix-it-up-chappy-pipe-dream. I also attributed uncertainty and mistrust to the slight distance between us rather than his instability and complete untrustworthiness.

It’s only now that I’ve strengthened my own boundaries and earned a relationship with someone I CAN trust that I see how foolish I was. And I’m an adult! Though one without very much dating experience at the time.

Shit’s confusing, yo.[/quote]

I agree completely that everyone, regardless of gender, needs healthy boundaries to do well in life. Everyone, reardless of gender, also needs the ability to yield at times. The whole dynamic balance of firmness/softness thing, yin and yang and all that. Women cannot outsource their firmness nor can men expect women to carry all their softness.

I do, however, believe that the firmness side of the balance is inherently more critical to the character of a healthy male than a healthy female. If a male is too “soft” it will harm him in life more than it would harm a female of comparable softness.

In the most literal sense, establishing and defending boundaries (i.e. borders, territiories, physical walls etc) has tradionally fallen more within the scope of male duties. Nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive is, traditionally, a more female dominated endeavour. Either side of the equation is meaningless without the other, so while they are equally valuable they are different in function. Fundamentally different thought processes are required in each of these roles.

This division of labour has, either through adaptation or design, given rise significant differences between men and women that are wired in pretty deeply. We in the West have culturally decided in the past 50 years or that it is preferable for men and women to think and behave the same. The reults of this experiment remain to be seen. However, for the time being, the differences persist.

This shit is, ideed, confusing, yo.[/quote]

Okay, so let’s tilt this a bit and suppose that the boyfriend who behaved atrociously was the one lacking in boundaries, and I’m appropriately “nurturing what resides within those boundaries and helping it to thrive.” Still problematic - quite so - because there is no end to the nurturing and helping required when there are no containing emotional or behavioral borders. At some point, as a nurturing female, you come to a place where nurturing and helping require endless forgiveness and eventually dissociation, because there are no boundaries anywhere. The hurtful acts just keep occurring.

Which brings us back to my boundaries. I don’t want someone who needs me for stability. I want someone who wants me for the enhancement I can bring to an already-stable life. Within that context I can nurture away - in safety. However, “wanting” isn’t enough as we all know. Not settling for less is how you achieve this.[/quote]

Which is why I said that both parties need both qualities, just perhaps in different measure. Each needs to be a whole, (at least somewhat) functional person. I don’t see where we actually disagree.[/quote]

No, that was me agreeing, actually. I was just sort of looking at my experience through your frame. It worked for me.[/quote]

Ah, got it.

575

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now. [/quote]

Shittest. [/quote]

Huh? How so? (You weirdo.)

Edit: I hope you answer soon, because you have me mystified as to how thinking I’ve found someone I want to spend the rest of my life with is a shit test. Or is it that I’ve wanted to see what it was like combining our lives before letting my thoughts wander too much in that direction?[/quote]

Thats because you kind of want him to committ, but then again your relationship will be so much better if you always have a little bit of doubt in your mind whether he is truly “yours”.

Which in the long run will make sure that you more often than not will go the extra mile so that he remembers why he is with you, which might actually lead to “happily ever after”.

So, if I were him I would say “no”. [/quote]

No, orion. You’re entirely wrong here. You lack experience and are talking out of your ass. We’re adults with goals that match, and if I had to guess, concerns that match. Actually, I don’t have to guess - the concern is “are we well suited in the long term?” Everything else is a go. Financials are good separately and better together; social lives are good separately and nicely combining, families same; long term goals and ideas about what constitutes “a good life” are similar. We now live together and find it warm and joyous.

What possible motivation could either of us have to play hard to get? Why would either of us NOT go the extra mile? We each do that in every area of our lives. Work, play - neither of us is lazy or indifferent. Both of us LIKE going an extra mile (I’m a runner, remember?). We both know who the other was in relation to our past relationships, who we are in relation to friends and family, how we view work and coworkers. Character tends to be consistent across the board. We are both people who nurture our relationships and jobs and belongings and savings and etc.

Which is why I think I might like to do forever with him. And also because of how much fun we have when we’re together. He’s solid and kind and adventurous and funny. I sort of think he feels the same way about me.

576

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now. [/quote]

Shittest. [/quote]

Huh? How so? (You weirdo.)

Edit: I hope you answer soon, because you have me mystified as to how thinking I’ve found someone I want to spend the rest of my life with is a shit test. Or is it that I’ve wanted to see what it was like combining our lives before letting my thoughts wander too much in that direction?[/quote]

Thats because you kind of want him to committ, but then again your relationship will be so much better if you always have a little bit of doubt in your mind whether he is truly “yours”.

Which in the long run will make sure that you more often than not will go the extra mile so that he remembers why he is with you, which might actually lead to “happily ever after”.

So, if I were him I would say “no”. [/quote]

No, orion. You’re entirely wrong here. You lack experience and are talking out of your ass. We’re adults with goals that match, and if I had to guess, concerns that match. Actually, I don’t have to guess - the concern is “are we well suited in the long term?” Everything else is a go. Financials are good separately and better together; social lives are good separately and nicely combining, families same; long term goals and ideas about what constitutes “a good life” are similar. We now live together and find it warm and joyous.

What possible motivation could either of us have to play hard to get? Why would either of us NOT go the extra mile? We each do that in every area of our lives. Work, play - neither of us is lazy or indifferent. Both of us LIKE going an extra mile (I’m a runner, remember?). We both know who the other was in relation to our past relationships, who we are in relation to friends and family, how we view work and coworkers. Character tends to be consistent across the board. We are both people who nurture our relationships and jobs and belongings and savings and etc.

Which is why I think I might like to do forever with him. And also because of how much fun we have when we’re together. He’s solid and kind and adventurous and funny. I sort of think he feels the same way about me.[/quote]

Yeah, you believe all that and it would still be better if you had an element of uncertainty left.

Because you are a girl and you cannot help it.

Hey and do forever with him.

Why ruin it with a piece of paper that gives you a false sense of security?

577

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
On a related topic, I sort of think that maybe I want to get married now. [/quote]

Shittest. [/quote]

Huh? How so? (You weirdo.)

Edit: I hope you answer soon, because you have me mystified as to how thinking I’ve found someone I want to spend the rest of my life with is a shit test. Or is it that I’ve wanted to see what it was like combining our lives before letting my thoughts wander too much in that direction?[/quote]

Thats because you kind of want him to committ, but then again your relationship will be so much better if you always have a little bit of doubt in your mind whether he is truly “yours”.

Which in the long run will make sure that you more often than not will go the extra mile so that he remembers why he is with you, which might actually lead to “happily ever after”.

So, if I were him I would say “no”. [/quote]

No, orion. You’re entirely wrong here. You lack experience and are talking out of your ass. We’re adults with goals that match, and if I had to guess, concerns that match. Actually, I don’t have to guess - the concern is “are we well suited in the long term?” Everything else is a go. Financials are good separately and better together; social lives are good separately and nicely combining, families same; long term goals and ideas about what constitutes “a good life” are similar. We now live together and find it warm and joyous.

What possible motivation could either of us have to play hard to get? Why would either of us NOT go the extra mile? We each do that in every area of our lives. Work, play - neither of us is lazy or indifferent. Both of us LIKE going an extra mile (I’m a runner, remember?). We both know who the other was in relation to our past relationships, who we are in relation to friends and family, how we view work and coworkers. Character tends to be consistent across the board. We are both people who nurture our relationships and jobs and belongings and savings and etc.

Which is why I think I might like to do forever with him. And also because of how much fun we have when we’re together. He’s solid and kind and adventurous and funny. I sort of think he feels the same way about me.[/quote]

Yeah, you believe all that and it would still be better if you had an element of uncertainty left.

Because you are a girl and you cannot help it.

Hey and do forever with him.

Why ruin it with a piece of paper that gives you a false sense of security?[/quote]

I don’t see it as security, exactly. After all, I’ve been divorced and there were good reasons for making that decision, none of which were an overabundance of security. I see it as a promise. A most excellent, heartfelt promise. Which brings emotional security, no?

578

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

No, orion. You’re entirely wrong here. You lack experience and are talking out of your ass. We’re adults with goals that match, and if I had to guess, concerns that match. Actually, I don’t have to guess - the concern is “are we well suited in the long term?” Everything else is a go. Financials are good separately and better together; social lives are good separately and nicely combining, families same; long term goals and ideas about what constitutes “a good life” are similar. We now live together and find it warm and joyous.

What possible motivation could either of us have to play hard to get? Why would either of us NOT go the extra mile? We each do that in every area of our lives. Work, play - neither of us is lazy or indifferent. Both of us LIKE going an extra mile (I’m a runner, remember?). We both know who the other was in relation to our past relationships, who we are in relation to friends and family, how we view work and coworkers. Character tends to be consistent across the board. We are both people who nurture our relationships and jobs and belongings and savings and etc.

Which is why I think I might like to do forever with him. And also because of how much fun we have when we’re together. He’s solid and kind and adventurous and funny. I sort of think he feels the same way about me.[/quote]

Doesn’t anybody just get married for love? :stuck_out_tongue:

579

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

No, orion. You’re entirely wrong here. You lack experience and are talking out of your ass. We’re adults with goals that match, and if I had to guess, concerns that match. Actually, I don’t have to guess - the concern is “are we well suited in the long term?” Everything else is a go. Financials are good separately and better together; social lives are good separately and nicely combining, families same; long term goals and ideas about what constitutes “a good life” are similar. We now live together and find it warm and joyous.

What possible motivation could either of us have to play hard to get? Why would either of us NOT go the extra mile? We each do that in every area of our lives. Work, play - neither of us is lazy or indifferent. Both of us LIKE going an extra mile (I’m a runner, remember?). We both know who the other was in relation to our past relationships, who we are in relation to friends and family, how we view work and coworkers. Character tends to be consistent across the board. We are both people who nurture our relationships and jobs and belongings and savings and etc.

Which is why I think I might like to do forever with him. And also because of how much fun we have when we’re together. He’s solid and kind and adventurous and funny. I sort of think he feels the same way about me.[/quote]

Doesn’t anybody just get married for love? :p[/quote]

Oh Broncoandy, you silly, deluded fool. NO. Women get married for financial gain and men for no good reason whatsoever.

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[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

No, orion. You’re entirely wrong here. You lack experience and are talking out of your ass. We’re adults with goals that match, and if I had to guess, concerns that match. Actually, I don’t have to guess - the concern is “are we well suited in the long term?” Everything else is a go. Financials are good separately and better together; social lives are good separately and nicely combining, families same; long term goals and ideas about what constitutes “a good life” are similar. We now live together and find it warm and joyous.

What possible motivation could either of us have to play hard to get? Why would either of us NOT go the extra mile? We each do that in every area of our lives. Work, play - neither of us is lazy or indifferent. Both of us LIKE going an extra mile (I’m a runner, remember?). We both know who the other was in relation to our past relationships, who we are in relation to friends and family, how we view work and coworkers. Character tends to be consistent across the board. We are both people who nurture our relationships and jobs and belongings and savings and etc.

Which is why I think I might like to do forever with him. And also because of how much fun we have when we’re together. He’s solid and kind and adventurous and funny. I sort of think he feels the same way about me.[/quote]

Doesn’t anybody just get married for love? :p[/quote]

Oh Broncoandy, you silly, deluded fool. NO. Women get married for financial gain and men for no good reason whatsoever.[/quote]

Oh bugger. That’s 25 years down the drain then…