Riley: I can’t wait for niggas to start hatin’, I can’t wait…
Huey: So you judge a success by the amount of ill-will you generate from those around you?
Riley: Ey, if niggas ain’t mad at you, then you’re doing something wrong.
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Sloth wrote:
You folks know what I like about Europeans?
They are in Europe?
[/quote]
No, no, heh. But I’ll get back to you when I can think of something
Just kidding!
[quote]orion wrote:
You have forgotten that the Nazis were MUCH worse.
[/quote]
You win, you brought up Nazi’s first.
I think the reason the Nazi’s appear to be worse than the other nations of Europe, was because the Nazi’s exterminated other Europeans for the most part, while the other countries I mentioned killed non-European “natives” and “indians” and such.
Many countries went to war, and created empires in the past, why is it such a crime when the US does the same thing?
There are a lot of invasions, occupations that no one ever talks about. Look at China for instance. They are allowed to occupy Tibet and Israel is not allowed to occupy Palestine?
You can say the US made the terrorist situation worse, but there were many terrorists before the invasion of Iraq, obviously many before 9-11. Who created these groups? Is the US responsible Islamic terrorists in India for example? For the terrorists in Chechnia? For the Uyghurs in China?
You can point to us and say we support Muslim dictators, but what about the many more nations we do not support and are ruled by dictators? Do these guys get a free pass?
I would be happy if we adopted a Chinese foreign policy in which we do not interfer with countries’ internal problems (enless, of course you’re North Korea, Tibet, Viet Nam, Mongolia or Taiwan, damn hypocrites!).
Then, when the Islamofacists overwhelm Europe, Iran has nuclear missiles aimed at their capitals, they can see that their hatred of us was terribly misplaced.
[quote]orion wrote:
So because our ancestors fucked up (nice bit of collectivism there you “conservative”), you are free to slaughter people now.
Priceless.
[/quote]
Why should it bother you that we are? If anything we learned from you.
[quote]orion wrote:
Since they do not travel halfway around the word to kill people, who cares?
[/quote]
No, you said it was ok since they did not have to travel around the world to kill people, so “who cares?” I merely stated that Europeans DID travel around the world to kill people.
We were speaking of Russia:
I bet the people living under Communism in Europe cared. Plus, with thousands of nuclear ICBMs, why would you have to?
Wanted to pop by and ask europeans to read orion/bota’s posts.
Many Americans find it offensive to be lectured to by members of countries that have caused some of the greatest human suffering in the history of the planet.
We are immediately turned off by phrases such as “we’ve outgrown that.” Or, deflection of the horrors that they’ve caused.
Instead of starting a constructive dialogue with something like, “please, learn from our mistakes” we are treated to an arrogance and snobbishness that has not been earned.
These are some of the the reasons that Americans find it easy to dismiss many European “criticisms” of the U.S.
We get the distinct impression that there is always a convenient excuse to dislike Americans.
The excuses seem to be a front for a titanic inferiority complex.
In summary, if Europeans are interested in actually discussing ideas, eliminate patronizing language.
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
[quote]JeffR wrote:
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
[/quote]
Is it ok if I only talk down to you?
I simply cannot conceive of any other way of adressing you.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Wanted to pop by and ask europeans to read orion/bota’s posts.
Many Americans find it offensive to be lectured to by members of countries that have caused some of the greatest human suffering in the history of the planet.
We are immediately turned off by phrases such as “we’ve outgrown that.” Or, deflection of the horrors that they’ve caused.
Instead of starting a constructive dialogue with something like, “please, learn from our mistakes” we are treated to an arrogance and snobbishness that has not been earned.
These are some of the the reasons that Americans find it easy to dismiss many European “criticisms” of the U.S.
We get the distinct impression that there is always a convenient excuse to dislike Americans.
The excuses seem to be a front for a titanic inferiority complex.
In summary, if Europeans are interested in actually discussing ideas, eliminate patronizing language.
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
[/quote]
Maybe some Europeans are of the opinion that America has not earnt the right to invade countries just for their natural resources.
Also just out of interest how would a continent EARN the right to talk down to a country (by creating it perhaps?)
[quote]orion wrote:
JeffR wrote:
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
Is it ok if I only talk down to you?
I simply cannot conceive of any other way of adressing you.
[/quote]
bota,
I think I can speak for everyone: It would be better if you didn’t talk at all.
You, of all people, can’t talk down to anyone. EVEN lixy.
Thanks in advance.
JeffR
[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Maybe some Europeans are of the opinion that America has not earnt the right to invade countries just for their natural resources.[/quote]
If europeans believed that they would be monster hypocrites. Remember how many countries and entire continents that europeans have RAPED for natural resources.
Further, it’s going to be HARD to contend that the U.S. invaded Iraq to steal it’s oil.
In fact, we are using ZERO Iraqi oil for reconstruction.
We, the American taxpayer, in our benevolence are funding the effort WITHOUT USING ANY IRAQI OIL.
Bet that didn’t make your biased, little headlines.
[quote]Also just out of interest how would a continent EARN the right to talk down to a country (by creating it perhaps?)
[/quote]
You could start by not causing mass murder on an epic scale within living memory. You could also not have sweetheart deals with Iraqi mass murderers while simultaneously giving “morality” lectures to countries who want to solve the problem.
That’s a start.
JeffR
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Wanted to pop by and ask europeans to read orion/bota’s posts.
Many Americans find it offensive to be lectured to by members of countries that have caused some of the greatest human suffering in the history of the planet.
We are immediately turned off by phrases such as “we’ve outgrown that.” Or, deflection of the horrors that they’ve caused.
Instead of starting a constructive dialogue with something like, “please, learn from our mistakes” we are treated to an arrogance and snobbishness that has not been earned.
These are some of the the reasons that Americans find it easy to dismiss many European “criticisms” of the U.S.
We get the distinct impression that there is always a convenient excuse to dislike Americans.
The excuses seem to be a front for a titanic inferiority complex.
In summary, if Europeans are interested in actually discussing ideas, eliminate patronizing language.
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
[/quote]
You do realize that by this definition they could plausibly act disgusted that we pulled off slavery for a damn longed time? That we had segregation for a long ass time? That women only got rights, including suffrage, pretty recently?
The mistakes of past generations cannot pass down blame, in my opinion. If your great, great grandfather owned a slave does that make you a racist who is responsible for African Americans?
[quote]JeffR wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Maybe some Europeans are of the opinion that America has not earnt the right to invade countries just for their natural resources.
If europeans believed that they would be monster hypocrites. Remember how many countries and entire continents that europeans have RAPED for natural resources.
Further, it’s going to be HARD to contend that the U.S. invaded Iraq to steal it’s oil.
In fact, we are using ZERO Iraqi oil for reconstruction.
We, the American taxpayer, in our benevolence are funding the effort WITHOUT USING ANY IRAQI OIL.
Bet that didn’t make your biased, little headlines.
Also just out of interest how would a continent EARN the right to talk down to a country (by creating it perhaps?)
You could start by not causing mass murder on an epic scale within living memory. You could also not have sweetheart deals with Iraqi mass murderers while simultaneously giving “morality” lectures to countries who want to solve the problem.
That’s a start.
JeffR[/quote]
You and HH seem to have differing opinions on this one.
I question the assumption. Does the average European really hate the U.S. or Americans generally?
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Wanted to pop by and ask europeans to read orion/bota’s posts.
Many Americans find it offensive to be lectured to by members of countries that have caused some of the greatest human suffering in the history of the planet.
We are immediately turned off by phrases such as “we’ve outgrown that.” Or, deflection of the horrors that they’ve caused.
Instead of starting a constructive dialogue with something like, “please, learn from our mistakes” we are treated to an arrogance and snobbishness that has not been earned.
These are some of the the reasons that Americans find it easy to dismiss many European “criticisms” of the U.S.
We get the distinct impression that there is always a convenient excuse to dislike Americans.
The excuses seem to be a front for a titanic inferiority complex.
In summary, if Europeans are interested in actually discussing ideas, eliminate patronizing language.
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
You do realize that by this definition they could plausibly act disgusted that we pulled off slavery for a damn longed time? That we had segregation for a long ass time? That women only got rights, including suffrage, pretty recently?
The mistakes of past generations cannot pass down blame, in my opinion. If your great, great grandfather owned a slave does that make you a racist who is responsible for African Americans?
[/quote]
Beowolf,
The difference, of course, is that I’m not trying to tell them how to run their foreign policy. Further, if I were to rail against human slavery, you bet your ass I’d preface it with something like, “We made a monumental mistake in America. Learn from our mistakes.” I CERTAINLY wouldn’t, say something like, “You filthy slaveowners are the scum of the earth. You are the devil’s spawn.”
As an American, that line of attack would open me up to charges of hypocrisy.
See how that works.
What’s worse, is you have slapnuts like bota whose country were willing participants to unimaginable horror within LIVING MEMORY.
I’ve said this before, either the euro-weenies don’t know their own recent history, or they are counting on us not knowing theirs.
Neither their ignorance nor their insulting assumptions about us, are excusable.
They have NOT earned the right to speak down to us about foreign or domestic policies.
JeffR
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
You and HH seem to have differing opinions on this one.[/quote]
It’s ok to have different opinions.
However, please explain what you are referring to.
Thanks.
JeffR
My friend lived in Germany for a yea and said all the girls loved him there because he was from the US. My friend is not a liar.
“the europeans” do not dislike “the americans”. most of the people here are opposed to the foreign politics of the US - well, that is something we share with many of you.
we sometimes fail to differ between politics and the actual people living in the US. that is a mistake.
I understand that you can not stand when we talk “down” to you. But I urge you to listen to some of the voices from abroad.
When I read articles like the latest by Naomi Wolf about the US turning into a closed society I am really worried. We have been there. Learn from our bad example. What will happen to the free world when the US is not a free anymore?
as I have said before I don´t think there is a big difference between a common american and the common european. we share a lot of values and live by the same code of honor.
[quote]Mishima wrote:
…
When I read articles like the latest by Naomi Wolf about the US turning into a closed society I am really worried. We have been there. Learn from our bad example. What will happen to the free world when the US is not a free anymore?
… [/quote]
She is crying wolf.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Mishima wrote:
…
When I read articles like the latest by Naomi Wolf about the US turning into a closed society I am really worried. We have been there. Learn from our bad example. What will happen to the free world when the US is not a free anymore?
…
She is crying wolf. [/quote]
That is because he is allready at your door, huffing and puffing…
What do you think your house is made of?
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Wanted to pop by and ask europeans to read orion/bota’s posts.
Many Americans find it offensive to be lectured to by members of countries that have caused some of the greatest human suffering in the history of the planet.
We are immediately turned off by phrases such as “we’ve outgrown that.” Or, deflection of the horrors that they’ve caused.
Instead of starting a constructive dialogue with something like, “please, learn from our mistakes” we are treated to an arrogance and snobbishness that has not been earned.
These are some of the the reasons that Americans find it easy to dismiss many European “criticisms” of the U.S.
We get the distinct impression that there is always a convenient excuse to dislike Americans.
The excuses seem to be a front for a titanic inferiority complex.
In summary, if Europeans are interested in actually discussing ideas, eliminate patronizing language.
You haven’t earned the right to talk down to us.
JeffR
You do realize that by this definition they could plausibly act disgusted that we pulled off slavery for a damn longed time? That we had segregation for a long ass time? That women only got rights, including suffrage, pretty recently?
The mistakes of past generations cannot pass down blame, in my opinion. If your great, great grandfather owned a slave does that make you a racist who is responsible for African Americans?
Beowolf,
The difference, of course, is that I’m not trying to tell them how to run their foreign policy. Further, if I were to rail against human slavery, you bet your ass I’d preface it with something like, “We made a monumental mistake in America. Learn from our mistakes.” I CERTAINLY wouldn’t, say something like, “You filthy slaveowners are the scum of the earth. You are the devil’s spawn.”
As an American, that line of attack would open me up to charges of hypocrisy.
See how that works.
What’s worse, is you have slapnuts like bota whose country were willing participants to unimaginable horror within LIVING MEMORY.
I’ve said this before, either the euro-weenies don’t know their own recent history, or they are counting on us not knowing theirs.
Neither their ignorance nor their insulting assumptions about us, are excusable.
They have NOT earned the right to speak down to us about foreign or domestic policies.
JeffR
[/quote]
so you justify doing some bad shit by saying that some other people did some even badder shit before you?