[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
You can bitch and moan about how “unfair” God is all you want. That is in its essence, defiance and unbelief, and something you get to take up with God all by yourself. He has spelled out His plan, made it simple, exemplified His Mercy and YOU know it and understand it to the extent that any of us with a finite intellect can.
You would do well to take what God has revealed to YOU and deal with it and not worry so much about hypothetical bad guys on hypothetical deathbeds being visited, or not, by hypothetical priests.
Or you could continue to let it vex you so as is obvious on the forum and live your life a miserable man with no purpose.[/quote]
It’s the belief in a god that operates in this arbitrary way that I find puzzling. It seems that you have no answer either, except that it is god’s will. Sounds a lot to me like Tiribulus’s response when challenged on double predestination.
I’m not sure why you’re characterizing me as a miserable man with no purpose, unless to reinforce your belief that people who don’t share your religious views must be miserable and without purpose :)[/quote]
It’s not arbitrary. It’s very clear and logical. We are warned multiple times in the Bible thus: Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee.
Again, this is an extension of the point I’ve been making throughout this entire thread. God made absolutely everything, including the rules. Then he gave us the rules. Sometimes we don’t know why a rule exists, but we are still bound to follow it. You don’t see people making these arguments against gravity. Talking about how unfair gravity is. All of us should be able to fly where ever we want, when we want, and then to take advantage of the weight granting properties of gravity when we want, as well.
So, break the rules, pay the consequences if you are truly unrepentant. I don’t see how you guys don’t see the other side of this. It’s not, OMG like Hitler was sooooo bad and if he just said the magic words before he died he’d go to Heaven and Ghandi wouldn’t.
This demonstrates, rather, exactly how patient and loving God truly is, and how human you are. In that, so long as we just ask and mean it, no matter how damned bad we have been, anybody can be forgiven. You don’t see the beauty in that?
[/quote]
Saying that god made the rules, and therefore god defines good and evil, is exactly what Tiribulus would argue in his defense of double predestination. Who are we to question god? Unfortunately, this logic makes it possible to believe in any kind of god at all, irrespective of what we might personally believe is moral or not.
My point is that a priest, for example, can be the catalyst for someone to “just ask and mean it”. Why should someone be damned forever just because they never got the catalyst, when someone else did?[/quote]
It’s not the only argument for choosing virtue over sin, it’s the one that answered the question T2 was asking, to wit, “Are God’s rules not arbitrary?”
Though the above should be all we require as justification to be good, in addition to these, despite that we may not or outright refuse to see them, there are also actual earthly consequences that come from choosing to consciously defy God’s will(sin), just as there are rewards for virtuous behavior, though it may seem there are not.
Example: (from Wikipedia) [quote][Mother] Teresa wrote in her diary that her first year was fraught with difficulties. She had no income and had to resort to begging for food and supplies. Teresa experienced doubt, loneliness and the temptation to return to the comfort of convent life during these early months. She wrote in her diary:
Our Lord wants me to be a free nun covered with the poverty of the cross. Today I learned a good lesson. The poverty of the poor must be so hard for them. While looking for a home I walked and walked till my arms and legs ached. I thought how much they must ache in body and soul, looking for a home, food and health. Then the comfort of Loreto [her former order] came to tempt me. 'You have only to say the word and all that will be yours again,' the Tempter kept on saying ... Of free choice, my God, and out of love for you, I desire to remain and do whatever be your Holy will in my regard. I did not let a single tear come.[/quote]
This certainly contrasts strongly with our current culture of self-worship and the insatiable demand for the immediate fulfillment of our every desire. Not too many people would argue that Mother Teresa’s life did not produce (massive) benefits. But, even for her, it was often difficult to recognize what was happening.
In the same insidious manner, sin produces the opposite effect. Like wooden supports for a house built in a swamp, quietly rotting. The house seems fine, maybe for years even, but one day, the entire structure is going to give way and collapse into the murk.
