Why Did God Create......

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
181

[quote]Zooguido wrote:
How can you say that the Christian faith is the right faith? The Jews have their faith and their beliefs that go back further than that of the Christian faith. The Muslims have their faith and their Prophet. Yet, in my eyes, the Muslim faith is clearly the most rational and reasonable. I can’t believe that you people are able to honestly practice a religion that has been devoutly corrupt for more than 2000 years.

From slaughtering Muslims and any non-Christians without a valid cause during the Crusades to the papal authority raping, sodomizing, and living lives of lust and grandeur you’d clearly think that someone would wake the fuck up and realize that this shit is beyond absurd. Yet you still stand by this faith that you believe to be so righteous in all regards.

It’s the same crap today just in different context.

TL;DR - This. Shit. Is. Fucked.[/quote]

182

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
All God’s signs should line up, by a kind of trigonometry. There are at least seven such signs: (1) Scripture, (2) church teaching, (3) human reason (which God created), (4) the appropriate situation, or circumstances (which he controls by his providence), (5) conscience, our innate sense of right and wrong, (6) our individual personal bent or desire or instincts, and (7) prayer. Test your choice by holding it up before God’s face. If one of these seven voices says no, don’t do it. If none say no, do it.[/quote]

Number tree rules one and two out for me, but the rest is okay and I try to use it. I usually don’t pray, though, but I have these conversations with my buddy silent jesus when the need arises. He helps me to sort my thoughts.

183

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
All God’s signs should line up, by a kind of trigonometry. There are at least seven such signs: (1) Scripture, (2) church teaching, (3) human reason (which God created), (4) the appropriate situation, or circumstances (which he controls by his providence), (5) conscience, our innate sense of right and wrong, (6) our individual personal bent or desire or instincts, and (7) prayer. Test your choice by holding it up before God’s face. If one of these seven voices says no, don’t do it. If none say no, do it.[/quote]

Number tree rules one and two out for me, but the rest is okay and I try to use it. I usually don’t pray, though, but I have these conversations with my buddy silent jesus when the need arises. He helps me to sort my thoughts.[/quote]

How does the one cancel out the other two (just curious)?

184

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
All God’s signs should line up, by a kind of trigonometry. There are at least seven such signs: (1) Scripture, (2) church teaching, (3) human reason (which God created), (4) the appropriate situation, or circumstances (which he controls by his providence), (5) conscience, our innate sense of right and wrong, (6) our individual personal bent or desire or instincts, and (7) prayer. Test your choice by holding it up before God’s face. If one of these seven voices says no, don’t do it. If none say no, do it.[/quote]

Number tree rules one and two out for me, but the rest is okay and I try to use it. I usually don’t pray, though, but I have these conversations with my buddy silent jesus when the need arises. He helps me to sort my thoughts.[/quote]

How does the one cancel out the other two (just curious)?[/quote]

Number 3 tells me that the Bible is a book written by men, so it’s actually a collection of opinions to me. But you are right in asking how, it doesn’t rule out the possibility that ancient men could sometimes have an answer for me.
Number 3 tells also that since I really don’t believe in what my lutheran church teaches me I also shouldn’t actively search for answers from them.

185

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Number 3 tells me that the Bible is a book written by men, so it’s actually a collection of opinions to me. But you are right in asking how, it doesn’t rule out the possibility that ancient men could sometimes have an answer for me.
Number 3 tells also that since I really don’t believe in what my lutheran church teaches me I also shouldn’t actively search for answers from them.[/quote]

Well half way there, well 1/4th the way there I suppose, go back another 1500 years to the beginning of the Catholic Church and you’ll find answers. :wink:

186

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Number 3 tells me that the Bible is a book written by men, so it’s actually a collection of opinions to me. But you are right in asking how, it doesn’t rule out the possibility that ancient men could sometimes have an answer for me.
Number 3 tells also that since I really don’t believe in what my lutheran church teaches me I also shouldn’t actively search for answers from them.[/quote]

Well half way there, well 1/4th the way there I suppose, go back another 1500 years to the beginning of the Catholic Church and you’ll find answers. ;)[/quote]

If I go a thousand years back I’ll be a pagan. Considering my ancestry that would be Odin, Thor and the rest in Asgard, not Finno-ugric paganism, which is totally different.

187

[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
If I go a thousand years back I’ll be a pagan. Considering my ancestry that would be Odin, Thor and the rest in Asgard, not Finno-ugric paganism, which is totally different.[/quote]

And, you would be pleasantly surprised that we Christianized all those traditions. :wink:

Anyway, goodnight.

188

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I remember God created the heavens and the Earth , I do not rember anything about God creating the Angels or the Devil. I remember Lucifer being full of pride and was expelled from Heaven , BUt I never heard that God created angels or Satan[/quote]

God created everything, so by extension, he created satan. [/quote]

You will have to excuse me , where did it say God created everything, did he create himself [/quote]

God doesn’t have a beginning, he wasn’t created.[/quote]

I was asking for scripture to back up that god did not create himself or satan ?
[/quote]

Wait, I do not understand. You are asking for scripture to back up what exactly?[/quote]

That God created the angels [/quote]

Okay, why does there have to be scripture to back it up?[/quote]

Well, there certainly is scripture to back it up: Ezekiel 28:15.

I suggested to someone way back yonder to read Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. Why do I have to come back on here and do it again? Oh yeah, that’s right, it’s Pitbullllllllll, the dull knife in the drawer.[/quote]

I read it , there is nothing there about God Creating Satan , It appears to be that God is telling Satan that he was there in the garden of Eden but no mention of creation, Oh wise one :slight_smile:

189

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< The old Protestant myth alive today, I see. Though a few in history have heard the voice of God, too many Christians walking around today thinking they should be hearing the voice of God. >>>[/quote]Not the OLD protestant myths. The NEW protestant errors. Nobody “hears” God’s voice today. Nobody. However, He does communicate Spirit to spirit with His children. That is not a given though and those He does this with are not necessarily more special or holy. He wants faith before all which according to the 11th of Hebrews is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. What’s interesting Chris is that many of your criticisms of non Catholics are valid. I share them which is the point. The answer is not the papacy. It’s a return to the gospel restored in the reformation. The one that is nearly extinct in the western world due to modernistic liberal heresies and flagrantly sinful practice in the name of Jesus. There are more hints here regarding our other discussion I just realized. Work calls now. This was a very incomplete post.

I pray that both Catholics and non remember who they are and regurgitate all this squishy post vat. II poisonous ecumenism. It’s bad for both of us. I am not a “departed brethren” to be kissed and coddled. I am a raging heretic to be burned alive for my blasphemy. I have no respect for either side of this evangelical/Catholic orgy that’s going on. It’s a trick of the enemy through Rome to outflank, castrate and absorb all those claiming Christ in the earth. It will not work on me or mine.

190

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I remember God created the heavens and the Earth , I do not rember anything about God creating the Angels or the Devil. I remember Lucifer being full of pride and was expelled from Heaven , BUt I never heard that God created angels or Satan[/quote]

God created everything, so by extension, he created satan. [/quote]

You will have to excuse me , where did it say God created everything, did he create himself [/quote]

God doesn’t have a beginning, he wasn’t created.[/quote]

I was asking for scripture to back up that god did not create himself or satan ?
[/quote]

Wait, I do not understand. You are asking for scripture to back up what exactly?[/quote]

That God created the angels [/quote]

Okay, why does there have to be scripture to back it up?[/quote]

It doesn’t , I just feel it is presumptuous to act as it is a given. There is no mention (TO MY Knowlege ) that god ever claimed to create Angels

191

No one is saved by anything but grace alone.

just sayin

192

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
obfuscating the issue([/quote]

Good word little man (ruffles hair)…YOU’RE A BIG BOY![/quote]

Little man? You’re twelve aren’t you?

Also, LOL@ at this desperate attempt at ignoring my criticism of you. [/quote]

You feisty little fella! Someday that will serve you well when you grow up and get a job and start a family and do all those things that we adults do. So keep it up. I’m actually quite proud of you junior.

193

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:
How can you say that the Christian faith is the right faith? The Jews have their faith and their beliefs that go back further than that of the Christian faith. The Muslims have their faith and their Prophet. Yet, in my eyes, the Muslim faith is clearly the most rational and reasonable. I can’t believe that you people are able to honestly practice a religion that has been devoutly corrupt for more than 2000 years.

From slaughtering Muslims and any non-Christians without a valid cause during the Crusades to the papal authority raping, sodomizing, and living lives of lust and grandeur you’d clearly think that someone would wake the fuck up and realize that this shit is beyond absurd. Yet you still stand by this faith that you believe to be so righteous in all regards.

It’s the same crap today just in different context.

TL;DR - This. Shit. Is. Fucked.[/quote]

Yawn.[/quote]

And this is from a 21 year old expert.

Come on you have to enjoy this Push. Hey at least he’s 3 years older than Tumble Time.

194

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:
How can you say that the Christian faith is the right faith? The Jews have their faith and their beliefs that go back further than that of the Christian faith. The Muslims have their faith and their Prophet. Yet, in my eyes, the Muslim faith is clearly the most rational and reasonable. I can’t believe that you people are able to honestly practice a religion that has been devoutly corrupt for more than 2000 years.

From slaughtering Muslims and any non-Christians without a valid cause during the Crusades to the papal authority raping, sodomizing, and living lives of lust and grandeur you’d clearly think that someone would wake the fuck up and realize that this shit is beyond absurd. Yet you still stand by this faith that you believe to be so righteous in all regards.

It’s the same crap today just in different context.

TL;DR - This. Shit. Is. Fucked.[/quote]

Yawn.[/quote]

And this is from a 21 year old expert.

Come on you have to enjoy this Push. Hey at least he’s 3 years older than Tumble Time.
[/quote]

Therefore 3 years more correct? And I suppose if I was 90 I would never be wrong about anything ever again?

Ultimately, this is just a cop-out you all have come up with to avoid saying what you really think; I’m not christian enough to be correct. Of course you can’t just come out and say this so you instead look for any insignificant piece of information you can find about someone and claim that they cannot possibly be correct based purely on this irrelevant piece of trivia and if you can’t find ANY information on them, you say they can’t be right because they’re anonymous (lol).

Well ZEB, YOU are anonymous, so I guess that means you are wrong by default and you’re younger than I am (at least you seem to have the maturity of someone much younger than me) so I guess that means you’re wrong even if you stop being anonymous…

And finally, Tumble Time? SRSLY? You couldn’t come up with something better than Tumble Time?

195

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Well, google tells me that these laws aren’t decreed obsolete in the bible and you’re cherry picking which verses to follow… but I doubt that’s what you wanted me to find :wink:

[/quote]

Google nor anyone else told you any such thing, DisingenuousTime. You know it. I know it. Your mom knows it.

The only cherry picker is Tony-the-pseudo-Bible-scholar-Tiger. Your posts and mine reflect that. You have no idea what you’re talking about it; you’re simply arguing because you’re on the internet. You’re throwing stuff up hoping it will stick. You’re certainly more capable talking about medieval Irish history but you’re hopelessly out of your league here.
[/quote]

http://www.atheistperspective.net/p/bible-verses.html << Oh well, you can’t win em all…

Seriously though, you can find any expressed opinion on Google… It just wasn’t a smart move to try and call me out on something than could be shown to be true simply by using Google to find a site that suggests Christians cherry-pick.

I don’t know why you’re trying to make it out as though I came here to argue with you. YOU responded to ME. I’m not forcing you to respond to my comments and you’re free to not respond to me anytime.

This is a very simple game of logic; God has condemned wearing clothes with mixed fibers, eating shellfish, etc. You say these laws are obsolete so I ask you were in the bible these laws have been decreed as such. If this can’t be done (and I don’t think it can) then I guess these things are still banned as far as God’s concerned. [/quote]

Have you ever read the bible? Or are you criticizing something you’ve never read? I am guessing the latter…I had the feeling this was another set up. Another pseudo genius atheist who thinks he found reason in the unreasonable tenet of atheism.
I’ll give you the one main reason atheism is flawed at it’s very core. It posits that something can come from nothing and the things can happen for no reason what so ever. Now, what makes it even more ridiculous with all this belief and trust in science is that there is not a single solitary mircofragment of evidence to even remotely support such a ridiculous notion.

The difference between you and I is that believe in something that is actually possible and you believe in something that is verifiable impossible…Now that you let the cat out of the bag of your true intentions, let’s see how smart you are:
Prove something can come from nothing, as an atheist you MUST believe this to be true or you are not an atheist. It’s that simple…

I won’t be holding my breath.[/quote]

That’s great and all but… where exactly did I say I was an atheist again?

I won’t be holding my breath. ;)[/quote]

You said you don’t believe in God, so, same thing.

196

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I remember God created the heavens and the Earth , I do not rember anything about God creating the Angels or the Devil. I remember Lucifer being full of pride and was expelled from Heaven , BUt I never heard that God created angels or Satan[/quote]

God created everything, so by extension, he created satan. [/quote]

You will have to excuse me , where did it say God created everything, did he create himself [/quote]

God doesn’t have a beginning, he wasn’t created.[/quote]

I was asking for scripture to back up that god did not create himself or satan ?
[/quote]

Wait, I do not understand. You are asking for scripture to back up what exactly?[/quote]

That God created the angels [/quote]

Okay, why does there have to be scripture to back it up?[/quote]

Well, there certainly is scripture to back it up: Ezekiel 28:15.

I suggested to someone way back yonder to read Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. Why do I have to come back on here and do it again? Oh yeah, that’s right, it’s Pitbullllllllll, the dull knife in the drawer.[/quote]

Oh wise one , can you even read ?

197

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Well, google tells me that these laws aren’t decreed obsolete in the bible and you’re cherry picking which verses to follow… but I doubt that’s what you wanted me to find :wink:

[/quote]

Google nor anyone else told you any such thing, DisingenuousTime. You know it. I know it. Your mom knows it.

The only cherry picker is Tony-the-pseudo-Bible-scholar-Tiger. Your posts and mine reflect that. You have no idea what you’re talking about it; you’re simply arguing because you’re on the internet. You’re throwing stuff up hoping it will stick. You’re certainly more capable talking about medieval Irish history but you’re hopelessly out of your league here.
[/quote]

http://www.atheistperspective.net/p/bible-verses.html << Oh well, you can’t win em all…

Seriously though, you can find any expressed opinion on Google… It just wasn’t a smart move to try and call me out on something than could be shown to be true simply by using Google to find a site that suggests Christians cherry-pick.

I don’t know why you’re trying to make it out as though I came here to argue with you. YOU responded to ME. I’m not forcing you to respond to my comments and you’re free to not respond to me anytime.

This is a very simple game of logic; God has condemned wearing clothes with mixed fibers, eating shellfish, etc. You say these laws are obsolete so I ask you were in the bible these laws have been decreed as such. If this can’t be done (and I don’t think it can) then I guess these things are still banned as far as God’s concerned. [/quote]

Have you ever read the bible? Or are you criticizing something you’ve never read? I am guessing the latter…I had the feeling this was another set up. Another pseudo genius atheist who thinks he found reason in the unreasonable tenet of atheism.
I’ll give you the one main reason atheism is flawed at it’s very core. It posits that something can come from nothing and the things can happen for no reason what so ever. Now, what makes it even more ridiculous with all this belief and trust in science is that there is not a single solitary mircofragment of evidence to even remotely support such a ridiculous notion.

The difference between you and I is that believe in something that is actually possible and you believe in something that is verifiable impossible…Now that you let the cat out of the bag of your true intentions, let’s see how smart you are:
Prove something can come from nothing, as an atheist you MUST believe this to be true or you are not an atheist. It’s that simple…

I won’t be holding my breath.[/quote]

That’s great and all but… where exactly did I say I was an atheist again?

I won’t be holding my breath. ;)[/quote]

You said you don’t believe in God, so, same thing.[/quote]

And where did I say that?

198

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Therefore 3 years more correct? And I suppose if I was 90 I would never be wrong about anything ever again?

Ultimately, this is just a cop-out you all have come up with to avoid saying what you really think; I’m not christian enough to be correct. Of course you can’t just come out and say this so you instead look for any insignificant piece of information you can find about someone and claim that they cannot possibly be correct based purely on this irrelevant piece of trivia and if you can’t find ANY information on them, you say they can’t be right because they’re anonymous (lol).

Well ZEB, YOU are anonymous, so I guess that means you are wrong by default and you’re younger than I am (at least you seem to have the maturity of someone much younger than me) so I guess that means you’re wrong even if you stop being anonymous…

And finally, Tumble Time? SRSLY? You couldn’t come up with something better than Tumble Time?[/quote]

Look skippy I’ve been kind so far. And I know that in the land of the Internet that age is not supposed to mean anything (given the number of teens who inhabit this platform) But, I no more respect your opinion on spiritual matters than you would respect the opinion of an 8 year old. I would have nothing to say if you were droning on about High School courses, or things that you’ve lived with and actually understand. But in the long run age and experience mean a great deal. If they meant nothing there would be no age limit on driving, drinking voting and entering the military. Let’s face it when a government entity, or large corporation is looking for a really good man (or woman) to head up a new division they’re not thinking “what we need is a really smart teenager to pull this off…Someone with Internet experience…”
They’re looking for depth and breadth of knowledge and experience. And all of this just doesn’t come at the age of 18.

It really is nothing personal. If you were a Christian mouthing off as you’ve been doing I’d tell you the same thing.

Now maybe there are other teenagers and 20 something’s here on T Nation who care what an 18 year old thinks about spiritual matters. If so great have a ball. But I’m not one of them.

Good luck, and don’t forget to brush after every meal (ha…I had to throw one more at you kid :wink:

Your Friend,

ZEB

199

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zooguido wrote:
How can you say that the Christian faith is the right faith? The Jews have their faith and their beliefs that go back further than that of the Christian faith. The Muslims have their faith and their Prophet. Yet, in my eyes, the Muslim faith is clearly the most rational and reasonable. I can’t believe that you people are able to honestly practice a religion that has been devoutly corrupt for more than 2000 years.

From slaughtering Muslims and any non-Christians without a valid cause during the Crusades to the papal authority raping, sodomizing, and living lives of lust and grandeur you’d clearly think that someone would wake the fuck up and realize that this shit is beyond absurd. Yet you still stand by this faith that you believe to be so righteous in all regards.

It’s the same crap today just in different context.

TL;DR - This. Shit. Is. Fucked.[/quote]

Yawn.[/quote]

And this is from a 21 year old expert.

Come on you have to enjoy this Push. Hey at least he’s 3 years older than Tumble Time.
[/quote]

Thats right, when someone makes a valid point highlighting how painfully flawed and stupid religion is then the only response can be to ignore it. Thats what the religious do best, keep ignoring the evidence.
I find it hysterical how your defence is always young = stupid & entitled to no opinion, yet you are a grown man who believes in satan…LOL!!!

200

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Oh, I see. Having kids suddenly reverses the lack of evidence for your creator and magically will make me accept a God who would allow (relatively) arbitrary finite actions to result in eternal torture… Makes perfect sense.[/quote]

No.

Again you miss the point; which is the point. [/quote]

??? Are you just making this up as you go along?
[/quote]

No. I know it’s difficult for you to imagine, but there actually is someone other than yourself who knows what he’s talking about.

[quote]
Alright then, what exactly does having kids have to do with the discussion we were having?[/quote]

You said this:

…which I believe is nearly the same advice Jeffrey Dahmer’s parents gave him.