[quote]Clark Call wrote:
Nate Dogg, remember when you came back a while ago, you probably should have stayed away. Those are some of the most uninformed comments I have ever heard in my life, you put Michael Moore to shame with you weak grasp of political concepts. [/quote]
I have yet to watch a movie or anything by Michael Moore. But thanks.
And don’t worry, I’m out!
p.s. I did send letters to my senators and congressmen.
Even states that are considered Midwest (MI, WI, IL, PA) mostly voted for W.
You look at the county breakdowns on CNN and it cleary displays that the counties with major cities (Detroit, Chicago, Millwaukee, Philadelphia) were the only counties that swayed the vote in Kerry’s direction.
He won the popular vote too doggone it.
Kerry’s views were way too radical and undefined in the end, I believe.
America chose a leader. Kerry couldn’t lead himself out of a piss soaked sack.
Granted, things like supplement legislation and the patriot act are indeed a bummer. But I believe the next 4 years will show a more focused administration, focused on the success of this country, not on how many hummers you can get in the oval office.
Cripes look at the stock market over the last two days, as an example.
B.
“[quote]Testy1 wrote:
Because the majority are sheeple led by one or two issues that are important to their own little world. How ironic it will be when their 15 year old kids get drafted 3 years from now because we still won’t have an exit strategy.[/quote]”
Thanks Testy, that was priceless!!!
Mark my words: No draft in the next four years, exit from Iraq, and no John Kerry.
Have a great day!!!
JeffR
Proff X and Nate Dog get on here and rail against the direction this country is going.
The conservative movement just won the biggest election in recent history - and in one of the most decisive ways since the 19th century.
You want to demonize the christian right’s constitutional right to vote. This is elitism at it’s sickest.
How are your votes more important than the ‘dangerous christian right’s’? Are they more informed? Are they some how on a higher plane than those stupid christians?
If this country is headed south - which I happen to disagree with - it is doing so with a mandate: 11-0 in gay marraige referendums. a titghening of the teenage abortion rules. A net pick up of 4-5 seats in the senate. The most votes for a president in the history of our nation, and the first majority for a president since Bush senior.
How is this a sad day? More people than ever have gone to the polls and let their voices be heard.
I voted for Kerry, I truly hoped that he would take this election. Guess what though, I don’t hate Bush. I do however disagree with how he has run this country. I don’t like, I guess I even fear, the fact that he is going to run this country for another 4 years. But there is nothing I can do about that and there is nothing anyone else can do about it. so all this bitching an moaning does nothing to help our country. Take a look at how Kerry handled everything. once it was a given he lost he made a very elequent speech and wasn’t bitching and moaning and downing this country, I don’t care if you voted for Bush at least respect that. On another note I think the republicans had some good campaign strategy as a group putting the marriage definition on the ballots in some states got out the republican vote a very Intelligent thing (yeah ment to capitalize it). Sometimes you lose, you have to do something to fix it for the next time.
BiggieBen
Bush won primarily because Kerry was not a good candidate. I am a Republican and I voted for Bush. I am not blind and I recognize that Bush has his faults. Bush however, says what he means and means what he says. I think he makes decisions according to what he feels is right, not cowering to ever changing public opinion.
Kerry said that he had a plan for the War in Iraq and the War on Terror, but never eloaborated. In the past 20 years in the US Senate, he sponsored 2 bills that became law. He criticized Vietnam Veterans as being “war criminals” and then claims to be proud of his service.
Kerry is a great public speaker and Bush is just plain horrible. Bush however comes across as being sincere and honest. The Democrats needed to nominate someone with more credibility and substance, rather than a good public speaker.
Kerry was just not the right man for the job.
[quote]WguitarG wrote:
BTW, separation of church and state did not even become a “coined” term until the 1960’s. [/quote]
Thomas Jefferson wrote this phrase, “thus building a wall of separation between church and State…” on January 1, 1802, (11 years after the First Amendment was ratified) in a private letter to the Danbury Baptist Association to assure them that the federal government could not and would not try to establish a national denomination.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
11-0 in gay marraige referendums. a titghening of the teenage abortion rules. [/quote]
Those are not good things for homosexuals or teen-agers. And I don’t agree with or support laws, amendments or rules banning same-sex marriages or tightening control of teen-agers or any woman who decides to have an abortion.
So yeah, I have a problem with people who use religion or their morals to prevent others from making a choice or decision.
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
rainjack wrote:
11-0 in gay marraige referendums. a titghening of the teenage abortion rules.
Those are not good things for homosexuals or teen-agers. And I don’t agree with or support laws, amendments or rules banning same-sex marriages or tightening control of teen-agers or any woman who decides to have an abortion.
So yeah, I have a problem with people who use religion or their morals to prevent others from making a choice or decision.[/quote]
If you look at it the other way around you could say the same thing: “I have a problem with homosexuals who want to use marriage to justify their relationships.” As this has never been done you are in fact attempting to change the norm.
By the way a strong majority of the US population disagrees with you!
[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Roy Batty wrote:
Sadly, it is as I predicted as well. Actually it was a little closer than I predicted. I thought Bush would be closer to the 60% mark on the popular vote.
You all know my views on Bush, so I won’t re-hash them here. Despite my resignation that Bush would win, it doesn’t make me any less depressed about what is happening in America right now. Especially considering the sweep of Republicans in Congress and Senate races. My main concern is the balance of powers… Conservatives will now be able to place the one or two seats on the Supreme Court, and with a republican congress and president there won’t be any resistance to advancing some of their more draconian agenda.
I am also concerned about the effect on our economy in the world market. A study I heard about on NPR recently indicates that many countries that have previously eagerly bought American goods are stopping, and we just haven’t felt the impact on this country yet. Many of you loudly exclaim “fuck the rest of the world”, claiming that you don’t care about our reputation with our former allies and everyone else. That attitude will come back to bite us in the ass in the next four years.
The fact that evangelical Christians turned out in such high numbers is a scary thing to me. So many in America want to govern this country according to Biblical Law. I don’t think people realize what they are bringing on to themselves by advancing this agenda. There is a reason that the constitution had such a large wedge between the powers of the church and the state. Our strength in the last century has been our diversity. If we actually become a “Christian nation” as so many fundamentalists hope for, we will lose that and become stagnant. New technology will suffer, and so will individuals’ rights as private citizens. I hope I am just overreacting and that this doesn’t come about. Maybe I am just being paranoid, but with no more resistance from congress we will soon find out if I am right or wrong. To be totally ironic, I pray that I’m wrong!
I pretty much agree with everything you just wrote. We now have a government that, while saying it is against “big government”, will grant more power to the government than we have probably ever seen in history. Using the church as its front, I hate to say it, but it seems we are entering more into a “holy war” than a “war on terror”. The 21st Century’s version of the crusades?
I agree as well. It is a sad day in the U.S. I’m disappointed.
Maybe this holy war will become what those who follow the bible refer to as “Revelations.” Bush could very well be the anti-Christ.
[/quote]
I couldn’t agree with you more Nate Dogg! This country is in alot of trouble and I feel sorry for the working man.
“I mean what are we protecting ourselves from by not allowing Gays and Lebians to get married and toss the dice just like any straight couple. I don’t get the big problem here, or why do we have to actually outlaw people from expressing their love.
BiggieBen”
for me personally I think it has more to do with ruining it for someone else. If married couples are going to view it as a disgrace to marriage then why push the issue? Why can’t they be happy with Civil Unions? Is there much legal difference? I actually thought Civil Unions had more economic benefit? BB?
Plus the thing that really got me was the way these liberal judges just started going out and marrying all these gay people when they knew it was being discussed and challenged. That is just childish and it pissed people off. I bet a lot of people who really didn’t care one way or another got pissed because a ton of these people tried to cheat and bypass the system to change a law. Or identify one. That is the legislatures job and people have a right to get pissed over that.
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
BiggieBen,
“Sometimes you lose, you have to do something to fix it for the next time.”
Exactly right. The Democratic Party needs to fix it for next time. It’s paramount that the nation have two string parties, and the Democrats aren’t holding up their end of the bargain?
Back to the original question - why did Bush win?
I’ll offer this explanation. Look at the electoral map. Kerry won the West Coast and the Northeast. Look at the giant swath of red states. This is where, by and large, the ‘common man’ lives.
The Democratic desperately want to be and advertise themselves as the party of the ‘common man’, the populist party. But they don’t win in the areas where the ‘common man’ lives. Why?
Here’s why - Democrats can’t have it both ways and it’s starting to show. Democrats claim to be the champion of the ‘common man’, but they sneer the elitist’s sneer at all the things the ‘common man’ holds dear - his values, priorities, and goals. It’s impossible to be a populist when you hold in disdain all that which is important to the lower classes.
And so we have not a blue state across the broad expanse of America. Kerry tried to come across as the ‘common man’ but couldn’t sell it, because it isn’t true.
I live in the guts of Cuyahoga county - ground zero for the Ohio vote - and if I had a dollar for every time I heard some Democrat say something pithy about ‘rednecks’ showing up to deliver Bush the presidency, or how no one with any ‘intelligence’ could ever vote for a bumpkin like Bush, I’d have retired by the afternoon.
As is, this snotty elitism is pushing the Democrats into the political wilderness. Word to the wise, Democrats - if you want someone to vote for you, it helps if you actually respect that voter.
Till then, enjoy your loss, not only in the Presidency, but in Congress.
[quote]doogie wrote:
WguitarG wrote:
BTW, separation of church and state did not even become a “coined” term until the 1960’s.
Thomas Jefferson wrote this phrase, “thus building a wall of separation between church and State…” on January 1, 1802, (11 years after the First Amendment was ratified) in a private letter to the Danbury Baptist Association to assure them that the federal government could not and would not try to establish a national denomination. [/quote]
The phrase was in response to a rumor that the Congregationalists were attempting to establish a national religion and dictate to men how to worship, it was utilized to simply reiterate that fact, but the lengths to which we take it today are by no means what our founding fathers intended. The goal was to end religious persecution and to allow men to worship God how they pleased, not to make Him unconstitutional to bring up in conjunction with the government. After all, the blessings of liberty and self-evident truths discussed in the Declaration of Independance did not come from T.J.'s ass. He was referring to blessings from God. You have to look at the Declaration and the Constitution as “one” document to understand. The phrase did not become popular until the 1960’s with all the radical movements going on.
Also, the Constitution had 55 contributors, 52 of which were evangelical Christians. Yeah…we really have done aweful these past 200 years, now lets deem Christian influence as a negative and see what happens to the nation. (note sarcasm). I think Roy Batty needs to take a closer look at the backgroun of the founding fathers and the conglomeration of documents written by these fine men. That last paragraph was not toward you doogie.
This election just proved more to me why the american people are the dumbest in the free world.
How many of you guys work that voted for bush. Congrats, you just made your life harder.
How many are making more then 300k a year? Didn’t think so, great for us “working americans”.
Use creatine, probably won’t in the next four years.
and gay marriage? All the “christians” on hear are full of shit. Does the bible preach thou shall not kill? How many scriptures in the bible are against killing, and how many are against homosexuality? Do you even know?? Did you even take into account voting for a man responsible for DEATHS, innocent or guilty? No, because like our president, you are full of shit.
Not to mention bush knew about 9/11, he knew about what WAS’nt in iraq, and yet he is still in iraq policing the world. During 9/11 the fbi was working on a case of a up-class whore house in st louis instead of the taliban. His moto should have been “We found the whores in 2004.”
First,
Roy Batty said,
“The fact that evangelical Christians turned out in such high numbers is a scary thing to me.” Are you some sort of dictator? You are scared that christians came out to vote? I thought that the US was a democracy, where all citizens have the right to vote. Now you want to say who can and cannot vote.
You also said,
“There is a reason that the constitution had such a large wedge between the powers of the church and the state.”
History lesson for you and Professor X and Nate Dogg. Nowhere in the US Constitution does it say, ‘There shall be separation between church and state’. The First amendment says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut.
Thomas was saying this because back in England, the British government ran the ‘Church of England’. Your (U.S.) founding fathers did not want the government to run a national church or religion like they did in England. They wanted freedom for US citizens to worship freely. The idea is not that people should keep their religious beliefs separate from running government or making policy. Everyone, whether you admit to it or not, makes decisions that are influenced by their beliefs. Your founding fathers created the foundation of your government and laws based on their belief in God. The justice system is based on the Christian-Judeo system of law. And you should be very thankful that they did this. Stop and think for a minute. Would you rather be living in England, or some communist or Islamic state? I can’t believe how ingrateful you guys are. If it wasn’t for your christian heritage, you would not have the freedoms you have today. Let me also add that some of your first and greatest learning institutions such as Havard, were founded by christians (John Harvard). Some of the biggest humanitarian organizations were founded by christians (Salvation Army). If you don’t like christians, or christianity, because you feel it takes away from your liberties, try moving to a socialist state, (including Europe), and let me know how you like it there?
Nate Dogg,
Let me be brief on at least one of these issues. Human Embryo = human being. Every species has it’s own characteristics. These are evident in the DNA of that species. If you look at a humam embryo, the DNA shows clearly that it has the characteristics of a human being. Thus, when it is formed, it is either a human being or it is not a human. It cannot go from being non-human to human. Regardless of whether the embryo is in the womb or outside, it is a human being. The right to choice = the right to kill. Last time I checked, no individual in a civilized society has the right to take another life. Are you saying the right to kill is more important than the right to life? Let me add that when these so-called Pro-Choice groups, are not about Choice. None of them that I am aware of encourage women, or give them pros and cons about abortion. They just tell the girls to get an abortion (I have a friend who went thru this). Pro-Choice = Pro-Death. Why don’t they just come clean about it. At least with Pro-Life, you know where they stand. Pro-Choice is just trying to disguise themselves with politically correct jargon. They don’t offer any choice, so they are hypocrities.
Neil
[quote]Superman wrote:
This election just proved more to me why the american people are the dumbest in the free world.
How many of you guys work that voted for bush. Congrats, you just made your life harder.
How many are making more then 300k a year? Didn’t think so, great for us “working americans”.
Use creatine, probably won’t in the next four years.
and gay marriage? All the “christians” on hear are full of shit. Does the bible preach thou shall not kill? How many scriptures in the bible are against killing, and how many are against homosexuality? Do you even know?? Did you even take into account voting for a man responsible for DEATHS, innocent or guilty? No, because like our president, you are full of shit.
Not to mention bush knew about 9/11, he knew about what WAS’nt in iraq, and yet he is still in iraq policing the world. During 9/11 the fbi was working on a case of a up-class whore house in st louis instead of the taliban. His moto should have been “We found the whores in 2004.”
[/quote]
Ohh, poor Superman. I guess it’s the end of the world because you and Professor X can’t have all the supplements you want. Tough. Reality check…there are no perfect laws/governments/countries in this world. Quit being so ignorant and selfish. Stop just caring about your muscles.
Why do you want to punish people who work hard and make more money than you? If there weren’t incentives for people to make more money, the U.S. would not have as many opportunities as it has. If you don’t believe me, move to Russia.
[quote]Superman wrote:
This election just proved more to me why the american people are the dumbest in the free world.
How many of you guys work that voted for bush. Congrats, you just made your life harder.
[/quote]
ummm…ok, what the hell is your piont here. Life harder how???
What does this have to do with anything???
Because republicans are the only ones against supplement use? Huh? Again, I don’t understand any of your points.
This is the most unintelligible garbage I’ve read on this thread. Trust me, you’re not doing you’re liberal brethen any justice by what you added here. A lot of emotion and no reason.
[quote]Superman wrote:
This election just proved more to me why the american people are the dumbest in the free world.
How many of you guys work that voted for bush. Congrats, you just made your life harder.
How many are making more then 300k a year? Didn’t think so, great for us “working americans”.
Use creatine, probably won’t in the next four years.
and gay marriage? All the “christians” on hear are full of shit. Does the bible preach thou shall not kill? How many scriptures in the bible are against killing, and how many are against homosexuality? Do you even know?? Did you even take into account voting for a man responsible for DEATHS, innocent or guilty? No, because like our president, you are full of shit.
Not to mention bush knew about 9/11, he knew about what WAS’nt in iraq, and yet he is still in iraq policing the world. During 9/11 the fbi was working on a case of a up-class whore house in st louis instead of the taliban. His moto should have been “We found the whores in 2004.”
[/quote]
That has got to ne the biggest pile of steaming horse shit I’ve read on here in a month. Those baseless charges didn’t work on Tuesday, and they won’t work today.
You want to vilify someone? Then pick on the snot-nosed spoiled brat punks who think that their opinions actually matter - and then don’t go vote. Vilify those millions of voters registered by the democrats and instead of voting, decided to curl up with a nice crack-pipe.
The fact is, the right got more people out to vote than the left did - to the tune of 4 million more - and we won.
[quote]neilbudge wrote:
Quit being so ignorant and selfish. Stop just caring about your muscles.
Why do you want to punish people who work hard and make more money than you? If there weren’t incentives for people to make more money, the U.S. would not have as many opportunities as it has. If you don’t believe me, move to Russia.
[/quote]
What exactly is your post referring to as far as anything that I have written? Stop being selfish? Because I like the freedom of using something that I KNOW won’t kill me to get stronger and bigger? That is now selfish? I am against people who make more money than me now? I hate to break it to you, but I am sure my income is above average (even though it is far from where I want it to be and where I plan for it to be in ten years). I am not against people who make more than me and I don’t think I have written anything like that. What you just spouted off here is no better than any of the “hate mail” so many Republicans are bitching about.
Oh boy.
First of all, the world is not going to end just because one or the other candidate was elected. When Clinton became president and had both houses of congress, people got scared. What happened? Congress went to the Republicans completely taking away his power.
The people spoke.
If Bush were to take actions that were not good, the people would speak in two years and cut his power. The simple fact that congress has increased into Republican hands means that he is not going to far. He was given the car and the keys.
What the liberals should really be afraid of is if Bush is successful. If the next four years are boom years, and the events in the Mid-East move in our direction, you could see a good 20 years of Republican power.
I have to say that I respect Kerry for not taking the lawyer route. He could have turned over the votes in every county for months. Instead he did concede the election to Bush.
And Bush was respectful not to make a speech about winning until Kerry conceded. Speaking out earlier would have been a slap in the face of Kerry.
But the decision has been made, and we need to live with it. If it went the other way, we would still have to live with it.
The most interesting thing I heard last night was that there is a coming civil war in the Democratic Party.