Who's Your Favorite Guitarist?

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
One thing to consider is that fast/technical does not preclude ‘feel’ and ‘emotion’. In Yngwie’s case, he grew up listening to classical/baroque music and formed emotions and links to feelings through those modes.[/quote]

Reliance on exotic modes to express an inner emotional state has its downside, though. If it’s taken to extremes, it produces music that’s abstract or just plain weird. It is still emotional to the player (obviously, because the emotions which inspired the music are theirs), but doesn’t evoke those same feelings in the listener, so the music ends up getting in the way of the message.[/quote]

C’mon- flying around an A-minor scale isn’t really all that exotic.

Do you think Steve Vai’s music is ‘unemotional’? Frank Zappa’s?[/quote]

Unemotional? No. Unlistenable? Sometimes. And, if you can’t listen to it, how can you find any feeling in it?

What I meant was that sometimes a musician will get too experimental for their own good and become incomprehensible (seems to happen to guitarists more than any other musicians). Zappa managed to stay just on the right side and build a successful career on it; Vai established his own style (both experienced creative close shaves at one point or another). But Malmsteen…well, he somehow lacks a defining quality that makes him stand out. He has neither the innovation of Vai or the borderline mental patient antics of Zappa.

What he does has been done better by others (Jason Becker).

Al Di Meola: a true master of creating mood through exotic modes:

Maestro Segovia has already been mentioned but deserves a vid:

One of my personal faves from Satch:

Jeff Kollman, Dave Martone, Guthrie Govan, Yngwie Malmsteen

Actually the fastest guitarist is Shawn Lane but I’m not sure that that equates best…

The best drummer is Virgil Donati

check out guthrie govan…

Shawn Lane

Marty Friedman

[quote]roybot wrote:
Yes…and it still falls under the “faster than the ear can follow” comment I made earlier. [/quote]

And I would disagree. I have no trouble following it at all.

[quote]roybot wrote:

Why is it beyond you? I explained, quite clearly, why it is important in my last post. The ease in which you can memorize a song is an indication of good, solid compositional skills. [/quote]

This is completely unfounded.
Does that statement apply for the following piece?

This is because of the complexity in terms of phrasing. Also, Metallica and AC\DC have very basic musical structure. This is like asking the average person to listen to Verdi’s Rigoletto and then comparing it to Britney Spears’ ‘Oops I did it again’.
One is easier on the mind and ears than the other. This is not proof of greatness in either case.

He was one of the few, if not the first to blend metal and classical music together.
Metallica and AC\DC borrow heavily from blues and other rock.
How is Malmsteen’s style not his own?

[quote]roybot wrote:
I wouldn’t classify Malmsteen as one of the greatest guitarists ever based on that criteria. He falls short in quite a few areas. I don’t hate Malmsteen, and I’m not trying to piss on anyone’s opinion but he is massively overrated. I’m not alone when I say that…[/quote]

You would be incorrect. He is not one of the best musicians, but he definitely is one of the best guitarists.

[quote]roybot wrote:
Malmsteen’s style is about as far removed from legit classical playing as you can get. It is an over-the-top approximation of what a classical violinist might sound like on an electric guitar. True classical players do not sound anything like him; he sounds even less like one on an acoustic.

I said classical-ish phrasing. I’m not saying he is a straight up classical musician.

That’s your opinion, and that is fine.
I find some of his music exciting.
Let’s agree to disagree.

Vai has some great music, but I find that I can’t listen to it for more than 15 minutes.

Tommy Emmanuel

Listen to this simple fact that a lot of guitarists know:

A guitar only has 12 notes total.

With that being said, some guitarists like the Youngs’ have like 20 albums, Jimmy Page even had a bunch with hundreds of millions of copies sold. Some of you will have me believe that Yngvie Malmsteen, or John Petrucci are comparable?? Capitalism at work tells you right away whos worth their salt. Think about that, twenty albums with only 12 notes (some will claim AC/DC only uses like 6!)

The point is that the masses speak loudly. YOU might like some of those “skill heads”, but they are not the greatest. If so, show me the album sales, and the money that follows. Guys like Petrucci, Malmsteen are only known to people who play guitar.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:Listen from 2 minutes in until the end for proof of this.
Most of the people who say emotion can not be found in fast playing are usually the people who aren’t very good at guitar.

I see people watch a guitarist and because he makes funny faces it’s supposed to mean he feels the music?
You have the guy play the song doing that or not doing that, doesn’t change how his FINGERS play the song.
You people have to realize that alot of them do that shit for the crowd.[/quote]

That’s not quite what I was saying.

Look at someone like Jimmy Page. He may not have the perfect technical facility of someone like Satriani or Malmsteen, and he often gets criticized for sloppiness. But Page has written some of the mightiest and most memorable riffs in all of music! I can’t think of a single powerful and memorable riff from those “masturbatory shredders” who dazzle you with technical virtuosity.
[/quote]

Theres a Dean Ween quote to that effect comparing Page to Satriani. Dean Ween is a good guitar player too.

[quote]Antares wrote:
Back to rep the repless…

Duane Allman

Dickey Betts

Greg Ginn

Richard Thompson

Andy Summers

Hugh Cornwell

Bob Mould

Marc Bolan ( x2 I guess )

Andrew Eldritch

Bernard Sumner[/quote]

Such a hard boner for richard thompson I have. Others…haven’t heard of.

Now check out some sabbath shredding :wink:

Richard Z Kruspe

how does one gauge their response?

how about by genre?

metal=Dime

d-metal=a toss up between Jack Owen circa The Bleeding/Vile, and John Gallagher from Dying Fetus

rock=another toss up between EVH and Ty Tabor from Kings X

Jazz/rock fusion=John McLaughlin or Stanley Jordan

Jazz=Wes Montgomery, Allen Holdsworth (stretching it, I know), Tal Farlow

Rockabilly=The Reverend Horton Heat

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

And I would disagree. I have no trouble following it at all. [/quote]

You are missing the point here. I’m not literally talking about how easy it is to follow his playing. I’m talking about how his need to show off dominates his song construction. That is a perfectly reasonable and accurate observation, and not hard to understand, especially for a player…unless you are deliberately trying sidestep my argument and I get the feeling you are.

[quote]
This is completely unfounded.
Does that statement apply for the following piece? [/quote]

No, it doesn’t apply because :

  1. She is an accomplished musician with a highly developed faculty for learning complex pieces that took years to cultivate (I addressed this in an earlier post when I said YM’s songs are not easily memorized by anyone other than those in possession of perfect and/or relative pitch - in other words, trained musicians).
  2. Neither she or Chopin have any connection to Malmsteen, or say in his music.
  3. Chopin didn’t write songs to show off his playing, unlike Malmsteen.
    4)The basic structure of the etude you posted would be easier to approximate than Malmsteen’s chord progressions. It has the potential to stay in the memory longer.

The best music should be accessible to everyone, not just musicians. It’s no coincidence that Malmsteen’s fan base is made up almost entirely from guitarists: they appreciate his technical ability, not his music. Be honest.

[quote]
This is because of the complexity in terms of phrasing. Also, Metallica and AC\DC have very basic musical structure. This is like asking the average person to listen to Verdi’s Rigoletto and then comparing it to Britney Spears’ ‘Oops I did it again’.
One is easier on the mind and ears than the other. This is not proof of greatness in either case.[/quote]

Blaze, I’m convinced you’re just skimming over my posts. I’ve been through all this already. See above. “Complexity of phrasing” is not an adequate explanation when he uses that same complexity for the sake of it. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

[quote]
He was one of the few, if not the first to blend metal and classical music together.
Metallica and AC\DC borrow heavily from blues and other rock.
How is Malmsteen’s style not his own? [/quote]

He didn’t just blend metal and classical though: he was a Paganini fanatic who was inspired to transpose his style to a guitar. Metallica and AC\DC drew influence from a wide range of players. Malmsteen in his early years was basically a Paganini clone (he was, and still is, creatively limited by what Paganini did). He has never fully gotten away from that - it makes him and breaks him at the same time. That’s why his style isn’t his own.

[quote]
You would be incorrect. He is not one of the best musicians, but he definitely is one of the best guitarists. [/quote] I wouldn’t be “incorrect” because they are obviously two sides of the same coin. Technically, I rate him very highly, but he wouldn’t come within spitting distance of my top ten - taking everything into account, I’d rate far less accomplished guitarists above him.

I’m a musician myself, but I don’t feel any urge to bow down before him just because he is technically dazzling. In fact, the opposite is true: the musical training I’ve had helps me to see how contrived his playing really is.

[quote]
I find some of his music exciting.
Let’s agree to disagree.[/quote]

I’m cool with that. I wouldn’t presume to tell anybody who and what they should be listening to anyway. I just personally say ‘meh’ to Malmsteen.

[quote]admbaum wrote:

Ty Tabor from Kings X

X2

Ty Tabor has one of the best tones in Rock. You can recognize it in about three notes.

I was lucky enough to see SRV and Jeff Beck on the same bill. Can’t get much better than that. Beck even had Terry Bozio on drums, what a show. It’s weird, after the show all we could talk about was the drummer, not the guitar gods lol.

What’s scary to me is seeing little kids on youtube nail some of these players. I know it’s just mimiking and can’t write their own stuff yet but damn, I don’t want to see a kid hit note for note The Star Spangled Banner by Hendrix lol. I play a little guitar and drums(badly) and seeing these vids is depressing…not really but fuck, so good, so young.

Djanco Reinhardt…not bad for a dude with only two working fingers on his fret hand :wink:

[/quote]

I hate Steve Vai. 90% of what he does sounds like shit to me. Same with Jeff Beck, who also has the worst guitar tone in the history of the instrument. I just don’t get them.

EDIT: Hate is too strong of a word here. But, every time I listen to a Steve Vai/Jeff Beck song, I start getting into it and then they start doing some weird shit that totally ruins it for me.

My favorites: SRV, Dime, Zakk Wylde, Randy Rhoads, Tony Iommi, Angus Young, Mark Morton, Kirk Hammett, James Hetfield, Billy Gibbons, Duane Allman, Clapton, Hughie Thomasson, Jimmy Page, Jeff Hanneman, Kerry King, Adam Jones, Joe Perry, more…

I could give a fuck less about the skill of these guys. They write and play music that I like and listen to again and again. That means infinitely more to me than technical skill.

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I could give a fuck less about the skill of these guys. They write and play music that I like and listen to again and again. That means infinitely more to me than technical skill.[/quote]

I agree. The music is about the music. My point is that technical ability doesn’t preclude feel or listenablity (to those that choose to listen to it).

Many of the guys you listed are highly technical players, some are not. Ace Frehley is probably responsible for more people picking up a guitar than anyone else.

re: Richard Thompson-- I met/roadied for him and his brother when I was younger. My home town has a music festival every year (mostly a folk festival) and every once in awhile pulls in a half-decent name. I know the guy who runs sound for the town and he’d hire us to set-up/tear-down and run sound. Ditto Edgar Winter, some others

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I could give a fuck less about the skill of these guys. They write and play music that I like and listen to again and again. That means infinitely more to me than technical skill.[/quote]

I agree. The music is about the music. My point is that technical ability doesn’t preclude feel or listenablity (to those that choose to listen to it).

Many of the guys you listed are highly technical players, some are not. Ace Frehley is probably responsible for more people picking up a guitar than anyone else.

[/quote]

Totally agree. Half of the guys I like best, are ‘punk/rock/metal’, and the other half are ‘gods/brilliant/masters.’

If a player sounds good TO ME, often enough, he/she/it is a fave. Period.

I don’t expect everyone to be fucking Mozart…Actually that would be weird…