I like these who would win between a bear versus a penguin or a donkey against a turtle threads going on here lately so would like to put one out there.
Who would win a war between the USA and China?
I think personally the US would think a little bit more about involving itself in a military action against a nation who dropped chemical weapons on its own citizens if the nation in question was China and not Syria
India and/or Russia.
No nukes involved and the US would obliterate China. With nukes it would be a tie.
The Chinese would win without firing a shot.
All they would need to do is halt all ships supplying cheap merchandise to American ports. The people of Wal-Mart would riot, an the United States would tear itself apart in a matter of a few months.
Seriously, though, the Chinese are wise enough to know better than to take on the United States militarily. So they will continue down the path that has been so profitable for so long: to defeat us financially. Granted, the Chinese econy has taken a hit or two, but compared to our own it is still extremely robust. The Chinese have an immense gold reserve, vying with Russia as the largest in the world, and they hold over a trillion dollars in American treasury bills.
If we default on these bills, there is really nothing to prevent the Chinese from taking possession of the BLM lands the Federal Government has put up as collateral.
They have us by the balls, gentlemen. Best learn Mandarin. Oh, and keep on buying all those low-priced “Made in China” products. I’m sure your new masters will appreciate it.
[quote]kamui wrote:
India and/or Russia. [/quote]
Hey…
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
The Chinese would win without firing a shot.
All they would need to do is halt all ships supplying cheap merchandise to American ports. The people of Wal-Mart would riot, an the United States would tear itself apart in a matter of a few months.
Seriously, though, the Chinese are wise enough to know better than to take on the United States militarily. So they will continue down the path that has been so profitable for so long: to defeat us financially. Granted, the Chinese econy has taken a hit or two, but compared to our own it is still extremely robust. The Chinese have an immense gold reserve, vying with Russia as the largest in the world, and they hold over a trillion dollars in American treasury bills.
If we default on these bills, there is really nothing to prevent the Chinese from taking possession of the BLM lands the Federal Government has put up as collateral.
They have us by the balls, gentlemen. Best learn Mandarin. Oh, and keep on buying all those low-priced “Made in China” products. I’m sure your new masters will appreciate it. [/quote]
While this is true, I think you are forgetting that we buy most of their shit. Without the US their economy takes an enormous blow and they know this. It is in their best interest to keep us around consuming their crap.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
The Chinese would win without firing a shot.
All they would need to do is halt all ships supplying cheap merchandise to American ports. The people of Wal-Mart would riot, an the United States would tear itself apart in a matter of a few months.
Seriously, though, the Chinese are wise enough to know better than to take on the United States militarily. So they will continue down the path that has been so profitable for so long: to defeat us financially. Granted, the Chinese econy has taken a hit or two, but compared to our own it is still extremely robust. The Chinese have an immense gold reserve, vying with Russia as the largest in the world, and they hold over a trillion dollars in American treasury bills.
If we default on these bills, there is really nothing to prevent the Chinese from taking possession of the BLM lands the Federal Government has put up as collateral.
They have us by the balls, gentlemen. Best learn Mandarin. Oh, and keep on buying all those low-priced “Made in China” products. I’m sure your new masters will appreciate it. [/quote]
While this is true, I think you are forgetting that we buy most of their shit. Without the US their economy takes an enormous blow and they know this. It is in their best interest to keep us around consuming their crap.
[/quote]
I’m not forgetting it at all. As long as we have the buying power, which is being eroded daily by the Federal Reserve working feverishly to print more money than ever has been printed in the history of currency, to buy their products, they will continue to sell them to us, laughing up the sleeves of their vermillion Mandarin robes all the way to the gold vaults as they lend us more money to do so.
At some point, however, they will decide that they no longer wish to extend us credit, and will find another market for their cheap crap, just as all mercantile empires do when one market dries up.
The point is, the United States is living on borrowed money, and borrowed time. And wondering who would win in a military confrontation is about as moot a point as wondering how well Uncle Bubba will prevail against the bank when they foreclose on his double-wide. He may have a lot of guns, but they won’t do him a lot of good.
The statists.
To the point about all of the “borrowed money” from China… I say if it ever got bad, I would just tell them “Fuck you, we ain’t paying. If you don’t like it. Come and get it.”
It’s not like they would do anything. They would be left holding a bunch of worthless U.S. paper. Our “standing” would go down in the world… Big Fucking Deal.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
To the point about all of the “borrowed money” from China… I say if it ever got bad, I would just tell them “Fuck you, we ain’t paying. If you don’t like it. Come and get it.”
It’s not like they would do anything. They would be left holding a bunch of worthless U.S. paper. Our “standing” would go down in the world… Big Fucking Deal. [/quote]
You know, if I ran a deficit of over a trillion each year…
maybe…
I would not raise a stink?
Mebbe?
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
To the point about all of the “borrowed money” from China… I say if it ever got bad, I would just tell them “Fuck you, we ain’t paying. If you don’t like it. Come and get it.”
It’s not like they would do anything. They would be left holding a bunch of worthless U.S. paper. Our “standing” would go down in the world… Big Fucking Deal. [/quote]
Brett, crack open a history book and find out what happens to nations that default on their debts. Then ask yourself whether any of these countries would be ones in which you would like to live.
A bankrupt nation is one which, by virtue of its being bankrupt, nobody will trade with, nor extend credit to, because it has demonstrated that it cannot repay its debts. If we defaulted on our debt to China, it would be tantamount to declaring ALL treasury bills worthless, which would result in ALL nations who hold US paper to call their debts. There would be a run on the treasury the likes of which has never been seen. The dollar would be worthless, and the US would be alone against the world.
How long do you think the United States of America, let alone you in your little bunker in Tennessee, could hold out against all the creditor nations of the world, all of them demanding payment for moneys owed? A week? A month? A few years?
Hope you have plenty of food, water, ammunition, silver billion and toilet paper stored in that little bunker. Because if history is a guide, it could get pretty ugly.
Agree with Varq. There are more ways to fight a war than with troops on the ground.
Also, China outnumbers us significantly. They can be more easily militarized than the typical, fat American. Our quality is beyond theirs on equipment, but they can build 10 to every 1 that we can.
China is self-sufficient and rich, the US is a primary import country and in debt (to China).
We would lose. There is no benefit however to China going to war. It would be like a bank you own the loan to killing you… they just lost the money you owed them.
I think that the bulk of the world has moved past the “war” mentality and not its about posturing, economics, and negotiations. There really is no benefit to war. Though, and this is cynical, the population is getting out of hand.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Also, China outnumbers us significantly. They can be more easily militarized than the typical, fat American. Our quality is beyond theirs on equipment, but they can build 10 to every 1 that we can. [/quote]
And considering how much technology we have sold them since the Clinton administration, not to mention all the cheap counterfeit Chinese parts that have been showing up in our fighter jets and helicopters, the “quality” advantage as well is beginning to look a little shaky.
In my mind’s eye I see Honorius, Emperor of the Western Roman Empire, having just made a deal with Alaric, king of the Visigoths, for yet another loan of gold and silver bullion, and another annual contract for a billion drachmae worth of trade goods from Germany.
The Emperor knows that Rome will never be able to pay off the loans (especially since the value of the Roman denarius has been plummeting like a stone for decades), but he thinks, “I’ll just tell Alaric to fuck off, and if he doesn’t like it, he can come and take what he can get. There’s no way his army can stand against mine,” Honorius thinks. "We’re the greatest military power in the world.
“So what if we live on imported products. What’re those Gothic bastards gonna do? Blockade the Tiber?”
I was told by someone that for every sub we make, China can make 10. That is a daunting thought. We field 10 subs they field 100. Sure we’ll get a few to each of ours, but unless our subs can fire torpedoes without sound or being traceable, as soon as that first shot happen, they’ll have us targetted.
Also, we not only sold some of our plans designs, but China is exceptionally good at stealing/reverse-engineering too. Sure, the first few dozen or hundred models failed, but eventually they catch on. And China has the resources to make those kinds of mistakes.
I noticed you mentioned silver bullion in another thread. Are you a stacker Varq?
Yeah, I have been buying precious metals since the days when gold was under $300, and silver was six dollars an ounce.
Gave most of the gold to my ex-wife as part of the divorce settlement, more’s the pity, and if she was smart she held onto it (it was about 500 dollars an ounce at the time), but knowing her I kind of doubt it.
I had to sell my monstrous 30 kilogram loaf (“bar” just doesn’t do it justice) of silver before I left Japan (imagine lugging a sixty-six pound hunk of metal around in a gym bag through the Tokyo subways), but I still have a bit of a stack left, which I will add to once I sell my house.
As the Russians say, and they ought to know, “more evil has been caused by a lack of gold than by a surplus of it.”
You may be interested in knowing, Quasi-Tech, that Tanaka Kikinzoku in Ginza can set you up with a Gold and Silver account in which you can buy bullion every week or month through automatic debit from your bank account, and you can either take delivery of the bullion at any time, have it delivered to you by mail anywhere in Japan for a nominal fee, or just keep it in the Tanaka vault. The yen is still a pretty solid currency, but who knows which way the wind will blow in the coming years?
I remember my wife laughing in my face at the beginning of 2001 when I predicted war between China and Japan within twenty years. I don’t think she’s laughing now.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
To the point about all of the “borrowed money” from China… I say if it ever got bad, I would just tell them “Fuck you, we ain’t paying. If you don’t like it. Come and get it.”
It’s not like they would do anything. They would be left holding a bunch of worthless U.S. paper. Our “standing” would go down in the world… Big Fucking Deal. [/quote]
Brett, crack open a history book and find out what happens to nations that default on their debts. Then ask yourself whether any of these countries would be ones in which you would like to live.
A bankrupt nation is one which, by virtue of its being bankrupt, nobody will trade with, nor extend credit to, because it has demonstrated that it cannot repay its debts. If we defaulted on our debt to China, it would be tantamount to declaring ALL treasury bills worthless, which would result in ALL nations who hold US paper to call their debts. There would be a run on the treasury the likes of which has never been seen. The dollar would be worthless, and the US would be alone against the world.
How long do you think the United States of America, let alone you in your little bunker in Tennessee, could hold out against all the creditor nations of the world, all of them demanding payment for moneys owed? A week? A month? A few years?
Hope you have plenty of food, water, ammunition, silver billion and toilet paper stored in that little bunker. Because if history is a guide, it could get pretty ugly. [/quote]
Didn’t Russia declare bankruptcy in 1998? They seem to be doing fine. Lots of countries seem fine after even worse stuff, such as Germany in 1945 or Japan.
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Agree with Varq. There are more ways to fight a war than with troops on the ground.
Also, China outnumbers us significantly. They can be more easily militarized than the typical, fat American. Our quality is beyond theirs on equipment, but they can build 10 to every 1 that we can.
China is self-sufficient and rich, the US is a primary import country and in debt (to China).
We would lose. There is no benefit however to China going to war. It would be like a bank you own the loan to killing you… they just lost the money you owed them.
I think that the bulk of the world has moved past the “war” mentality and not its about posturing, economics, and negotiations. There really is no benefit to war. Though, and this is cynical, the population is getting out of hand.[/quote]
LOL! If I can push a button and shut off all the water and electricity in Beijing, Shanghai, and Changsha, the war is over, guys. China defeating the United States…LOL!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Agree with Varq. There are more ways to fight a war than with troops on the ground.
Also, China outnumbers us significantly. They can be more easily militarized than the typical, fat American. Our quality is beyond theirs on equipment, but they can build 10 to every 1 that we can.
China is self-sufficient and rich, the US is a primary import country and in debt (to China).
We would lose. There is no benefit however to China going to war. It would be like a bank you own the loan to killing you… they just lost the money you owed them.
I think that the bulk of the world has moved past the “war” mentality and not its about posturing, economics, and negotiations. There really is no benefit to war. Though, and this is cynical, the population is getting out of hand.[/quote]
LOL! If I can push a button and shut off all the water and electricity in Beijing, Shanghai, and Changsha, the war is over, guys. China defeating the United States…LOL!
[/quote]
They can push a very similar button and the US experiences a nuclear winter.
lol.
Headhunter, considering you’re a troll and the manner in which you responded, its not much use to respond to your post. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
Varq, I had suspicions once you mentioned stacking elsewhere for being prepared. Do you still watch the market fluctuations? I’ve been keeping my eye on silver. I should have bought when it dipped to the $18 or so low, but I have other finances to attend to yet. My only concern with doing a bullion account here, is shipping it to the US when I go back home at the end of 2014. I imagine customs would love that one.
Sorry to hear your ex took your gold. And seeing as its reached quite a turn around on investment, she probably has a rather nice amount of cash (depending on when we sold). I’m guessing the Yen will be ok so long as the USD is okay. I don’t know enough about the currencies themselves, but I imagine the countries in bed with each other will go down together if there is any sinking to occur. For now, from at least my job perspective, Japan is doing well.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
To the point about all of the “borrowed money” from China… I say if it ever got bad, I would just tell them “Fuck you, we ain’t paying. If you don’t like it. Come and get it.”
It’s not like they would do anything. They would be left holding a bunch of worthless U.S. paper. Our “standing” would go down in the world… Big Fucking Deal. [/quote]
Brett, crack open a history book and find out what happens to nations that default on their debts. Then ask yourself whether any of these countries would be ones in which you would like to live.
A bankrupt nation is one which, by virtue of its being bankrupt, nobody will trade with, nor extend credit to, because it has demonstrated that it cannot repay its debts. If we defaulted on our debt to China, it would be tantamount to declaring ALL treasury bills worthless, which would result in ALL nations who hold US paper to call their debts. There would be a run on the treasury the likes of which has never been seen. The dollar would be worthless, and the US would be alone against the world.
How long do you think the United States of America, let alone you in your little bunker in Tennessee, could hold out against all the creditor nations of the world, all of them demanding payment for moneys owed? A week? A month? A few years?
Hope you have plenty of food, water, ammunition, silver billion and toilet paper stored in that little bunker. Because if history is a guide, it could get pretty ugly. [/quote]
Didn’t Russia declare bankruptcy in 1998? They seem to be doing fine. Lots of countries seem fine after even worse stuff, such as Germany in 1945 or Japan. [/quote]
Russia in 1998 had an economy that was not tied into the global banking system as inextricably as our own, and they got a massive injection of capital from the IMF and Japan. What sort of position do you imagine the IMF to be in if the US dollar collapses? Plus they could survive on barter until the economy got working again. Could this happen in the United States, outside of a James Wesley Comma Rawles novel?
Germany and Japan in 1945 had a rich uncle named “Sam” to lend them a few bucks until they got back on their feet. Who’s going to bail us out?
And finally, let’s not forget the last time the German economy failed before 1945. The Weimar Republic’s currency crashed within a few years, and pandemonium ensued. We all know what the result of that was.
And yes, Germany got back on its feet in the thirties thanks not only to guns-before-butter policy enacted by the newly-elected Nazi party, but also by a huge infusion of capital from JP Morgan. Again, if the US economy fails and the dollar becomes worthless, who is going to bail us out?