front squats FTW
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
you know who smith squats?
Bryce Brandon. thats right motherfucker, check the plates.
[/quote]
who the fuck is bryce brandon!!
have u watched the video? he does sissy-ass quarter squats with a foam pad around the bar to cushion the weight of the bar off his back.
[quote]lamach wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
you know who smith squats?
Bryce Brandon. thats right motherfucker, check the plates.
who the fuck is bryce brandon!!
have u watched the video? he does sissy-ass quarter squats with a foam pad around the bar to cushion the weight of the bar off his back.
[/quote]
Exactly. It was a joke, but well worth my time due to the âcheck the platesâ quote. I am going to use that all the time.
I read and follow a lot of what Charles Poliquin writes. Hereâs what he has to say:
Q: I use the Smith machine extensively in my training, but Iâve been hearing that itâs not the greatest piece of equipment ever invented. Whatâs your take?
A: To be frank, I donât think much of the Smith machine. In fact, when I design a weight room for a client, I never ever buy a Smith machine. In fact, if a dork asks me a question about chest training during one of my workouts, I quickly prescribe him ten sets of 20 on the Smith machine as my way of getting revenge. One of the reasons that the Smith machine has so much publicity in the magazines is because it makes a great visual picture but, as far as functional transfer, it scores a big zero. It was probably invented by a physical therapist who wanted more business for himself.
What you might perceive as positives with the device are in fact strong negatives. The perceived positives are only short-lived because, in a Smith machine, the weight is stabilized for you. However, the shoulder really operates in three planes. But if you do exercises in a Smith machine, none of the shoulder stabilizers need to be recruited maximally. For example, the rotator cuff muscles donât have to fire as much because the barâs pathway is fixed. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training. When that happens, the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life. Since the Smith machine has allowed him to develop strength only in one dimension, it predisposes him or her to injury in the undeveloped planes of movement.
Exercise prescription specialist Paul Chek of San Diego has identified what he calls pattern overload syndrome. In his seminar and videos, he stresses that the Smith machine bench press is one of the most common sources of shoulder injuries:
âPeople get a pattern overload from using the Smith machine. The more fixed the object, the more likely you are to develop a pattern overload. This is due to the fact that training in a fixed pathway repetitively loads the same muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the same pattern, encouraging micro-trauma that eventually leads to injury. If Johnny Lunchpail always uses a Smith machine for his bench presses, he ends up working the same fibers of the prime movers in the bench press all of the time: triceps brachii, pectoralis major, long-head of the biceps, anterior deltoids, and serratus anterior. But he canât change the pathway Ă¢?? the bar will always be in the same position.â
Because of the mechanics of the human shoulder joint, the body will alter the natural bar pathway during a free-weight bench press to accommodate efficient movement at the shoulder. A fixed bar pathway doesnât allow alteration of this pathway for efficient movement of the joint, thereby predisposing the shoulder to harmful overload via lack of accommodation.
All in all, the Smith machine is a training piece for dorks. If youâre interested in training longevity, youâre far better off sticking to the standard barbell and dumbbell exercises or try the newer chest machines from Magnum and Flex.
In another article he explains why smith machine SQUATS especially are bad:
because the bar is fixed, a person doing Smith machine squats is able to lean against the bar, which is a natural response. This minimizes hip extension, thus allowing the hamstrings to take a siesta during the movement. Trouble is, the hamstrings help to stabilize the knee during squats, and the result of taking them out of the picture is to induce a shearing force on the joint. This might ultimately lead to a blown anterior cruciate ligament. Using the Smith machine for all your squatting definitely leads to you being a big fat dork.
Summary: As with any exercise, squats are perfectly safe if you use the correct technique, even safer than the âsafeâ machines misguided trainers sometimes prescribe to replace them!
1 Like
well my simple question fueled quite the debate haha this is becoming interesting
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I read and follow a lot of what Charles Poliquin writes. Hereâs what he has to say:
Q: I use the Smith machine extensively in my training, but Iâve been hearing that itâs not the greatest piece of equipment ever invented. Whatâs your take?
A: To be frank, I donât think much of the Smith machine. In fact, when I design a weight room for a client, I never ever buy a Smith machine. In fact, if a dork asks me a question about chest training during one of my workouts, I quickly prescribe him ten sets of 20 on the Smith machine as my way of getting revenge. One of the reasons that the Smith machine has so much publicity in the magazines is because it makes a great visual picture but, as far as functional transfer, it scores a big zero. It was probably invented by a physical therapist who wanted more business for himself.
What you might perceive as positives with the device are in fact strong negatives. The perceived positives are only short-lived because, in a Smith machine, the weight is stabilized for you. However, the shoulder really operates in three planes. But if you do exercises in a Smith machine, none of the shoulder stabilizers need to be recruited maximally. For example, the rotator cuff muscles donât have to fire as much because the barâs pathway is fixed. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training. When that happens, the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life. Since the Smith machine has allowed him to develop strength only in one dimension, it predisposes him or her to injury in the undeveloped planes of movement.
Exercise prescription specialist Paul Chek of San Diego has identified what he calls pattern overload syndrome. In his seminar and videos, he stresses that the Smith machine bench press is one of the most common sources of shoulder injuries:
âPeople get a pattern overload from using the Smith machine. The more fixed the object, the more likely you are to develop a pattern overload. This is due to the fact that training in a fixed pathway repetitively loads the same muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the same pattern, encouraging micro-trauma that eventually leads to injury. If Johnny Lunchpail always uses a Smith machine for his bench presses, he ends up working the same fibers of the prime movers in the bench press all of the time: triceps brachii, pectoralis major, long-head of the biceps, anterior deltoids, and serratus anterior. But he canât change the pathway Ă?Ă¢?? the bar will always be in the same position.â
Because of the mechanics of the human shoulder joint, the body will alter the natural bar pathway during a free-weight bench press to accommodate efficient movement at the shoulder. A fixed bar pathway doesnât allow alteration of this pathway for efficient movement of the joint, thereby predisposing the shoulder to harmful overload via lack of accommodation.
All in all, the Smith machine is a training piece for dorks. If youâre interested in training longevity, youâre far better off sticking to the standard barbell and dumbbell exercises or try the newer chest machines from Magnum and Flex.
In another article he explains why smith machine SQUATS especially are bad:
because the bar is fixed, a person doing Smith machine squats is able to lean against the bar, which is a natural response. This minimizes hip extension, thus allowing the hamstrings to take a siesta during the movement. Trouble is, the hamstrings help to stabilize the knee during squats, and the result of taking them out of the picture is to induce a shearing force on the joint. This might ultimately lead to a blown anterior cruciate ligament. Using the Smith machine for all your squatting definitely leads to you being a big fat dork.
Summary: As with any exercise, squats are perfectly safe if you use the correct technique, even safer than the âsafeâ machines misguided trainers sometimes prescribe to replace them!
[/quote]
Well I have yet to hear of people at intensemuscle.com running into these problems. Cause a lot utilize both free weights and smith machines a lot. I guess you only have to worry if you live and train in a smith machine. Which I highly doubt most do. Most use an exercise rotation.
Itâs interesting, out of all the pro bodybuilders and genetic freaks out there, you hardly EVER see them doing smith machine squats. Maybe some have horrible form on rows, benches, what have you, but at least you rarely ever see them doing squats on a stupid ass smith machine.
Since I train DC and have no training partner, the Smith Machine is a must.
[quote]esk221 wrote:
Since I train DC and have no training partner, the Smith Machine is a must.[/quote]
x2
The only people I ever seen on the smith are dorks trying to âget up more weightâ and chicks.
Stop being a pussy, learn proper form. If your back hurts when you squat then your form sucks. Drop the weight and your ego.
I get tired of this âIâm on DC so I have to use the Smithâ crap. Thatâs a copout. You can go to failure, complete failure on the bench without a spotterâŚyou just may have to roll that shit off your chest. OR, hopefully you bench has some adjustable supports so that if you fail you can still scoot your way under the bar. Either way, man up.
Now if you have one of these then you are cool: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LfOOlBZjuUE/RtDnIZ4xgLI/AAAAAAAAADg/ZHli9_wORxY/s1600/maxrack_picture1.jpg
Or if youâre doing some negatives w/o a partner then thatâs ok.
Otherwise itâs a coatrack and a place for hot chicks with tight asses to squat.
Why do so few have a problem following squats with hack machine squats or leg presses, but then lecture against the smith machine? For bodybuilding purposes it may agree with certain bodytypes better. Dorian Yates used the smith religiously for squats.
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
I get tired of this âIâm on DC so I have to use the Smithâ crap. Thatâs a copout. You can go to failure, complete failure on the bench without a spotterâŚyou just may have to roll that shit off your chest. OR, hopefully you bench has some adjustable supports so that if you fail you can still scoot your way under the bar. Either way, man up.[/quote]
Roll it off their chest? After going to failure 3 times? Maybe you should check some logs and see what kind of weights people are moving.
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Stop being a pussy, learn proper form. If your back hurts when you squat then your form sucks. Drop the weight and your ego.
I get tired of this âIâm on DC so I have to use the Smithâ crap. Thatâs a copout. You can go to failure, complete failure on the bench without a spotterâŚyou just may have to roll that shit off your chest. OR, hopefully you bench has some adjustable supports so that if you fail you can still scoot your way under the bar. Either way, man up.
[/quote]
You, my friend, are a fucking idiot.
that bryce guy was a joke. if he had any merit to his name maybe you could use itâŚ
[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
Zen warrior wrote:
Whao, please tell me Iâve fallen down a rabbit hole or something. Is this the âevil twinâ version of T-Muscle?
Smith machine is an expensive coat rack, period.
Ok, you can use it for a couple of things like bench throws, isometrics, but doing any kind of movements with a range of motion on it is sure to fuck up your movement pattern big time, and may lead to overuse injuries in the joints and soft tissues. Look up Paul Chek Pattern Overload articles and Eric Cresseyâs 10 Uses for a Smith Machine (not sure about the correct title) here on T-Muscle.
A semi-good solution for the exercises mentionned would be using a dumbbell variation instead of a barbell one.
Whatâs wrong with doing both free weight and smith squats?
I guess some of you should go put Shelby Sternes in check. You guys have read some articles thus making you exercise and injury prevention gurus:D.
Iâll continue to do both free weight and smith squats. Cause they both work.
[/quote]
Feel free to continue using it, but if youâre going to make a point, at least try to make sensible arguments⌠Last time I checked, Shelby Starnes, although a real strong mofo, was a nutrition expert, not an exercises expert. Seconds, yeah, Iâve read a couple articles and so should you have. Iâve been with T-Nation for 8 of their 10 years existence, and read the entire archives. Throughtout than time frame, no coaches, EVER, has used ANY exercices done on a smith machine. From pure bber types to functional guys. No one.
And please, donât strawman people with attacking their academics. You have no idea of mine, just as I have no idea of yours. But at least I like to bring something to the table when I get into a debate.
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
The only people I ever seen on the smith are dorks trying to âget up more weightâ and chicks.
Stop being a pussy, learn proper form. If your back hurts when you squat then your form sucks. Drop the weight and your ego.
I get tired of this âIâm on DC so I have to use the Smithâ crap. Thatâs a copout. You can go to failure, complete failure on the bench without a spotterâŚyou just may have to roll that shit off your chest. OR, hopefully you bench has some adjustable supports so that if you fail you can still scoot your way under the bar. Either way, man up.
Now if you have one of these then you are cool: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LfOOlBZjuUE/RtDnIZ4xgLI/AAAAAAAAADg/ZHli9_wORxY/s1600/maxrack_picture1.jpg
Or if youâre doing some negatives w/o a partner then thatâs ok.
Otherwise itâs a coatrack and a place for hot chicks with tight asses to squat.[/quote]
Seriously? Roll the weight off your chest? Maybe for your sets you use 95 lbs and thatâs an option. When you are using 400 for your bench sets and go to failure 3 times, itâs not.
Smith squats really emphasize the quads, as a bodybuilder thatâs all Iâm after. Since you seem to think those of us who use smith machines are pussies, perhaps you will throw some pics up so we can see what a real man looks like.
a 140 lb real man that isâŚ
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
The only people I ever seen on the smith are dorks trying to âget up more weightâ and chicks.
Stop being a pussy, learn proper form. If your back hurts when you squat then your form sucks. Drop the weight and your ego. [/quote]
What if you have great form and still use the smith machineâŚ
⌠previous injuries can cause back pain while squatting⌠even if your form doesnât âsuckââŚ
[quote]
I get tired of this âIâm on DC so I have to use the Smithâ crap. Thatâs a copout. You can go to failure, complete failure on the bench without a spotterâŚyou just may have to roll that shit off your chest. OR, hopefully you bench has some adjustable supports so that if you fail you can still scoot your way under the bar. Either way, man up.
.[/quote]
Try going to complete failure alone with CGBP⌠without a smith machine⌠let me know how that works for youâŚ
[quote]
Otherwise itâs a coatrack and a place for hot chicks with tight asses to squat.[/quote]
But I have a tight ass too 
No, but really. Some movements just donât work for some people. If using a smith machine allows one to do the movement with intensity that cannot be done without it⌠whatâs the problem again?
Maybe some guys do use the smith machine as an ego thing. But if you have enough time to think about how much it bothers you⌠maybe you should try a little harder squatting with your manly free bar.
If the smith machine is for pussies⌠then Iâll gladly stick to being a pussy. Cause being a pussy is working.
What a fun thread this has turned out to be, didnât think it would have legs (haha, you like my pun there, you get it, you get it, legs, smith squat threadâŚho ho ho ho ho).
Personally, I chopped and changed using free weight and smith squats for the first 6 months of my training, but as soon as I went over 140kg I found it insanely uncomfortable. Just far too restrictive for me.
Still, I think there have been some good points here.
If you are comfortable doing it, and are loading it up so you are going at a good relative intensity, who gives a fuck what you use. If the muscle is working as hard as it needs to be, just do it.
But I hear the voices in my head ââŚthereâs more to it than thatâ. And they are referring to all the other muscle groups, injury risk etc etc etc.
Well, true, you donât get the 3D kinematic challenge of doing free weight movement in the Smith, but so what? In the free weight variations the âstabilizing musclesâ will be working harder, but probably not so much that they are getting a hypertrophy stimulus anyway. Do other exercises for the other muscle groups.
Studies have shown that for the prime movers in a machine vs free weight bench press (chest, triceps) there is no difference in activity using a machine vs free. Only the other muscles are different. If you want to train those muscles, you can just go train them with other exercises.
Injury risk in a Smith? Iâve been involved in injury rehab for a number of years and canât pinpoint the Smith press as being a cause of injury. Doesnât really make any sense anyway.
So my grand point isâŚso what? Just go do other exercises for the other muscle groupsâŚ
[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
The only people I ever seen on the smith are dorks trying to âget up more weightâ and chicks.
Stop being a pussy, learn proper form. If your back hurts when you squat then your form sucks. Drop the weight and your ego.
I get tired of this âIâm on DC so I have to use the Smithâ crap. Thatâs a copout. You can go to failure, complete failure on the bench without a spotterâŚyou just may have to roll that shit off your chest. OR, hopefully you bench has some adjustable supports so that if you fail you can still scoot your way under the bar. Either way, man up. [/quote] Iâm not seeing any sarcasm here⌠Which is rather disturbing. [quote]
Now if you have one of these then you are cool: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LfOOlBZjuUE/RtDnIZ4xgLI/AAAAAAAAADg/ZHli9_wORxY/s1600/maxrack_picture1.jpg
Or if youâre doing some negatives w/o a partner then thatâs ok.
Otherwise itâs a coatrack and a place for hot chicks with tight asses to squat.[/quote]
[quote]corey_31 wrote:
i know how everyone here loves the smith machine and think its prolly the best piece of equipment in the gym, but i was curious as to whether or not it can be used effectively for a limited amount of excercises.
i currently perform two excercises on the smith machine, they are also 2 excercises i have never done before prior to this program and these two excercises are front squats and bulgarian split squats. is it better to use the smith for these 2 excercises simply because you can remain extremely stable and use much more weight than you could using a barbell ?
(im 21 years old 197 pounds and doing a 5x5 related program looking to build strength first and foremost but also buld muscle, building muscle is my long term goal im not training to be a powerlifter)
[/quote]
As with most of these questions, it is excellent as an option. Use it, dont use it - it doesnât matter as long as you keep heavy, intense and varied.
BTW, try romanian deads on the smith - it is a slightly different move, but i find it more intense in the hams than the back than FW versions.
You really have to swing your arse out - but its worth a try.
