[quote]orion wrote:
The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
[/quote]
Please offer some proof of this asinine assertion. Otherwise, it is simply more meaningless rhetoric from the left.
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
For all of the liberals who are confused as to who pays the taxes in this country.
2004 tax statistics:
Top 1% ($328-k)-----------Paid 36.89%
Top 5% ($137-k------------Paid 57.13%
Top 10%($99-k)------------Paid 68.19%
Top 25%($60-k)------------Paid 84.86%
Top 50%(30-k)-------------Paid 96.70%
Bottom 50% (under 30-k)—Paid 3.30%
Now, this is not to say that people who make less are lazy, bad, insignificant or any other negative connotation that you might want to attribute to them. Or that you might want to insinuate that I am attributing to them. My point is simple, they just make less money. And because of that, they pay a great deal less in taxes.
On the other hand it appears that the rich are indeed pulling the wagon. When you make 137-k or better (top 5%) you are paying almost 60% of all taxes collected in the USA.
Instead of attacking “rich people” we should be thanking them for carrying the bulk of the financial load in America. On top of that they are also producing more relative to the GNP. They are in short “performing” and without them this country that we all love would be headed down hill at a faster rate than a bleeding heart liberal can shout “I HATE THE RICH!”
It’s odd in a way, the best performers of any business or sports team are lauded for their many contributions. But in the world of political know nothings they are attacked.
[/quote]
My wife and I are in the top 10 % (wife’s a tenured university professor). We are not rich by any means and have not taken vacation in 3 years because of taxes. What galls me the most is when someone demagogues people who make a buck, as if they’re not paying enough. As the stats show, this is at best laughable and at most evil. Do these peoplope realize at all what someone had to go through to GET to the position of making that money? My wife earned a Phd and beat 110 people for her job. Who can do that? Some bloated fat cat on Capitol Hill? He’s too busy hitting on male interns. Yet people vote for a jackoff like that, who figures out more ways to tax people.
Taxes are immoral and destructive of incentive. I think we could do better than financing our government through extortion.
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
orion wrote:
The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
Please offer some proof of this asinine assertion. Otherwise, it is simply more meaningless rhetoric from the left.[/quote]
No, your other left!
Funny, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a rich person complain about paying taxes. It’s always the poor person complaining about how much the rich person pays in taxes.
If the top 10% pay most of the taxes to run the country, shouldn’t they get the most say in how the country is run? A guy who pays $1M in taxes should have more say than a guy who pays $1000 in taxes.
That would only be fair, right?
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
orion wrote:
The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
Please offer some proof of this asinine assertion. Otherwise, it is simply more meaningless rhetoric from the left.
[/quote]
First of all when it comes to legal tax evasion you are on my political left…
Then, I would look into the taxation of privat trusts if where you…
The numbers for Austria are 12,5% taxation if the capital gains remain in the trust and another 25% for the beneficiaries if they receive money from the trust.
As you can see it is very easy to stay under 20% a year by leaving the money in he trust and only get money out of it whn you need it.
You could also set up a trust in a country where private trust taxation is close to zero, Liechtenstein comes to mind, I think Monaco, Luxembourg might also be opions.
As a second example my uninformed right wing friend company earnings are usually taxed very little IF they are plowed back into the firms business (for very good economic reasons I might add)which kind of has the same effect as a trust fund.
Corporations usually have a variety of ways to downplay their actual profit, and the US accounting system gives them even more options to paint the picture thy want.
Enron anyone?
Now, you might ask young Padawan, what if they sell their shares, would thy not have to pay income taxes on them then?
Not, and so the circle closes, if they put it into a privat trust, which pays little if anything on capital gains.
How is that for liberal propaganda.
PS: You think it does not work like that in the US?
Mwuahahahaahaha!!!
Ahem, sorry…
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
For all of the liberals who are confused as to who pays the taxes in this country.
2004 tax statistics:
Top 1% ($328-k)-----------Paid 36.89%
Top 5% ($137-k------------Paid 57.13%
Top 10%($99-k)------------Paid 68.19%
Top 25%($60-k)------------Paid 84.86%
Top 50%(30-k)-------------Paid 96.70%
Bottom 50% (under 30-k)—Paid 3.30%
Now, this is not to say that people who make less are lazy, bad, insignificant or any other negative connotation that you might want to attribute to them. Or that you might want to insinuate that I am attributing to them. My point is simple, they just make less money. And because of that, they pay a great deal less in taxes.
On the other hand it appears that the rich are indeed pulling the wagon. When you make 137-k or better (top 5%) you are paying almost 60% of all taxes collected in the USA.
Instead of attacking “rich people” we should be thanking them for carrying the bulk of the financial load in America. On top of that they are also producing more relative to the GNP. They are in short “performing” and without them this country that we all love would be headed down hill at a faster rate than a bleeding heart liberal can shout “I HATE THE RICH!”
It’s odd in a way, the best performers of any business or sports team are lauded for their many contributions. But in the world of political know nothings they are attacked.
[/quote]
You make it a personal thing. People that are in the top 1% or even 10% make good money. They are CEO of a company, some are a tenured university professor. I’m not dishing their accomplishments, but if you take them out of the equation, somebody else would be that CEO, somebody else would be that professor. And they would be making that money.
You make it sound as if these people are personally essential to the economy. They are not. If one of them dies, they are replaced.
The graveyard is filled with people that can’t be replaced.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
My wife and I are in the top 10 % (wife’s a tenured university professor). We are not rich by any means and have not taken vacation in 3 years because of taxes. What galls me the most is when someone demagogues people who make a buck, as if they’re not paying enough. As the stats show, this is at best laughable and at most evil. Do these peoplope realize at all what someone had to go through to GET to the position of making that money? My wife earned a Phd and beat 110 people for her job. Who can do that? Some bloated fat cat on Capitol Hill? He’s too busy hitting on male interns. Yet people vote for a jackoff like that, who figures out more ways to tax people.
[/quote]
I’m not trying to deminish your wife’s achievements, but if she hadn’t gotten that job, it would have gone to someone else who would have made that money. It’s not like she’s making gold from thin air.
[quote] Taxes are immoral and destructive of incentive. I think we could do better than financing our government through extortion.
[/quote]
You shouldn’t speak about stuff you don’t know the first thing about. About morality for instance.
Also, taxes are used to pay your wifes wages.
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
[quote]summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke. [/quote]
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…
[quote]orion wrote:
Smitty88 wrote:
orion wrote:
The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
Please offer some proof of this asinine assertion. Otherwise, it is simply more meaningless rhetoric from the left.
First of all when it comes to legal tax evasion you are on my political left…
Then, I would look into the taxation of privat trusts if where you…
The numbers for Austria are 12,5% taxation if the capital gains remain in the trust and another 25% for the beneficiaries if they receive money from the trust.
As you can see it is very easy to stay under 20% a year by leaving the money in he trust and only get money out of it whn you need it.
You could also set up a trust in a country where private trust taxation is close to zero, Liechtenstein comes to mind, I think Monaco, Luxembourg might also be opions.
As a second example my uninformed right wing friend company earnings are usually taxed very little IF they are plowed back into the firms business (for very good economic reasons I might add)which kind of has the same effect as a trust fund.
Corporations usually have a variety of ways to downplay their actual profit, and the US accounting system gives them even more options to paint the picture thy want.
Enron anyone?
Now, you might ask young Padawan, what if they sell their shares, would thy not have to pay income taxes on them then?
Not, and so the circle closes, if they put it into a privat trust, which pays little if anything on capital gains.
How is that for liberal propaganda.
PS: You think it does not work like that in the US?
Mwuahahahaahaha!!!
Ahem, sorry…
[/quote]
I’m sorry, I’m not at all familiar with the tax structure of Austria.
I simply wanted you to give specific examples of how US taxpayers are able to as you stated:
Can you give specific examples and accurate percentages regarding your above statement?
If so please post them.
If not save us more meaningless jaunts through the Austrian tax code. No one cares.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Smitty88 wrote:
For all of the liberals who are confused as to who pays the taxes in this country.
2004 tax statistics:
Top 1% ($328-k)-----------Paid 36.89%
Top 5% ($137-k------------Paid 57.13%
Top 10%($99-k)------------Paid 68.19%
Top 25%($60-k)------------Paid 84.86%
Top 50%(30-k)-------------Paid 96.70%
Bottom 50% (under 30-k)—Paid 3.30%
Now, this is not to say that people who make less are lazy, bad, insignificant or any other negative connotation that you might want to attribute to them. Or that you might want to insinuate that I am attributing to them. My point is simple, they just make less money. And because of that, they pay a great deal less in taxes.
On the other hand it appears that the rich are indeed pulling the wagon. When you make 137-k or better (top 5%) you are paying almost 60% of all taxes collected in the USA.
Instead of attacking “rich people” we should be thanking them for carrying the bulk of the financial load in America. On top of that they are also producing more relative to the GNP. They are in short “performing” and without them this country that we all love would be headed down hill at a faster rate than a bleeding heart liberal can shout “I HATE THE RICH!”
It’s odd in a way, the best performers of any business or sports team are lauded for their many contributions. But in the world of political know nothings they are attacked.
You make it a personal thing. People that are in the top 1% or even 10% make good money. They are CEO of a company, some are a tenured university professor. I’m not dishing their accomplishments, but if you take them out of the equation, somebody else would be that CEO, somebody else would be that professor. And they would be making that money.
You make it sound as if these people are personally essential to the economy. They are not. If one of them dies, they are replaced.
The graveyard is filled with people that can’t be replaced.
[/quote]
I think you missed the entire point.
That is, those who are at the top, or close to the top and able to rise to that spot should the top guy leave, are the ones who make the economy hum along nicely.
In other words, no matter how many top CEO’s die, the local street sweeper won’t be falling into the top position.
[quote]summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke. [/quote]
You can’t back that up with any facts.
It is total unadulterated BULLSHIT.
There are a tiny amount of significant US corporations which are titled as “off shore.” The overwhelming majority of US corporations pay a significant amount of taxes.
Now apologize to the board for spreading left wing propaganda.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
You shouldn’t speak about stuff you don’t know the first thing about. About morality for instance.
[/quote]
One of my degrees is in Philosophy. I’d wager I know more about it than a blowhard like you.
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
Can you give specific examples and accurate percentages regarding your above statement?
If so please post them.
If not save us more meaningless jaunts through the Austrian tax code. No one cares.
[/quote]
Come on, don`t play stupid…
We did not invent private trusts, we are only copying the system…
I know how it is done,if you are interested in it too, feel free to look it up for your state…
Then, taxes in Austria are usually higher, meaning your rich would pay even less…
Offshore trust, google them… OMG, allmost 10 MILLION hits…
How many empoyess do yu know interested in offshore trusts?
If you are not interested feel free to beleiv whatever your political religion tells you, my point stands:
The super-rich, the rich and even the reasonably wealthy pay less taxes in percentage points than everyone else BECAUSE THEY CAN…
Or more precisely everyone gettin a salary CANNOT evade taxes legally…
Did I mention sheep getting fleeced regularily?
[quote]orion wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…[/quote]
First, no one has pricing power. No one! Prices will not be going up for anything…or almost anything. Second, the fucking accounting shenanigans companies are still getting away with is crazy. Companies are being run to make management rich. I am not left wing bitches, I make my living investing other peoples money. The negative of simply enforcing the current accounting rules would be lower corporate profits for shitty companies which most people own in their portfolios.
[quote]summa wrote:
orion wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…
First, no one has pricing power. No one! Prices will not be going up for anything…or almost anything. Second, the fucking accounting shenanigans companies are still getting away with is crazy. Companies are being run to make management rich. I am not left wing bitches, I make my living investing other peoples money. The negative of simply enforcing the current accounting rules would be lower corporate profits for shitty companies which most people own in their portfolios.
[/quote]
Cool ,they won`t raise prizes then…
They`ll lay off employess instead…
Or they go bancrupt, laying off all employess, damaging their investors…
Yay, let us increase taxes, the more money is under the control of the governement the better…
[quote]summa wrote:
orion wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…
First, no one has pricing power. No one! Prices will not be going up for anything…or almost anything. Second, the fucking accounting shenanigans companies are still getting away with is crazy. Companies are being run to make management rich. I am not left wing bitches, I make my living investing other peoples money. The negative of simply enforcing the current accounting rules would be lower corporate profits for shitty companies which most people own in their portfolios.
[/quote]
If you really made your money investing other people’s money - you would know how inane your comments are.
For starters. All prices will go up if there is a punitive corporate income tax.
Secondly - ANYONE that invests money kinows that the only job of the corporation is to maximize shareholder earnings - not management’s.
Idiots.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
summa wrote:
orion wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…
First, no one has pricing power. No one! Prices will not be going up for anything…or almost anything. Second, the fucking accounting shenanigans companies are still getting away with is crazy. Companies are being run to make management rich. I am not left wing bitches, I make my living investing other peoples money. The negative of simply enforcing the current accounting rules would be lower corporate profits for shitty companies which most people own in their portfolios.
If you really made your money investing other people’s money - you would know how inane your comments are.
For starters. All prices will go up if there is a punitive corporate income tax.
Secondly - ANYONE that invests money kinows that the only job of the corporation is to maximize shareholder earnings - not management’s.
Idiots. [/quote]
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
[quote]orion wrote:
summa wrote:
orion wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…
First, no one has pricing power. No one! Prices will not be going up for anything…or almost anything. Second, the fucking accounting shenanigans companies are still getting away with is crazy. Companies are being run to make management rich. I am not left wing bitches, I make my living investing other peoples money. The negative of simply enforcing the current accounting rules would be lower corporate profits for shitty companies which most people own in their portfolios.
Cool ,they won`t raise prizes then…
They`ll lay off employess instead…
Or they go bancrupt, laying off all employess, damaging their investors…
Yay, let us increase taxes, the more money is under the control of the governement the better…[/quote]
The US gov borrows money everday to just finance the interest on what they borrowed yesterday. Who is going to pay the debt? Joe Shmoe? Obviously taxes have to go up somewhere.
Oh, and by the way, it’s prices not prizes.
orion:
Cool, you like to type posts.
But you still did not back up your original assertion:
And it looks like you’re not going to.
[quote]summa wrote:
The US gov borrows money everday to just finance the interest on what they borrowed yesterday. Who is going to pay the debt? Joe Shmoe? Obviously taxes have to go up somewhere.
Oh, and by the way, it’s prices not prizes.
[/quote]
And they will go up…
Who is going to pay?
Joe Shmoe consumer, you said it…
You know why?
He can`t run, nor can he hide…