Ok, how does Andre Dawson go into the Hall of Fame as a Montreal Expo over a Chicago Cub? Montreal doesn’t even have a team anymore. Would it really offend their three fans if he was enshrined as a Cub?
How about Bert Blyleven? Is this guy ever gonna get in? If he came out of retirement to win the extra 13 or so games would it help? I’m sure he could if he juiced up like Clemens.
Lastly, Why is Ron Santo still not in the Hall of Fame? Almost every sports writer who knows ANYTHING about baseball agrees he is a hands down Hall of Famer!
Stop talking about should Mark “Andro” McGwire be in the Hall and put guys that are really deserving in.
I’m pretty sure that the player gets to choose which team he goes into the HOF under.
Unless a player is a hands down first ballot there is always going to be room to argue for or against their inclusion into the Hall. Then again, debating stats is kinda what makes baseball so great.
Obviously the process needs to be revamped; it is absolutely ridiculous that the writers are the ones who vote. Many are biased for or against certain players and there are former writers who still have a vote but potentially haven’t watched a game in years. Basically, it is the voting that is fucked up, not the HOF.
[quote]BBriere wrote:
Ok, how does Andre Dawson go into the Hall of Fame as a Montreal Expo over a Chicago Cub? Montreal doesn’t even have a team anymore.[/quote]
Maybe because he played almost twice as many seasons with them?
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
I’m pretty sure that the player gets to choose which team he goes into the HOF under.
[/quote]
They don’t. There was some deal where a couple of HOF inductees were trying to get the different teams that they played for to “bid” for the team that the player would go in under. The HOF decides which team you go in as.
Roberto Alomar didn’t get in…something is wrong here. Spitting on an ump was pretty lame, but I heard one writer say that he would never get his vote, ever.
Also, has anyone seen the George Brett remix of his I shit my pants story. Somebody put it to music. Hysterical… To me anyway.
Yeah, Dawson said he preferred to be a Cub, but the committee chose Expos. Sure he played a little longer with them, but he put up the biggest numbers with the Cubs.
Robby Alomar will get in eventually as will Barry Larkin. I’m very disappointed that Fred McGriff barely received votes. This guy was a monster in his day. 30+ homers for like 9 years straight.
I think somehow Shawon Dunston snuck onto the ballot too.
[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
I’m pretty sure that the player gets to choose which team he goes into the HOF under.
[/quote]
They don’t. There was some deal where a couple of HOF inductees were trying to get the different teams that they played for to “bid” for the team that the player would go in under. The HOF decides which team you go in as.[/quote]
Thanks. I totally would have lost a bar bet over that one.
Does anybody else think in the next 5-10 years it’s gonna be about impossible to get in? Look at the guys coming up:
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Mike Piazza
And I’m sure there are plenty of others I’m overlooking. Some of these guys might face the fact that they won’t get in for 20+ years. Have you also ever wondered why they put guys like Dave Stieb on the ballot?
[quote]BBriere wrote:
Does anybody else think in the next 5-10 years it’s gonna be about impossible to get in? Look at the guys coming up:
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Mike Piazza
And I’m sure there are plenty of others I’m overlooking. Some of these guys might face the fact that they won’t get in for 20+ years. Have you also ever wondered why they put guys like Dave Stieb on the ballot?[/quote]
there’s no way any of those pitchers have a right to the hall over the rocket.
[quote]BBriere wrote:
Does anybody else think in the next 5-10 years it’s gonna be about impossible to get in? Look at the guys coming up:
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Mike Piazza
And I’m sure there are plenty of others I’m overlooking. Some of these guys might face the fact that they won’t get in for 20+ years. Have you also ever wondered why they put guys like Dave Stieb on the ballot?[/quote]
there’s no way any of those pitchers have a right to the hall over the rocket.
[/quote]
Right, I forgot about Clemens. He’ll be an interesting case along with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and Palmeiro. Will any of the known or suspected steroid abusers get in?
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
there’s no way any of those pitchers have a right to the hall over the rocket.
[/quote]
Depending on how you weight the character clause, you can certainly make a great case for Maddux and Johnson over Clemens.
Maddux: 355 wins, 3.16 ERA (132 ERA+), 3371 strikeouts with a 3.37 K/BB ratio
Johnson: 303 wins, 3.29 ERA (136 ERA+), 4875 strikeouts with a 3.26 K/BB ratio
Clemens: 354 wins, 3.12 ERA (143 ERA+), 4672 strikeouts with a 2.96 K/BB ratio
Clemens is better (top 5 and you can make a reasonable argument he was the best pitcher of all time) but Maddux and Johnson are both probably top-20 guys. I don’t put much stock into the character clause, but it is in there and if you want to penalize Clemens for the steroids, it’s not unreasonable to put Maddux and Johnson in ahead of him.
[quote]BBriere wrote:
Does anybody else think in the next 5-10 years it’s gonna be about impossible to get in? Look at the guys coming up:
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Mike Piazza
And I’m sure there are plenty of others I’m overlooking. Some of these guys might face the fact that they won’t get in for 20+ years. Have you also ever wondered why they put guys like Dave Stieb on the ballot?[/quote]
there’s no way any of those pitchers have a right to the hall over the rocket.
[/quote]
Really? You are kidding right? Must live on the east coast. Even with steroids he just barely out performed Maddux for his career and he effectively pitched one more season.
Randy Johnson, presumably with out juice, blew him away in performance.
This doesn’t even include Pedro, who destroyed him as well.
Those three will be close to unanimous selections when they are up. Roger will be lucky to make it in on his first try.
[quote]BBriere wrote:
Does anybody else think in the next 5-10 years it’s gonna be about impossible to get in? Look at the guys coming up:
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
Randy Johnson
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Barry Bonds
Mike Piazza
And I’m sure there are plenty of others I’m overlooking. Some of these guys might face the fact that they won’t get in for 20+ years. Have you also ever wondered why they put guys like Dave Stieb on the ballot?[/quote]
there’s no way any of those pitchers have a right to the hall over the rocket.
[/quote]
Really? You are kidding right? Must live on the east coast. Even with steroids he just barely out performed Maddux for his career and he effectively pitched one more season.
Randy Johnson, presumably with out juice, blew him away in performance.
This doesn’t even include Pedro, who destroyed him as well.
Those three will be close to unanimous selections when they are up. Roger will be lucky to make it in on his first try. [/quote]
I didn’t include Pedro because he is still pitching. I only thought of guys that are no longer in the game. Otherwise I would include Ken Griffey, Alex Rodriguez, Jim Thome, and others.
In my personal opinion Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens would have put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers without the steroids. Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, and Rafael Palmeiro I’m not sure about. Bottom line is, what was baseball’s rule on steroids at the time they were being abused? The harsh punishments came afterwards.
[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
Randy Johnson, presumably with out juice, blew him away in performance.[/quote]
Nah, they had very comparable rate numbers (with Clemens being slightly ahead, even) and Clemens pitched about 800 innings (nearly 4 full seasons) more. Johnson was great, but Clemens was better. But, I’m with you, take into effect the steroids and there is a good case for Randy before Clemens for the Hall. Both should still be in though.
And Pedro probably had the best peak of any pitcher, but then again, he has close ties to Angel Presinal, who is thought to the Godfather of baseball steroids in the DR.
last 3 pitchers to win the MVP award: Roger Clemens, 6x All-Star Vida Blue, and fucking Bob Gibson. clemens also has 7 Cy youngs, the most of all time. Clemens was also voted on to the all-century team in 1999. everybody who hasn’t officially broken any major rule such as those regarding steroids should be inducted if they deserve it…but if he doesn’t go in as a yankee and goes in with a big red b then fuck the juice-head.
