[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What is the “Plurality of the gods?” Sorry, there are schisms within Cristianity, and then there’s going completely off the reservation.
That’s like saying Hansel and Gretel is fact because it involves real children, compared to Henny Penny, which involves a talking chicken.[/quote]
What?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
And I posted the actual circumstances of these “virgin births.” The ones I double checked weren’t even “virgin births.” Some didn’t even involve virgins. Your similarities are similar to fantasies about, and excuse my language, popping some virgin’s cherry. Except, instead of some pimply faced adolescent male or sports car driving middle aged male, we have Zeus. [/quote]
So you’re going to cherry pick a couple of myths with alternate versions, while ignoring all the others, and insist that stories about Zeus are the only virgin myths?
Whatever. Even if the Greek stories were the only virgin stories, it’s clear that Greek culture and philosophy were well known among the Jews, and influenced their stories and traditions.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
And I posted the actual circumstances of these “virgin births.” The ones I double checked weren’t even “virgin births.” Some didn’t even involve virgins. Your similarities are similar to fantasies about, and excuse my language, popping some virgin’s cherry. Except, instead of some pimply faced adolescent male or sports car driving middle aged male, we have Zeus.
So you’re going to cherry pick a couple of myths with alternate versions, while ignoring all the others, and insist that stories about Zeus are the only virgin myths?
Whatever. Even if the Greek stories were the only virgin stories, it’s clear that Greek culture and philosophy were well known among the Jews, and influenced their stories and traditions.[/quote]
I’ve invited you to share these stories a couple times. I didn’t cherry pick. All I had to do was pick out a couple familiar names and double check. Again, share these virgin birth stories. And please, a woman isn’t still a virgin after being raped or seduced by a God.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What is the “Plurality of the gods?” Sorry, there are schisms within Cristianity, and then there’s going completely off the reservation.
That’s like saying Hansel and Gretel is fact because it involves real children, compared to Henny Penny, which involves a talking chicken.
What?[/quote]
Translation: It’s a little silly to claim that one fairy tale is more valid than another fairy tale. At the end of the day, they’re all fairy tales.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What is the “Plurality of the gods?” Sorry, there are schisms within Cristianity, and then there’s going completely off the reservation.
That’s like saying Hansel and Gretel is fact because it involves real children, compared to Henny Penny, which involves a talking chicken.
What?
Translation: It’s a little silly to claim that one fairy tale is more valid than another fairy tale. At the end of the day, they’re all fairy tales.[/quote]
Translation: You don’t want to talk about it.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’ve invited you to share these stories a couple times. I didn’t cherry pick. All I had to do was pick out a couple familiar names and double check. Again, share these virgin birth stories. And please, a woman isn’t still a virgin after being raped or seduced by a God.
[/quote]
Dude, a simple Google search will make it abundantly clear that there are many, many stories of virgin births across many cultures that precede the story of the virgin Mary.
If you don’t believe me, why the hell would Justin Martyr address the “pagan myths” in his First Apology, written in the second century:
According to Justin Martyr, these stories were counterfeits concoted by Satan, but unlike you, he at least recognized that they existed.
If you’re going to quibble about Mary still being a virgin following her impregnation, here’s a good one for you from Wiki:
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’ve invited you to share these stories a couple times. I didn’t cherry pick. All I had to do was pick out a couple familiar names and double check. Again, share these virgin birth stories. And please, a woman isn’t still a virgin after being raped or seduced by a God.
Dude, a simple Google search will make it abundantly clear that there are many, many stories of virgin births across many cultures that precede the story of the virgin Mary.
If you don’t believe me, why the hell would Justin Martyr address the “pagn myths” in his First Apology, written in the second century:
“Be well assured, then, Trypho,” I continued, “that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the Devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah’s days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by Jupiter’s intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that the Devil has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses?”
According to Justin Martyr, these stories were counterfeits concoted by Satan, but unlike you, he at least recognized that they existed.[/quote]
You are something else. “Jupiter’s INTERCOURSE with Semele…”
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You are something else. “Jupiter’s INTERCOURSE with Semele…”[/quote]
See my edit above for an example not involving intercourse, as if the other examples couldn’t possibly influence the story of the virgin Mary. I guess Justin Martyr didn’t know his history as well as you do.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’ve invited you to share these stories a couple times. I didn’t cherry pick. All I had to do was pick out a couple familiar names and double check. Again, share these virgin birth stories. And please, a woman isn’t still a virgin after being raped or seduced by a God.
Dude, a simple Google search will make it abundantly clear that there are many, many stories of virgin births across many cultures that precede the story of the virgin Mary.
If you don’t believe me, why the hell would Justin Martyr address the “pagan myths” in his First Apology, written in the second century:
“Be well assured, then, Trypho,” I continued, “that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the Devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah’s days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by Jupiter’s intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that the Devil has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses?”
According to Justin Martyr, these stories were counterfeits concoted by Satan, but unlike you, he at least recognized that they existed.
If you’re going to quibble about Mary still being a virgin following her impregnation, here’s a good one for you from Wiki:
However, an example of a story where the woman’s physical virginity is explicitly maintained by the god who impregnates her by artificial insemination is found in a Hindu Purana. “The sun-god said: O beautiful PÃ?¡Ã?¹?thÃ???, your meeting with the demigods cannot be fruitless. Therefore, let me place my seed in your womb so that you may bear a son. I shall arrange to keep your virginity intact, since you are still an unmarried girl.”[/quote]
“MY seed in your womb…keep your virginity intact, since you are still an unmarried girl.” I guess somebody orgasmed…
Yeah, Mary’s spiritual and physical virginity is comparable to a story where a woman is filled with the semen of a god via artificial insemination, keeping her physical virginity “intact.”
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
You are something else. “Jupiter’s INTERCOURSE with Semele…”
See my edit above for an example not involving intercourse, as if the other examples couldn’t possibly influence the story of the virgin Mary. I guess Justin Martyr didn’t know his history as well as you do.[/quote]
Yeah, theology just stops with Justin Martyr.
So a god impregnating a virgin with his divine seed, and keeping her virginity intact, instead of impregnating her through the Holy Spirit, and keeping her virginity intact, is so qualitatively different that it’s impossible for one story to have any bearing on the other. Lol.
The point of Justin Martyr’s discourse was to address the criticism that the stories about Jesus were suspiciously similar to other stories/myths that preceded them. Justin Martyr agreed that the stories were similar, but his explanation was that the devil was a copycat.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
You are something else. “Jupiter’s INTERCOURSE with Semele…”
See my edit above for an example not involving intercourse, as if the other examples couldn’t possibly influence the story of the virgin Mary. I guess Justin Martyr didn’t know his history as well as you do.[/quote]
What’s funny is you don’t even say “Oh dang, ok, they had intercourse. Got me on that one.”
[quote]forlife wrote:
So a god impregnating a virgin with his divine seed, and keeping her virginity intact, instead of impregnating her through the Holy Spirit, and keeping her virginity intact, is so qualitatively different that it’s impossible for one story to have any bearing on the other. Lol.
The point of Justin Martyr’s discourse was to address the criticism that the stories about Jesus were suspiciously similar to other stories/myths that preceded them. Justin Martyr agreed that the stories were similar, but his explanation was that the devil was a copycat.[/quote]
Oh yes, suspiciously similar. His example of Zeus actually screwing a woman, so similar.
[quote]forlife wrote:
So a god impregnating a virgin with his divine seed, and keeping her virginity intact, instead of impregnating her through the Holy Spirit, and keeping her virginity intact, is so qualitatively different that it’s impossible for one story to have any bearing on the other. Lol.
The point of Justin Martyr’s discourse was to address the criticism that the stories about Jesus were suspiciously similar to other stories/myths that preceded them. Justin Martyr agreed that the stories were similar, but his explanation was that the devil was a copycat.[/quote]
Uh, seed would be semen. Where’s the similarity? The sun god actually has to ARRANGE for her virginity to stay intact in the process. And this is only arranged since she’s unmarried. Otherwise, had she been married, cue porno music. Real similar.
Justin Martyr compared the two, not me. He does have a point, though. Both myths have gods impregnating a human female to create a demi-god, both myths equate the demi-god with wine and the vine, and both myths have the demi-god dying, rising again, and ascending to heaven.
Not to mention all the other stories listed earlier about being dead for exactly 3 days before rising again, etc. It’s a bit of a stretch to say there are no similarities.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Sloth wrote:
And I posted the actual circumstances of these “virgin births.” The ones I double checked weren’t even “virgin births.” Some didn’t even involve virgins. Your similarities are similar to fantasies about, and excuse my language, popping some virgin’s cherry. Except, instead of some pimply faced adolescent male or sports car driving middle aged male, we have Zeus.
So you’re going to cherry pick a couple of myths with alternate versions, while ignoring all the others, and insist that stories about Zeus are the only virgin myths?
Whatever. Even if the Greek stories were the only virgin stories, it’s clear that Greek culture and philosophy were well known among the Jews, and influenced their stories and traditions.[/quote]
You did the same thing with scripture? How is that different. The book isn’t a fairy tale, Paul is writing to the Corinths about their actions and beliefs.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Justin Martyr compared the two, not me. He does have a point, though. Both myths have gods impregnating a human female to create a demi-god, both myths equate the demi-god with wine and the vine, and both myths have the demi-god dying, rising again, and ascending to heaven.
Not to mention all the other stories listed earlier about being dead for exactly 3 days before rising again, etc. It’s a bit of a stretch to say there are no similarities. [/quote]
Both do not have the “creation” of a “demi-god”. Christ, existed before Mary was even born. A major difference. In one you have a pre-existing God sharing the human experience of being born. The other is created then and there, a demi-god, with a mortal woman. Massive difference.
And impregnate? If you mean one without seed or sex, and the other through actual intercourse, I guess…
Equate both with wine and vine? Dionysius is the god of wine. Christ simply instituted the communinion through food commonly shared together at the time, bread and wine. There was no “Wine is my godly jurisdiction, so I best use wine.” Good thing goat’s milk wasn’t served at that moment!
Risen again after being torn limb from limb by the tyrants, from his heart, by the power of Zeus? Or, where Zeus strikes down Semele with lightning, but saves the unborn child from the mother’s ashes by sewing the fetus into his thigh?.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
You did the same thing with scripture? How is that different. The book isn’t a fairy tale, Paul is writing to the Corinths about their actions and beliefs.[/quote]
I’m talking about fairy tales like Moses turning a staff into a serpent, Elijah ascending to heaven in a chariot of fire, Joshua commanding the sun to stand still, Jesus turning water into wine, etc. It is a book full of fairy tales, and only the ridiculously naive believe those things actually happened (usually while scoffing at the silly myths of the Greeks and Romans).
Take it up with Justin Martyr, Sloth. Apparently he, a believer more educated and closer to the actual events than you, thought the parallels to be compelling enough to address them.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Take it up with Justin Martyr, Sloth. Apparently he, a believer more educated and closer to the actual events than you, thought the parallels to be compelling enough to address them.[/quote]
Cop out.