It’s marxist bullshit. They hate capitalism. If you look at how they describe whiteness and white values (which are nonsensical terms), they seem a lot like capitalism. So they label capitalism as white supremacy and dare anyone to disagree with them.
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Values like “objective truth” and “meritocracy”
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They are called immigrants.
The question is, did white people do this because of dna or circumstance? I believe it’s circumstance, given that people of all racial and ethnic backgrounds can be successful in these societies.
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There’s definitely an element out there that fits this description and at one point I would have agreed with this statement in its entirety. That said, I’ve kept reading about this in an effort to wrap my head around it and my viewpoint has definitely shifted. What I’ve found is that, in most instances, the criticisms of “white” culture don’t actually seem crazy if you just remove the word “white” (it’s interesting to do this with that article “White Supremacy Culture” that’s gotten a lot of airplay recently). Criticisms of values like objectivity, sense of urgency, meritocracy, etc. are really hard to hear because they sound insane initially. I don’t think they’re so far-fetched when you read beyond the soundbite though. True, many of the values under fire are of a capitalist nature. I maintain that the criticism is primarily leveled at the excesses of capitalism and not merely the accumulation of any wealth. I think the folks who push these notions have deliberately picked controversial titles in the name of drawing attention, which backfires when it repulses people who might otherwise listen. I also think the part of the media that wages war on these notions has done a superb job of making it sound crazier than it is (ie “SJWs say teaching kids to show their work in math class is racist”). There are definitely still notions out there that are too far afield for me to entertain, and while much of this agenda may address what goes on in the whiter parts of society I do agree that the categorization of these as “white” problems has contributed to race-baiting and can be counterproductive. Long story long, it’s worth it to me to continue grappling with these ideas for the sake of not overlooking something even if some of it is bullshit.
Somewhat related point: going to AllSides for my news has gone a long way towards demystifying a lot of this stuff.
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@doogie - I’m not really “answering” your post but something to consider is one’s definition of a successful society. One could look at a variety of groups in America right now and not feel that they come from a successful society, haha.
I have one possible definition: how many people want to immigrate to the society vs how many want to flee from it. People are dying, literally, to get to western nations.
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Can you expand on why you don’t think criticisms of those specific values are not far-fetched?
Outstanding.
This needs emphasis.
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Here’s the thing, and it’s where these people reveal their own bigotry and racism: they claim that black people are incapable of succeeding under these “white” conditions. It reveals their American-centric view of the world and their lack of contact with people outside of a university setting. They don’t see the black people in America, and the rest of the world, who are successful. They think most black people are poor and uneducated victims. More blacks in America are middle class than living in poverty but they wouldn’t know that because they are basically shut ins. Go tell the Nigerians who come here and succeed that they are genetically incapable of being on time or objective or can’t get the exact answer in math.
They go even further to suggest that “white” people came up with these values in order to keep black people down. I’m sure the ancient Greeks were thinking about black people when they were laying the foundations for western culture.
The woman who started the whole white privilege agenda as we know it, grew up in a wealthy home surrounded by other white people. She then concluded that all white people must share her experience and all black people must be poor and living in the ghetto. This person who lacked any knowledge of the world outside of her white community and ivy league university is the one who we look to teach us about race in America?
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I agree with you that they are likely meant to be controversial. Probably to get a devote set of followers, more than to piss those who disagree off.
I think they would be more palatable to the general public, if they had more of a positive promotion of certain values, than negative of current things. Like we should value people for being good family / society members, more so than math is white supremacy. I don’t think as many people would donate money to stances like that though even though more would be like “sure I agree”.
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You don’t think they really believe what they are saying? They do and recent history, if you look outside of the US, shows us they believe their own BS.
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I am no expert on these groups. I do think that if your goal is to get donations, publicity, that catering towards a more extreme group is a viable strategy. I am sure some are full believers in the whole thing.
There are professors teaching this in colleges. It is being taught in public schools. This goes beyond donations.
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Born in 1948 and raised in the south since I was 3 years old, I have seen a tremendous amount of transition. As a child I saw “white only” drinking fountains and restrooms. I saw how the community transition, albeit slow, after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It could easily be seen that there was real white supremacy throughout. But as time transpired hearts changed. Sure there were some diehard white supremacy in pockets.
As integration became more accepted, more diversity began to spread throughout, the schools, businesses, housing, etc. White supremacy pockets shrank and reduced in number. Today… evidence is difficult to find.
I suppose every race has pride in their own race, but with all the interracial marriage there is less and less purity within any race.
I saw real white supremacy in the '50’s and '60’s. But today, IMO, white supremacy is the boogeyman.
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I have no doubt that some fully bought in. I do think there are some that are a bit more Machiavellian. I think the latter group has had influence around the messaging. Of course it is just speculation on my part, but I think most organizations have these type of people.
They see white supremacy as a set of values that one needs to believe in or adhere to in order to be successful in America. Black people, in their opinion, are incapable of adopting these values because somehow they are genetic.
Sure – I’ll give an example. BLUF: my point here is that this isn’t wildly insane – not that I 100% agree with everything in the example. I’ve deliberately picked a hard one for illustrative purposes. The definition of “Objectivity” and the associated “Antidotes” are quoted from the article I referenced in my last post, my responses are the bolded text:
Objectivity
- The belief that there is such a thing as being objective
Somewhat disagree: none of us can be 100% objective because we all carry biases of one form or another. I don’t think that prevents us from trying for and ultimately getting close to true objectivity - The belief that emotions are inherently destructive, irrational, and should not play a role in decision-making or group process
Dependent: I still don’t think it’s appropriate to make decisions based solely on emotion, but it is important to acknowledge that emotions creep into decisions even when we think we’re being 100% logical - Invalidating people who show emotion
Agree: I do believe that there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to display emotion, but I’ve seen plenty of valid points written off because someone wasn’t perfectly robotic in their delivery - Requiring people to think in a linear fashion and ignoring or invalidating those who think in other ways
Somewhat agree: I struggle with this one because I’m a pretty linear person. That said, I’ve definitely overlooked my share of important points before because they didn’t follow my thought process - Impatience with any thinking that does not appear “logical” to those with power
Same as last response
Antidotes
- Realize that everybody has a world view and that everybody’s world view affects the way they understand things
Agree: Lesson I learned in the Marines - Realize this means you too
Agree: same as last point - Push yourself to sit with discomfort when people are expressing themselves in ways which are not familiar to you
Agree: pretty much what I’m trying to do here - Assume that everybody has a valid point and your job is to understand what that point is
Somewhat agree: I don’t actually think that everyone has a valid point, but I do think it’s my responsibility to grapple with new ideas that may not make immediate sense in the interest of getting to the right answer
So if I had to score how well this “fits” with my own thoughts, it’s probably a 5/10 at best. The first time I heard the notion that objectivity was a hallmark of white supremacy I dismissed it entirely – point being is that I’m not as far off as I would have assumed. Why are these “white” characteristics? My read is that they’re “white” because they’re considered common or normal and often to the exclusion of anything different. To get to @zecarlo point, the way these are packaged and used in common discourse they often sound like a spear being thrown at you simply for being white, which makes it really hard to not be totally dismissive. For the record anyone who implies that white people (or any other people) are genetically flawed is a loon in my book, but I also don’t think that is what’s usually being implied. Regardless, I think if we have any hope of mending any of our many societal rifts, it requires us to sift carefully through what’s being said and separate the points that might be worth consideration from the true bullshit.
These people take a binary approach, black vs white. Thus, it’s not that they have a less strict view on objectivity as much as it’s a rejection of objectivity. That’s why you hear the moronic phrase, “speak your truth.”
Partially agree. And regarding one of your prior posts, it’s tough to ascribe credibility to what someone’s saying when their underlying premise is that all white people have consciously and uniformly conspired to suppress everyone else. I guess I’m also just not that concerned about getting on the same page with folks who hold those opinions. Even if they’re X% wrong, I can still contemplate / accept the (1-X)% they get right without a wholesale acceptance of their entire agenda.
Where in “white” culture is objectivity seen as the only thing that matters? That everything can be reduced to some objective truth? In the sciences it makes sense. Engineering and math. But if “white” culture or Western Culture (s) did not care about emotions and different interpretations and perspectives of reality, then how does one explain the arts and philosophy? Did these people ever read Hamlet? See Michelangelo’s statue of David? Listen to Bach? Read Ariosto? Cervantes? Or moving ahead, Melville and Camus?