No and I think a certain level of prejudice will always exist.
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As @SkyzykS said, we tend to run into a circular argument here. Kind of annoying, yes - and thereās a ton of evidence that just working hard can get you anywhere from anywhere. Whether or not some type of privilege affected your relatives would come down to the relationships you all formed along the way, and whether or not individuals you all came into contact with would have treated somebody of color differently. I am certainly not saying that was the case, just providing a (weak) possible answer to your question. My family were also Austrian, and we had to change our name to something German since the original one was Jewish-sounding, came here as immigrants, and almost all of us have PhDs (actually kind of funny how similar our backgrounds are), so Iām not discounting anyoneās hard work.
One more question:
When I mentioned all those who were alive and remember the pre-civil rights era, I was predominantly talking about people of color. But what about the other side of the aisle? Those kids you can see in black and white pictures throwing rocks and snarling at blacks during protests and desegregation, whatever happened to them, or to the children of young adults yet to have kids, or to the children of police in areas where the police departments were heavily infiltrated and influenced by the Klan? What did they grow up to be? Are some police like their parents? Are their parents commissioners? Are they senators? Are they president? Trumpās Dad WAS arrested at a Klan rally, so the last question is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but itās interesting to wonder where those people ended up. Yes, my family came HERE and did okay as Jews, but where they CAME FROM, Jews had it bad for a long time after the war was over.
Again, Iām not saying white privilege exists. I just think if it did, it might be subtle and near-impossible for me to see, so I like to ask questions like this. Iām certainly not guilty, and would never issue some ridiculous apology, either.
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In general, I think itās safe to say that being white in America has been better than being black or Indian. So if there is a privilege it has an historical foundation. Black people were not supposed to have the same responsibilities as whites, and didnāt for centuries, so obviously that can impact a people going forward. You are talking about a slave culture that suddenly has to learn how to be a self-actualizing culture. Immigrants came here in order to have control over their lives and their destinies, and those of their children as well. That is something they pass down to their kids by example. Black people never had that example (but you see later African immigrants exhibiting typical immigrant values).
Anyway, I think white privilege is a divisive term that doesnāt address how to fix any problems. If someone has white privilege because his parents were doctors and set him on a path to a successful career, as their parents before them, then what can he do? Erase his memory? Not go to college? Not work hard? Should white people not give their children every advantage they can? The problem isnāt what white people supposedly have (because we never see truly poor whites on TV even though they exist) but what African-Americans lack, in a general sense (but what more recent African and Caribbean blacks do have). You donāt lift a people up by tearing others down. You donāt end white privilege, whatever it is, but you can try and help people learn the values needed to succeed in this country.
A culture that valued those things and found a way to express those values. If you look at African immigrants vs African-Americans you see a difference in values. How did African-Americans lose what Africans have? Your family still had to live in a society with everyone else. Blacks in this country were a people apart. They had different rules and needed different values to be what they were forced to be.
Some grew up, some are still children.
Well done! That was a proper, lucid, well thought out rantā¦
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Donāt apologize when you have nothing to apologize for. Thatās part of the problem. You spoke the truth and you spoke your truth, nothing wrong with that by any measure.
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Jordan Peterson has an interesting video out on white privileged. His basic point is, why is race (really color in the US) the variance that matters as it relates to privilege? Why isnāt it wealth? Why is geological location? Why isnāt it age? Why isnāt it health? Education? Intelligence? So on and so forth. Why skin color?
Yes, there are still racial issues stemming from pre-civil rights, Jim Crow, et al that weāve yet to overcome and we might not ever overcome them, but in 2018 is race really the main issue as it relates to āprivilegeā or rather as it relates to a gap in performance or other success measures? I would argue that itās not, that itās a much smaller portion of the issue than it once was if itās an issue at all. I would argue socioeconomic status, family structure, and culture are much bigger pieces of the puzzle in todayās world.
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Thatās not really the point. The point is, if we are going to move towards a more just society overall, we need to be moving in the direction of the Dr. King narrative of judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. We cannot do that if we double down on racial unfairness or fairness.
āWhite privilegeā implies by default that a Caucasian person cannot possibly understand what it means to be black and therefore cannot understand racism nor can sympathize or comprehend itās real consequences. Further, by the very fact that one is Caucasian, this person is advantaged in society by default as well. The third part of the āwhite privilegeā equation is that based on the listed 2 premises, Caucasians either need to be brought down a notch or self immolate in order to level the playing field.
The problem is, this is racist as hell. Just because you direct your hate to the majority does not mean itās not a racist thought.
If fairness is what we seek, then the Dr. King narrative is the goal that will get us there. Replacing racism with another kind of racism will only perpetuate the issue.
If you force people to defend themselves, they will.
For many black people it is. The problem with Petersonās argument is that those other factors he brings up are disproportionately represented in predominantly black communities. And it is because of race.
If there are white people with some of these disadvantages (and there are), it isnāt because they are white.
So the problem is, can you solve those issues among white people the same way as among black people, even though the root causes are different? Especially given we are not that far removed from those causes and definitely not far removed from their lingering effects.
Peterson is Canadian so I wouldnāt expect him to understand American history.
Nobody can do anything about what happened in the past. Staying pissed about it will give you a heart attack and wonāt advance progress.
Itās important to know the history, but if we piss on the lessons of history, it is as good as not knowing it.
Retribution and revenge will never change Jim Crow or slavery.
So I understand you correctly, youāre saying in their minds they feel like their problems exist because of their skin color, correct? Not that thatās factually accurate, but itās what they believe.
Because of how white people viewed them and skin color was part of that for white people.
I agree, and Iāve spent countless hours in welding booths and otj doing exactly that.
Which is what Iām saying. You canāt āfixā white privilege if it does actually exist but you can try and fix your own life so white privilege is no longer a thing, assuming it is one now.
History aside, the term āwhite privilegeā itself is an insidious twisting of language for political and ideological purposes.
If our fellow citizens are being denied rights and opportunities because some arbitrary group classification, that is corruption and a failing of government that should concern us all. We have Rights, which we should insist on, not āprivilegesā that are bestowed on us (and just as easily taken from us) by our kind and generous overlords.
Now, if someone came up with a less loaded term, I still donāt know if the concept holds water. It seems entirely based on feelings and assumptions. Iāve never heard of any data that proves āWhite privilegeā and I donāt think it is something that could be quantifiable.
Iād really like to see someone trace back the term to its origin. Iām willing to bet it came out of acedemia within the last 20 or 30 years, and I doubt it had anything other than assertions to back it up.
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White privilege isnāt a uniquely American issue? We phrase it white privilege, but I think, generally, people are referring to people of western European descent of Peterson is assumingly one of.
Maybe 50+ years ago and as I said, thatās a very smaller part of the issue now, imo. Personally, I think the fact that something like 65% of black kids live in a single parent household is much more detrimental to their success than how a minority of white people view them.
I had a friend from HS who was, and I assume still is, black. He started working construction over the summer, he was a pretty big kid, and it turned out it was with my father. My father is an old school guy and immigrant but when asked about my friend he said he worked hard, which basically meant he didnāt care about the kidās race because he valued work ethic more than skin color.
When I spoke to my friend he said it was hard work and talked about how hard the adults worked (they didnāt expect a HS kid to do what they did and he couldnāt anyway since it was skilled labor) and said that his people needed to learn that.
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I believe the concept to be true to some immeasurable degree, but I think the term is unnecessarily antagonistic.
Whatever white privilege is or isnāt, whatever race issues exist anywhere else, America has its own history with regard to those questions.
You might think that but go live in an inner city like I did and you will a community abandoned by the larger community. It doesnāt matter how racist individual Americans are or arenāt. The effects of racism are still alive and well.
And why do they live in those conditions? They chose to?