[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Spanish bring the first slaves as well as enslave the natives first, before any Anglo?[/quote]
I do believe so. The old American word for blacks was “negro”. Which also happens to be the Spanish word for black.
I wonder when was the last time a Mexican was called a “slave owner” due to his Spanish ancestry?
[quote]Tango-down wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Spanish bring the first slaves as well as enslave the natives first, before any Anglo?
I do believe so. The old American word for blacks was “negro”. Which also happens to be the Spanish word for black.
I wonder when was the last time a Mexican was called a “slave owner” due to his Spanish ancestry?[/quote]
Haha, don’t know about that, and I wasn’t trying to start that debate, I was just making sure that I was correct about the Spanish, since they were the first Euros to meet the natives. Think Cortez, Pizzaro, etc.
[quote]Tango-down wrote:
“People like me?” What the hell does that mean? [/quote]
People who want to pretend as if a lesser number of white comedians on BET or any other media using black jokes in their routine meant there was some kind of double standard where whites can’t tell jokes about black people. If this doesn’t describe you, then why are you acting as if what was stated was untrue or invalid?
[quote]
You cite one example and that disproves all? Sorry to question your omnipotence. I forgot that only your experiences and perceptions are valid.
We were talking about the material the comedians used, not the host. What the hell does that matter? [/quote]
Gee, the HOST on most comedy shows is also a comedian who tells jokes during the show. The fact that he was doing this for YEARS on that show and his material very often made fun of the very audience he was speaking to disproves that white comedians can’t tell jokes about black people.
[quote]
If a bunch of white comedians were saying hateful things about blacks would you care if the host was black? [/quote]
Hateful? Since when did this discussion become about saying HATEFUL things in comedy? Something truly hateful shouldn’t be getting a laugh out of anyone.
[quote]
BTW- The stuff on BET is funny, and I have never had a problem with it.
I watch a little BET, but most of it doesn’t appeal to me. The comedy is about all I do watch. Never really noticed the host was white… guess I must be slipping. “People like me” should be more aware of that kind of thing. Thanks for the label. Try not to bitch too much when someone puts one on you.[/quote]
You didn’t put one on me. You tried and failed.
[quote]Jordan Bell wrote:
Exactly…white Americans are held to a higher standard…(whites in general are…)…Look at the genocide going on in the Sudan (Arabs killing Black Africans)…if that were regular white folks killing Black Sudanese, you’d see protests at every friggin’ liberal-filled university in the country…but since it ain’t white folks doing the killing…then it ain’t so bad. [/quote]
That and those being killed are largely Christian.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
The germans could not revolt because of the the fact that the SA and later the SS put down all resistance to the nazi party, quickly and deadly. Hitler assured total control of Germany by destroying internal reistance…Third, if you dont mind me saying so, you didn’t see a lot of jews fighting back. with all do respect, a trigger can be pulled by someone of any race, and a club can be swung by anyone as well. [/quote]
Hard to fight back when the government took away the civilians’ rights to keep and bear arms. An unarmed citizenry is a herd of cattle to be slaughtered. This is the perfect example of why the 2nd Amendment is so important. I know, it’s off topic, but keep in mind for the next 2nd Amendment thread.
[quote]Josie wrote:
You are a dork! Jesus wasn’t black he was Jewish, from the line of David. So he probably looks very Middle Eastern.
He could have been both. Jews in that time period came in all colors, from redheaded or blond to dark. Jews did not look cohesively Middle Eastern.[/quote]
How do you know this? I would imagine 2000 years ago the Jewish people were a much more uniform group than they are today.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
RaZzAtroX wrote:
swivel wrote:
Ryu13 wrote:
But all of the white(europeans, not americans) who did that are long dead or old and rotting…
i have benefits in this country only because i’m white. wouldn’t have happened without all the work those dead guys did.
name one
Name one? It ain’t that hard.
If your old man grew up in the 50s or 60s, there were still schools that only allowed whites in.
Let’s say he got into a law school, but it only accepted whites back then. So he becomes a lawyer, and then because of his stature, has enough money to buy a house in the suburbs and pay for you to go to college. So now, you start off with no debt and no worries, because everything was payed for by your lawyer father who got into that school because they didn’t accept blacks back then. See the lines there? It’s all connected.
This is, of course, a lot different than being a black kid in the city who has no father, no money, and no hope.
You should be sorry for requesting logic, because apparently you have no fucking idea what that means.[/quote]
What about a poor white kid from the city with an addict for a father and mother who abandons him? Or a fatherless white kid from a rural area?
Your “benefits” you cite may be your “benefits” of being white, but they are not the standard.
ProX I’m sure has an interesting story of how he became a successful military officer and doctor. And I am sure he didn’t do it by sitting around bitching about how he was disenfranchised by his ancestors’ oppression.
Calling me a white boy to my face will definitely get your ass kicked, regardless of your color. Doing it anonymously on the internet is just chicken-shit.
Lastly, there is plenty of racism in America. But it goes in every direction. I don’t often give credit to Hollywood, but I thought CRASH was a great and honest movie.
I (being Caucasion) have been on the receiving end of racism, especially in the military. When you are a white Private, and a Sergeant is black, I guarantee you, you can easily be the target of racism. And the institution is less sensitive to it. There is also a problem with organized racism, Masonic groups, who restrict membership to a certain race.
There is no excuse for any of it, regardless of your ancestors adversity. If you hurt someone because of race, deny them employment based on race, or deny them business because of race, or even have a shitty internal attitude about them because of race, you are a piece of crap, whether your white, black, brown, red, yellow, whatever.
Stop making excuses for your own failures, admit them, and overcome them.
And I hope Condy runs for president, cause I’ll vote for her in a heartbeat.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m not talking about other cultures. I’m talking about America’s race problems right here, right now.
Whites were the slaveowners, blacks were the slaves. Slavery is as old as human history, of course, but the divide in America was along color lines, and this has not died.
Dude, you need to open a history book once in a while and stop showing your ignorance. Whites were not the only race who owned slaves. There were also black slave owners as well. Look it up!
It is this kind of random accusation that causes so much racial shit in the fist place.
The PC version of life, as you spit it out, means that there always has to be one person or race to blame for everything, while all the other races are blameless. This kind of thinking is one reason that racism continues.
Accept the fact that racism is NOT a White problem. It is a problem for all races and more than one race was responsible for supporting slavery. Get a clue!
The way some of you act, you would swear the entire Civil Rights movement was a figment of our collective imaginations. Perhaps you should get a clue.[/quote]
“Some of you”? You make apparent your own Afro-centric point of view and the limitations of it. I though you were a little more open minded. That comment makes you seem more militant.
That statement has as much place here as a statment like “The way some of you act, you would swear the entire culture of violence in inner city neighborhoods is a figment of our collective imagination”
That, and it does nothing to reply to Lorisco’s point, which seemed to be there is a cross-cultural, universality of racism of varying degrees in America. Your response is simply a weak Red Herring.
You can do better ProX.
[quote]Patrick Williams wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m not talking about other cultures. I’m talking about America’s race problems right here, right now.
Whites were the slaveowners, blacks were the slaves. Slavery is as old as human history, of course, but the divide in America was along color lines, and this has not died.
Dude, you need to open a history book once in a while and stop showing your ignorance. Whites were not the only race who owned slaves. There were also black slave owners as well. Look it up!
It is this kind of random accusation that causes so much racial shit in the fist place.
The PC version of life, as you spit it out, means that there always has to be one person or race to blame for everything, while all the other races are blameless. This kind of thinking is one reason that racism continues.
Accept the fact that racism is NOT a White problem. It is a problem for all races and more than one race was responsible for supporting slavery. Get a clue!
The way some of you act, you would swear the entire Civil Rights movement was a figment of our collective imaginations. Perhaps you should get a clue.
“Some of you”? You make apparent your own Afro-centric point of view and the limitations of it. I though you were a little more open minded. That comment makes you seem more militant. Consider
That statement has as much place here as a statment like “The way some of you act, the entire culture of violence in inner city neighborhoods is a figment of our collective imagination”
That, and it does nothing to reply to Lorisco’s point, which seemed to be there is a cross-cultural, universality of racism of verying degrees in America. Your response is simply a weak Red Herring.
You can do better ProX.
[/quote]
I did just fine. Here in America, Whites as a whole have not been the on the receiving end of deeply established racism that affected income, lifestyle and negatively affected progress. To deny this, pretend as if this isn’t the case, or that this wouldn’t have deep seated long lasting effects is utterly ridiculous. IN THIS COUNTRY, slaveowners were largely white. We can find exception to this rule all over, however, the majority of established segregation that surrounded that massive event were coming from one direction in majority…not from all over the world and not from all races equally. If it helps you or anyone else sleep better at night to pretend as if “everyone was at fault equally”, I can only hope you took your ZMA.
There seem to be two sides to this argument. One side is pissed off or apologetic about racism and the other is pissed off about the accusations that are made. We’re both missing some basic facts about human nature. This is basic ethical economics.
First and foremost, all human activities are for the benefit of the person that does them. Secondly, humans will do all in their power to gain marginal self-benefit greater than percieved negative reciprocity.
This is the same for blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, racists, apologists, politicians, preachers, drug-dealers etc… You have to look at indivudual acts from an indivudual perspective, not as a faceless movement. If I don’t date Lituanian women, it’s for my own damn reason and nobody can tell me I’m wrong. The point is that there is no ‘hate conspiracy’ of all the white people against all the black people. Slave owners had slaves simply for profit and people today in this country are still doing the same thing, but instead its 8 million illegal hispanic immigrants treated the same way that black slaves were. Furthermore, apologetic ringleaders like Ted Kennedy just keep getting richer and richer by extorting money out of ‘contributors’ by threatening to blacklist them. Notice that nobody says anything in Congress about the deplorable treatment of illegals. I wonder if that’s because the agriculture unions are primary contributors to liberal coffers? Once again, pure unadulterated profit/power motive. The fact is that regardless of all the talk, which costs nothing by the way, everybody is always going to be out for their own ass first. Illegal immigrant labor makes the things you buy a hell of a lot cheaper. Are you going to stuff an envelope with c-notes and send it to a random mexican address? Am I going to pay reparations because my great great grandfather was a slaveowner (actually not; most of his family died on the Irish ‘Coffin Ships’ in transit to indentured servitude on the railroad but whatever you can blame me anyway)? Yeah, right, you first. These things are just facts of the world we live in. The only thing any one of us can do is work toward our own profit and advancement of a civilized economy by creating profitable business with ethics built right in. Pop quiz. Who ended slavery? Abe Lincoln? Hardly. Cyrus McCormick invented the mechanical reaper. Similar inventions followed, and slavery became obsolete. Today the primary class divisor is the elite college. I know because I went to one. I would consider it my greatest dream accomplishment to create a free and open education technology that would put Harvard out of business.
If you have a problem with the world, you have a choice to either bitch about it and accomplish nothing but violent tempers, or do something constructive to give us a better solution.
Alright, so that was a lot of non-sequitur junk mashed together, but of course, I’m not writing for the “New Yorker” here, so you get what you paid for.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I did just fine. Here in America, Whites as a whole have not been the on the receiving end of deeply established racism that affected income, lifestyle and negatively affected progress. To deny this, pretend as if this isn’t the case, or that this wouldn’t have deep seated long lasting effects is utterly ridiculous. IN THIS COUNTRY, slaveowners were largely white. We can find exception to this rule all over, however, the majority of established segregation that surrounded that massive event were coming from one direction in majority…not from all over the world and not from all races equally. If it helps you or anyone else sleep better at night to pretend as if “everyone was at fault equally”, I can only hope you took your ZMA.[/quote]
I never said “everyone was at fault equally” during the slave times in the US. Once, again, you resort to Red Herrings and strawmen to try to make your point.
I am talking about here and now. There is racism accross all races in the US now.
And about long-lasting effects, those effects are being perpetuated and worsened by the adoption of a culture of unmarried mothers dependant of government aid, drugs, and violence. This is not just a black issue, but my observation is that it is a worse issue for black Americans on a whole than overt racism you seem to think is so pervasive. Bill Cosby has some great ideas on this, but he is largely shunned by blacks because of this.
So I ask again, at what point will this turn around? When do you stop blaming it on slavery? When will parents start to fulfill their obligation to children , of any race, in America?
I treat all people with respect, unless, as an individual, their behavior has shown me they don’t deserve it. What else should I do, in your opinion?
You like to bitch and gripe and point out how you think other peoples’ ideas are wrong, but you don’t offer shit back for ideas. That sounds like a PMS’ing bitch to me.
Put up or shut up.
And, BTW, I work hard enough to sleep very well,thanks for the ingenuine concern.
[quote]Patrick Williams wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I did just fine. Here in America, Whites as a whole have not been the on the receiving end of deeply established racism that affected income, lifestyle and negatively affected progress. To deny this, pretend as if this isn’t the case, or that this wouldn’t have deep seated long lasting effects is utterly ridiculous. IN THIS COUNTRY, slaveowners were largely white. We can find exception to this rule all over, however, the majority of established segregation that surrounded that massive event were coming from one direction in majority…not from all over the world and not from all races equally. If it helps you or anyone else sleep better at night to pretend as if “everyone was at fault equally”, I can only hope you took your ZMA.
I never said “everyone was at fault equally” during the slave times in the US. Once, again, you resort to Red Herrings and strawmen to try to make your point.
I am talking about here and now. There is racism accross all races in the US now. [/quote]
Then you are creating strawmen (a word used way too often around here) because you chastised me for my response to another poster whose post WAS about slavery, dumbass. Now it is about “here and now”? Here and now is based on the past. We didn’t time warp into today with the ability to ignore the past.
You should work harder at staying on topic. Apparently, you felt the need to jump into an argument and you can’t even argue the points presented. Good work, Opie.
One of the problems with moving forward is the many still feeling the effects that half of the population in this country want to pretend don’t matter or don’t exist. You can’t avoid acknowledging the past, the effects it has on today, and then claim you simply want to move forward. Until you are even willing to see another point of view instead of sweep it under the carpet, there will be no forward motion.
That doesn’t mean that I claim to have the answer to how this should be done. However, I do know what shouldn’t be done and that is forgetting the past that led us here.
You know what, call me a white boy, and I’ll tell you “wow, thanks for noticing”. I don’t give a fuck. Yes I’m white, I was born white, and I’ll die white. I don’t see calling me what I am a bad thing. Sorry. It’s like calling me a southerner. Yup, I’m that too, so what. I aint about to start a war because I was called what I obviously am. Am I crazy?
[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
You know what, call me a white boy, and I’ll tell you “wow, thanks for noticing”. I don’t give a fuck. Yes I’m white, I was born white, and I’ll die white. I don’t see calling me what I am a bad thing. Sorry. It’s like calling me a southerner. Yup, I’m that too, so what. I aint about to start a war because I was called what I obviously am. Am I crazy?[/quote]
I can’t believe anyone else is making a large deal of it or can’t understand why there are double standards in this country. Unless someone is literally speaking down to you, the post that started this thread makes little sense.
[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
You know what, call me a white boy, and I’ll tell you “wow, thanks for noticing”. I don’t give a fuck. Yes I’m white, I was born white, and I’ll die white. I don’t see calling me what I am a bad thing. Sorry. It’s like calling me a southerner. Yup, I’m that too, so what. I aint about to start a war because I was called what I obviously am. Am I crazy?[/quote]
No you ain’t crazy.
I’ve been called “Haole Boy” and “White Boy” by many people. In most cases it was a sign of affection.
Hell my wife even calls me “White Boy” on occasion…it’s usally during sex so I don’t complain.
Exactly, Big, Prof., Dirty Tiger, you guys are right on. When black folks use the word “nigger,” it’s usually shortened to “nigga,” and is a term of brotherhood and affection(but not always).
I see white dudes and Mexicans say it all the time. Throw in the “R” and it usually takes on a different connotation, as well as whatever is said along with it. That is the one caveat many people tned to ignore when addressing the double-standard. Nobody with any sense gets angry when being referred to as “Black.” That makes as much sense as me getting mad over being referred to as “bald.” White boy is not always a derogatory term. I jokingly use it all the time. But, me and my circle aren’t all high-strung over that stuff.
[quote]Kratos wrote:
Exactly, Big, Prof., Dirty Tiger, you guys are right on. When black folks use the word “nigger,” it’s usually shortened to “nigga,” and is a term of brotherhood and affection(but not always).
I see white dudes and Mexicans say it all the time. Throw in the “R” and it usually takes on a different connotation, as well as whatever is said along with it. That is the one caveat many people tned to ignore when addressing the double-standard. Nobody with any sense gets angry when being referred to as “Black.” That makes as much sense as me getting mad over being referred to as “bald.” White boy is not always a derogatory term. I jokingly use it all the time. But, me and my circle aren’t all high-strung over that stuff. [/quote]
And “Honky” doesn’t even sound offensive, only funny when you can say it like George Jefferson. Honky lol good show.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Good work, Opie.[/quote]
Opie, what is Opie? oh, yeah, it’s a racial epithet against white guys last time I heard it used. Racial slurs are wrong across the board, regardless of what you may think. Use of that language is dividing and counterproductive to the progress of race relations. I figured a liberal like you could appreciate progress.
[quote]One of the problems with moving forward is the many still feeling the effects that half of the population in this country want to pretend don’t matter or don’t exist. You can’t avoid acknowledging the past, the effects it has on today, and then claim you simply want to move forward. Until you are even willing to see another point of view instead of sweep it under the carpet, there will be no forward motion.
That doesn’t mean that I claim to have the answer to how this should be done. However, I do know what shouldn’t be done and that is forgetting the past that led us here.[/quote]
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS OFF THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF THE THREAD. Who is saying forget the past? No reasonable person, white or black would advocate that. I will give you a chance to make your point, if you want to take it, even though it’s off-topic from the original thread.
How does an ancestral history of ennslavement, removed by 6-7 generations, cause a young inner city black person to have children without means to support them or sell drugs or participate in gang violence or drop out of school or any of the other urban problems our nation has?
Does the anger about injustice perpetrated against your ancestors entitle them to a life of self destruction?
I don’t want to see these or any kids fail in life. But at what point do you admit the past cannot be changed, being angry about it won’t change it, and ultimately, it is up to the individual with the support of the community to grow and mature out of this state of self-destruction?
Why does much of the black pop culture seem to centered around violence, drugs, un-cared for babies, etc?
So, once again, I am hoping you can develop some answers instead of just sharpshooting everyone else on their ideas. If you are honest about your credentials, you should be able to address some of this. I really do have an open mind about your response.
[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
You know what, call me a white boy, and I’ll tell you “wow, thanks for noticing”. I don’t give a fuck. Yes I’m white, I was born white, and I’ll die white. I don’t see calling me what I am a bad thing. Sorry. It’s like calling me a southerner. Yup, I’m that too, so what. I aint about to start a war because I was called what I obviously am. Am I crazy?[/quote]
I am white as hell. Thankfully my kids get tan due to my wife.
[quote]Patrick Williams wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Good work, Opie.
Opie, what is Opie? oh, yeah, it’s a racial epithet against white guys last time I heard it used. [/quote]
Or, Beaver, it can be used to describe someone extremely naive.
How does having a father who is president allow a kid to attend the same schools his father did and follow in his footsteps? The fact that you even ask that question and see no correlation yourself is scary…or sad, one of the two.
[quote]
Does the anger about injustice perpetrated against your ancestors entitle them to a life of self destruction?[/quote]
Excuse me? There is a huge difference between acknowledging that many problems in the past are cyclic leading to the same problems we have today, and acting as if individuals should be void of taking any responsibility for their own lives. Life isn’t simply black and white…despite your own perspective.
Most pop culture today is infested by wannabes. Had you mentioned the Hip Hop culture of the 80’s or 90’s, perhaps you would have a valid point because the music described what was seen on a daily basis. Music today is simply about what sells and has very little social conscience outside of some new soul and underground.
Yes, Beaver, your post has been answered. Have a great day and tell Wally I said “wussup”.