In some recent conversations I’ve seen two schools of thought on set/reps. The first camp feels that the work sets are the first 1-2 and the other camp feels that the later sets are the work sets. After proper warm up of course. I see the reasoning in both, depending on the goal.
With this in mind, if you were doing something like a 3x8, when would you add weight to the bar? When the first set reaches 8 or the all sets reach 8?
As an example, yesterday I reached 8,8,6 for my bench using the same weight for all sets. Set one had one, maybe two left in the tank. Set two was pretty much 8 and no more. Set three was done at 6 and no more.
Would YOU bump it up 5 lbs for the next workout or wait till set three is up to 8?
It really depends on the style of training that you’re doing. If you’re doing an exact set/rep scheme (like 3x8) then you probably don’t want to bump up the weight until you can get the prescribed number of reps on the last set. If you’re doing an HIT program (1 set/extended set to failure), then obviously once you hit the prescribed rep range you increase the weight.
Personally the program I’m currently doing involves only 1 extended set to failure (not something that I would suggest beginners following). And as long as I reach my desired rep range then I increase the weight the next time I do that exercise (though the amount I increase will depend on where in my rep range I reach).
I personally feel that muscle growth is the response to the demand you put on that muscle group to get stronger.
So I ALWAYS want to bump up the weight. haha
However, if my muscles can handle a certain weight for reps in one work set, I don’t believe cutting into my recovery time with multiple sets of that is really going to cause more growth.
I would rather give myself another opportunity to go up in WEIGHT again, and hopefully sooner, by working up to only one work set of my heaviest weight and go to total failure with that and then be done with it.
In simpler terms, I just follow the philosophy that if this muscle group can already lift 100lbs for enough reps in one set, it isn’t going to grow until I can make it lift 115lbs for those reps. Another set with the same weight wouldn’t be introducing anything new except fatigue.
In simpler terms, I just follow the philosophy that if this muscle group can already lift 100lbs for enough reps in one set, it isn’t going to grow until I can make it lift 115lbs for those reps. Another set with the same weight wouldn’t be introducing anything new except fatigue.[/quote]
I can see what you’re saying but another set (or sets) with the same weight would be adding volume. It’s just a different way to train, either all-out to failure each set or multiple sets of a certain number of reps ideally reaching failure on the last rep of the last set.
I used to try and attain failure at every set, but currently I’m doing multiple sets with the same weight and failing on the very last rep of the final set. I add a small amount of weight to all the sets each week i.e Week 1: 50k 4 x 8 Week 2: 52k 4 x 8. So far this has been working for me and I’ve been getting stronger and gaining weight.
OP: It depends on how you want to train, I would pick one method of increasing and stick with it for 6-8 weeks and then try the other method. See which works best for you. Try not too adjust too many variables at the same time, that way you’ll know what is working and what isn’t.
[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
As an example, yesterday I reached 8,8,6 for my bench using the same weight for all sets. Set one had one, maybe two left in the tank. Set two was pretty much 8 and no more. Set three was done at 6 and no more.
Would YOU bump it up 5 lbs for the next workout or wait till set three is up to 8?
Thanks in advance. [/quote]
Yes I definitely would add weight at that point.
I go by exertion level. If it’s anything less than 5/5 to complete my lifts, I think about adding weight or decreasing rest.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
TRAJJ wrote:
As an example, yesterday I reached 8,8,6 for my bench using the same weight for all sets. Set one had one, maybe two left in the tank. Set two was pretty much 8 and no more. Set three was done at 6 and no more.
Would YOU bump it up 5 lbs for the next workout or wait till set three is up to 8?
Thanks in advance.
Yes I definitely would add weight at that point.
I go by exertion level. If it’s anything less than 5/5 to complete my lifts, I think about adding weight or decreasing rest. [/quote]
I would tend to agree with you. If it were 8,8,1 then I’d think it better to continue with the same weight. But an 8,8,6 is pretty close and I would think a small increase in weight, say 5 lbs, over all three sets would be more beneficial than staying with the same weight when within 2 or 3 of the overall goal.
A range of acceptable reps is superior in my mind, multiple work sets or not. 6-10, 10-12, or whatever you choose. If all reps fall in the range or above it, bump up the weight. If you choose 6-10 and get 8 6 5, stay with that one more session maybe. Having one number in mind only causes someone to take it easy on the first set or so to fit the “mold”. If you want to do multiple work sets make them WORK sets and not relax once you get to your magic number. Let the weight and your exertion that day dictate how many you do after you are warmed up.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
A range of acceptable reps is superior in my mind, multiple work sets or not. 6-10, 10-12, or whatever you choose. If all reps fall in the range or above it, bump up the weight. If you choose 6-10 and get 8 6 5, stay with that one more session maybe. Having one number in mind only causes someone to take it easy on the first set or so to fit the “mold”. If you want to do multiple work sets make them WORK sets and not relax once you get to your magic number. Let the weight and your exertion that day dictate how many you do after you are warmed up. [/quote]
Thanks Scott, I understand where your coming from. What I’m doing at the present is just a bit different than what I’ve done the last year. Instead of doing lots of sets with low reps and high weight I’m doing what I suppose would be considered a periodization plan. Since I was doing a 5x5 and an 8x3 over the last year, with good strength results and also some size I changed it up dramatically.
I started with a 4x6 for 4 weeks. I’m in the second ‘cycle’ now which is 3x8. I’ll increase every 4 weeks up the scale to a 3x10, 3x12 and finally a 3x15. that will carry me through till next March. So far, in just 5 weeks I’ve seen some positive physical changes which is of course, good motivation. After this 5 month cycle is completed I’ll see how everything went and plan accordingly.
If it has gone well, I plan to ‘undulate’ the rep scheme up and down every week for a couple of months. If that works well, I’ll ‘undulate’ the rep scheme up and down every workout during the week. Again, this is if I see/feel it is working. I’d like to at least complete the first 5 month cycle and see where I’m at.
During this plan I’ve done both TBT and split training. The first phase was mainly a 3-day split. This cycle I’m doing TBT which I feel is giving me a better overall workout. I’m also incorporating some ‘advanced’ training here and there. For example, the last set of bench I may also throw in a set of high rep flys and cable crosses for the pump. Sort of a ‘tri set’ format with low or no rest periods. That sort of thing here and there which is working well.
Anyway, I like to at least have a loose plan for goal setting purposes. So far so good. I did add 5 lbs today to the bench and was able to complete a full 8,8,8 so I felt pretty good about it.
As soon as I see the word undulate my brain goes stupid and I can’t read, but I did see you say something about progress so that’s all that matters haha.
If I had your wife looking at me with my shirt off I’d be happy too I get a little preachy(trying not to anymore) with what I feel works best for most, as long as what you are doing makes you happy and gives you results that’s all anybody can hope for.
I’d agree with Scott in that I don’t like complicating training any more than it needs to be. But, if you are getting results, stick with what’s working for you.
On that note though I have a question for you.
[quote]TRAJJ wrote:
Thanks Scott, I understand where your coming from. What I’m doing at the present is just a bit different than what I’ve done the last year. Instead of doing lots of sets with low reps and high weight I’m doing what I suppose would be considered a periodization plan. Since I was doing a 5x5 and an 8x3 over the last year, with good strength results and also some size I changed it up dramatically.
[/quote]
Can I ask why you decided to do something different than what you’ve done the last year? It seems like from what you wrote above doing a 5x5 and an 8x3 were giving you good results. Why would you stop doing something that was working?
Did your goals change? Did the program stop working? Did your work or personal life force you to change your schedule?
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I’d agree with Scott in that I don’t like complicating training any more than it needs to be. But, if you are getting results, stick with what’s working for you.
On that note though I have a question for you.
TRAJJ wrote:
Thanks Scott, I understand where your coming from. What I’m doing at the present is just a bit different than what I’ve done the last year. Instead of doing lots of sets with low reps and high weight I’m doing what I suppose would be considered a periodization plan. Since I was doing a 5x5 and an 8x3 over the last year, with good strength results and also some size I changed it up dramatically.
Can I ask why you decided to do something different than what you’ve done the last year? It seems like from what you wrote above doing a 5x5 and an 8x3 were giving you good results. Why would you stop doing something that was working?
Did your goals change? Did the program stop working? Did your work or personal life force you to change your schedule?[/quote]
Sentoguy, good question and thank you for asking.
The 5x5 and 8x3 was working very well for me. It allowed me to gain more strength than when I was lifting back in my twenties and early thirties. Basically I’m 42 now and can bench more than when I was 22. The overall theme was the same for my entire body and I was able to put on some much needed inches in all the right spots. I attribute these gains to this site and the advice/comments of the authors and members here. A LOT of what I was doing in my 20’s and 30’s was wrong or not the best. This site corrected quite a bit in how I train and now I can see tangible results.
Having said that, after this first year of really being back into it seriously and getting nice gains I felt somewhat burned out with the high sets, heavy weight and low reps. Just felt like my body needed some type of change. My overall size has increased, but I also wanted to see more in the area of definition. So far on this new program I’m starting to see this. One of the programs in a book I purchased [The Encyclopedia of Muscle and Strength] looked like it might fit the bill so to speak. It is a one year total program broken down into blocks of 5 months, 2 months and 5 months with recover weeks built into it. Basically as I described above it started with reps in the 6 range and increases by two or three reps every four weeks up to reps of 15. Since I was used to reps in the 3-5 range, this looked like a good way to change things up.
Whether or not I complete the full year as described will depend on the results I’m seeing and how I feel after the first 5 month section. I’m not engraving anything in stone, but do like to have some sort of game plan.
So the short answer would be I felt I needed a change up and wanted to work on a bit more ‘muscularity’.
The 5x5 and 8x3 was working very well for me. It allowed me to gain more strength than when I was lifting back in my twenties and early thirties. Basically I’m 42 now and can bench more than when I was 22. The overall theme was the same for my entire body and I was able to put on some much needed inches in all the right spots. I attribute these gains to this site and the advice/comments of the authors and members here. A LOT of what I was doing in my 20’s and 30’s was wrong or not the best. This site corrected quite a bit in how I train and now I can see tangible results.
Having said that, after this first year of really being back into it seriously and getting nice gains I felt somewhat burned out with the high sets, heavy weight and low reps. Just felt like my body needed some type of change. My overall size has increased, but I also wanted to see more in the area of definition. So far on this new program I’m starting to see this. One of the programs in a book I purchased [The Encyclopedia of Muscle and Strength] looked like it might fit the bill so to speak. It is a one year total program broken down into blocks of 5 months, 2 months and 5 months with recover weeks built into it. Basically as I described above it started with reps in the 6 range and increases by two or three reps every four weeks up to reps of 15. Since I was used to reps in the 3-5 range, this looked like a good way to change things up.
Whether or not I complete the full year as described will depend on the results I’m seeing and how I feel after the first 5 month section. I’m not engraving anything in stone, but do like to have some sort of game plan.
So the short answer would be I felt I needed a change up and wanted to work on a bit more ‘muscularity’.
I get a little preachy(trying not to anymore) with what I feel works best for most, as long as what you are doing makes you happy and gives you results that’s all anybody can hope for.