We all mixed with tobacco.
Thank you for the very elaborate reply!
It actually is my fault. Music plays a large role within my life, I spend many hours per day listening to music (probably approaching 4-6 hours per day, even when I work… manual Labour… I’m typically listening to music), and thus I love attending these concerts, music festivals, venues etc. I find friends that also like going to these festivals. These festivals are associated with drug use (both licit and illicit)
Now, MOST kids here get absolutely blind drink with fair regularity, it’s considered a right of passage into Australian adulthood for whatever reason… that’s just an across the cohort type thing. Even the straight laced, “like minded” teens typically view getting smashed out of you’re mind to be okay, and not in the realm of innapropriate behavior. However the MDMA (which statistically only about one third to one fourth of Australian teens have used) isn’t quite as common, and is more typically associated with music festivals
I should say, my CLOSE friend group, whilst not responsible, don’t do these things with regularity (I don’t drink much, perhaps I’ve had five beers over the past five months, I was going to drink during graduation celebration but was on dbol so… no way… no extra hepatotoxicity/cardiotoxicity for me thank youuuu), it’s more an exception to the norm for them (drinking/weed being the norm), the other stuff would fall within the realm of occasional experimentation. Some other “friends” I have (more like aquantinces as I’m not particularly close) are into harder drugs like coke, opiates etc with regularity, however these aren’t the type of friends that come over to my house to hang out, these are the kids I’ll bump into at a party, on the street or whatever and be like “hey bro, what’s happening… good to see you etc.” so we’re friendly/on good terms and know one another, but we don’t typically hang out.
Finally I should reiterate as I’ve said this before. Intellect isn’t nesecarrily correlated with responsibility, many are shocked to learn about the situations I’ve been in, however there’s still a teenage side to unreal24278, as after all… I am a teenager. The difference is I tend to make a calculated judgement in relation to risks/rewards of my decisions and potential consequences before I do something… this is something many kids don’t do beforehand, and simply they act on impulsivity.
Granted there are exceptions for me, if the prospect of getting some action gets in the way I can (unfortunately) become incredibly irresponsible.
Interestingly I do believe my dispensed advice has reduce some of the risky decisions my friends make. Most kids don’t want to be told what to do/not to do from adults, as it typically appears (and given the way adults tend to talk to us) as we are being talked down too, and fair enough… with newfound adulthood many of us think we’re king shit. However when the advice is dispensed by me… another teenager who understands what/why they’re doing whatever they are doing, the cohort listening to me seems to take such advice more seriously, and they may even ask follow up questions or come for more advice later on… this is assuming I don’t use very complicated terminology, as I’ve learnt this can put people off/make people think I’m a smartass, which isn’t true… I just don’t want people to die needlessly
It’s also not hard to be exposed to drugs even without being associated with friends who use drugs… go to a nightclub, go to the bathroom, you’ll see people snorting coke… go to any music festival, you’ll see tons of people using MDMA before going in. At the music festival you’ll see people under the influence, and if you have to go to the first aid tent (I had to after getting jumped) you’ll see people overdosing
I just yesterday had a tweaker (meth addict) try start with me, anecdotal experience that is completely unrelated to me being at fault
I don’t think it’s really that big in Ottawa yet. I heard of people using it years ago, but back then all the junkies were smoking crack and now heroin and fentanyl are the big thing.
Crystal meth is terrible here… you’ve got iced out drivers late at night driving erratically… not slowing down for anything
Iced out guys getting all aggro with everyone either during a binge or while withdrawing (was once at the edge of a Nando’s and let a meth-head take my food because… well getting into a fight or potentially stabbed didn’t seem like a good idea)
Yesterday I was sitting in a public place tapping my leg (adhd) and this tweaker sitting next to me looks at me and shouts (I’m listening to music) “WOULD YOU STOP FUCKING TAPPING YOURE LEG”… whilst he violently taps his leg and shakes… I say “sure thing, sorry mate”, desperately trying to stifle a giggle
Methampetamine def has a significant detrimental effect in relation to society as a whole, people like this aren’t particularly safe to be around… they are legitimately a danger to society if they’re willing to start with random people like this for no good reason… granted not all meth addicts are like this, it does appear (particularly crystal meth… the popular type here… called shards) to make people somewhat aggressive… it’s also one of the more neurotoxic substances one can take, prolonged use will irreversibly fuck one up. And given how reinforcing/addictive it is, prolonged use is fairly likely if you’re using meth
Then there’s GHB, but that’s not as much of an issue anymore (the king punch epidemic in Aus was largely fueled by kids on GHB)
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I think everyone should have some mild experience with MDMA and LSD. Barring anything bad happening, like a bad trip, i think it is a transformational experience.
My cousin is a super crazy programmer in the Valley and he says everyone there, managers and upper tech people especially, are microdosing LSD
believe that.
LSD and MDMA are two different animals entirely. Whilst LSD acts directly, mdma acts through an indirect mechanism wrecking havoc on the neurons involved. Especially serotonergic neurons get drestroyed by it which is not reversible. I’d advice for lsd and against mdma if someone wants to have a transcendent experience. It’s safer, the dose is a thousand times smaller, it’s nearly impossible to detect it and you can’t overdose (you can if you count the bad trip but not overdose in the sense that you’d die).
@unreal24278
Where I’m from tablets of MDMA are 150 mg, two of that would kill you. I hope everybody experimenting with it is aware of that.
Update 2023: MDMA has been shown to not be neurotoxic. It would still not be my drug of choice, but that one was based on bad science.
Serotonergic neurotoxicity regarding MDMA is a hotly debated topic. The only models we have to back up this particular phenomenon is via laboratory models (so mice etc)
Within human models it appears that whilst recent MDMA use does induce cognitive deficits, abnormalities regarding serotonin expression etc following prolonged, repeated usage (which for a compound like this isn’t the norm), it does appear cognitive deficits in relation to human counterparts are reversible following occasional exposure
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2010.03252.x
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again… PURE MDMA when taken at reasonable dosages isn’t particularly life threatening… however many take god knows what (as the pills are typically cut with other, more dangeous substances) and otherwise take too much… i’ve never used the substance however I don’t see why people couldn’t stick with say… 100mg, after a certain point you aren’t particularly adding anything new, you’re just driving up you’re pulse, blood pressure and body temp up to potentially fatal levels.
As to the narrow window of recreation, I’m not particularly sure about that… whilst reactions do differ based on environment (say in a hot, dancing environment you’re more likely to drop. The LD50 of MDMA is generally hypothesized to be around 20mg/kg for humans, though some guesstimates say as low as 10mg/kg for prone cohorts. Those hypersensitive too stims, who have pre existing ailments (such as prior hypertension) are far more at risk. Serotonin syndrome is also a risk one doesn’t typically talk about with this compound… and using with say an SSRI like some kids unknowingly do is probably a really bad idea
I don’t believe this at all. I believe it’s entirley up to personal preference. There’s NO reason to think everyone would benefit from taking recreational drugs… if anything it’s the opposite that’s true.
Look up 5ht2b receptor mediated cardiotoxicity, this is likely present with psychedelics and IS a present with MDMA. It’s been documented that frequent, prolonged use of MDMA (I think it was 3-5 days per week over a number of years) induced valvular heart disease within a large portion of a young cohort (granted there are other mechanisms at which MDMA induces cardiotoxicity). Psychedelics are probably somewhat toxic to the cardiovascular system within this regard, so whilst occasional use doesn’t matter all that much in terms of cardiovascular health… daily microdosing may pose serious issues in the long term. Furthermore we have little to no data in relation to the neurological complications of psychedelics… I’d tread very carefully in relation to continual use
All drugs carry risks… some more than others (hence the terminology soft/hard drugs), I wouldn’t ever ‘recommend’ anyone consumes psychoactive compounds in a recreational fashion as doing so has the potential for harm and is thus irresponsible
Sooooooo… did we ever find out the answer to the original post?
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What do you consider as soft drugs? Weed/“cannabis”? Anything else? Just wondering.
If you have hypogonadism or some other condition causing low T. Or you just don’t give a fuck about life.
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Or if you have a legitimate chance of going pro and making millions of dollars.
Oh yeah that too.
The only issue with that line of thinking is that some guys would say they have a good chance and still go nowhere and fuck themselves up.
It sort of falls into the “fuck life” category, all or nothing section.
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Meth was discovered in 1893. Not new, at all. Perhaps in your neighborhood, of course, but it’s cleared out entire towns in the Midwest US for some time now.
I mean new as a drug of choice on the street. I know that people around here take it, but it’s not the biggest thing. Crack used to be the main thing, then “opiods” (herion, fentanyl, and some pills) too over.
Where I used to live (Lowertown, the bad part of downtown Ottawa) in the mornings there were people in orange vest carrying long tongs picking up needles in yards and parking lots, but crack was still the thing. There is all kinds of shit going on, but for whatever reason meth has not reached epidemic status over here.
This is debatable, because lots of kids have this “I don’t give a fuck… I’m so tough, who cares if I die tomorrow” attitude. Such a demeanor is typically a facade/ guard they build up to avoid expressing vulnerability
But instead of actually making them look tough, such a facade just makes them seem like a dumbass
Then you’ve got the kids who ACTUALLY don’t care, these people are typically disturbed (antisocial personality disorder etc)… and you probably want to stay far away from them
You’re a bit too conservative. Taking risks is par for the course and it is why young people can achieve amazing change. That fearless attitude, let’s just do it attitude, is a result of thousands of years of human evolution. After all we would be dying at 30 for a good while there.
It’s probably more common than you think. Just by 30 years old most of them are sitting in prison.
I wouldn’t say I’m too conservative regarding the topic at stake here
In terms of anabolic steroids, recreational (psychoactive) drug use etc, i’d stipulate my beliefs and Ideologies are actually quite progressive (for a reasonably educated person). Despite adknowledging the risks associated with substance use/abuse, I’m still an advocate for individualistic free will, legalization/regulation… nor do I believe one should be penalized if they make their decisions on their own behalf… now, SELLING or pushing drugs, Anabolic steroids and the likes towards a naieve demographic… that’s a different story (I don’t believe it’s an ethical thing to do at all, I judge character by perceived sense of morality rather than decisions one makes regarding personal endeavors)
I’m not against an educated individual making the choice to experiment, I am against pushing an individual towards/reccomending an individual use potentially harmful chemicals. Thinks like anabolics, psychoactive chemicals etc should be a decision made on behalf of the individual indulging… and only the individual indulging. Outward influences may initiate a sense of coercion or peer pressure, in which case said person may be using something they don’t want to and potentially instilling undue harm. Take me and… weed/alcohol for example, the first time I smoked cannabis was ENTIRELY on my terms (as i’m an idiot), there was no external influence, it was more around the likes of “well… I wonder what this feels like… I guess I’ll try it tomorrow”. There are others who are pressured into doing so by a large cohort/greater influence. There is no reasonable grounds to say one should use drugs. Even if say psychedelics induced a life changing experience for you (and I know many who have said this, particularly in relation to dimethyltriptamine), what occurs with you may be vastly different from someone’s elses reaction, as neurology differs from person to person. There are risks associated with psychedelics…
- cardiotoxicity potential from repeated use
- potential neurodegenerative effect
- bad trips
- HPPD
The list continues, an individual should be well aware of these potentially adverse effects before indulging… certain compounds like LSA May produce pronounced vasoconstriction, indicating a risk factor for stroke and/or myocardial infarction for those predisposed. NBOME is immensely straining towards the cardiovascular system (and nowadays much of the “LSD” one buys is NBOME, rather than LSD… psilocybin mushrooms are a safer bet nowadays, but even they aren’t safe, they’ve been implicated within serotonin syndrome (case reports), acute psychosis etc
These side effects may be very rare but they ARE a possibility, just like how SSRI’s have been known to fatally induce serotonin syndrome… cannabis can induce cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, therapeutic doses of Tylenol have been known to induce renal and hepatic failure in those predisposed, MDMA can induce fatal arrhythmia if hyperthermia or dehydration sets in and goes by untreated (electrolyte imbalance)… ruptured vessels in the brain may occur due to hypertensive crisis (dehydration/stimulant induced)… there’s no denying ALL recreational substances carry the prospect of significant risk… both acute and chronic… sure, mdma/lsd isn’t within the ballpark of heroin, or alcohol etc… doesn’t mean that one should say “hey, it’s a good idea to take this”… because the truth it, it’s never a “good” idea… the good idea would be to refrain from all exogenous chemicals, but that’s boring, hence we don’t abide by such a rule
I’m sorry but @flappinit I have to ask this. Have you had cardiac function/markers checked if you’ve used cocaine quite a bit in the past? Whilst the MAJORITY of the time cocaine induced displayed cardiomyopathy (particularly from prolonged tachyarrythmia) is reversible, there have been a few cases of permanent cardiac dysfunction occurring (this is a similar phenomenon to holiday heart syndrome… like when you go on holiday and drink a ton every day, you’ll potentially acutely develop dialated cardiomyopathy, whilst this is inherently reversible, there’s always that very small chance you’ll go into cardiac arrest whilst it’s occurring). This is similar to AAS induced cardiomyopathy, in which cases many of the times simply lowering the dosages can greatly reduce/reverse the condition acquired (according to literature… rodent models stipulate the morphological changes are permenant)… I wonder how many of my friends on schoolies… which is all of them… will acutely develop enlarged hearts? (Schoolies is practically this Australian right of passage thing where all year 12s get together after graduation, it’s funded by adults who knowingly encourage risky teenage behavior… copious recreational drug use, risky, unprotected hookups and alcohol poisoning are MORE than common… I chose not to go and decided on Europe instead because I felt I couldn’t trust myself to be responsible enough and would thus potentially irreparably damage myself or wind up in trouble (being inebriated a lot of the time would dramatically impair my judgement). I’ll almost certainly be partaking in some vastly irresponsible behavior within my Europe trip (as I do during all my holidays), but it’ll pale in comparison to had I gone on schoolies. There’s this album composition i’m doing (as a joke mind you) where I’m taking a photo of me lying face down in an obviously uncomfortable location within every city I visit… so when my friends ask “how was Europe” I’ll jokingly pull up all these photos and be like “THIS IS LONDON” (unreal 24278 face down in a muddy patch somewhere), “THIS IS AMSTERDAM” (unreal24278 face down in the canals despite it being like 2 degrees, it’ll look like I’m drowning in this photo), keep in mind these photographs won’t be taken while I’m under the influence or anything, I just tend to go to extreme lengths for a good joke sometimes
One of my friends going legitimately has a congenital heart defect!!! Isn’t that crazy
permenant cocaine induced cardiomyopathy stems from heavy, frequent use over a long period of time. And I believe you said you partook in binge use, if this was frequent perhaps a cardiac evaluation would be important. People suddenly dropping after say snorting one line (which can happen, even if incredibly unlikely it can certainly happen… make no mistake about that) is usually arrhythmia induced by cocaines effect on sodium channels, calcium handling etc rather than from direct cardiac damage.
Coke also elevates pro inflammatory numerous pro inflammatory cytokines whilst the user is on and contributes to the development of vascular disease. Whilst it’s never been proven, there is a correlation between postmortem examinations of cocaine users (dead from drug use or form any variable… say being hit by a car or something) and coronary atherosclerosis being present, even at young ages. The same can be said for anabolics btw. Should also be said that sustained supraventricular tachycardia (extreme, so say you’re RHR is 230 on coke), over time and time again, the hypoxia induced within the myocardium WILL induce apoptosis and thus myocardial fibrosis as dead cells are replaced with scar tissue, this stiffens the heart, reduces contractanility. This effect isn’t sole to cocaine… alcohol, amphetamines, caffeine (overdose) will all cause this (alcohol and ketamine, whilst depressant substances, increase RHR dramatically). Beta blockers can entirelt reduce this effect according to rodent models (and if the damage is induced by tachycardia this actually makes perfect sense), however there’s the notion of onnoposed alpha stimulation could induce a hypertensive crisis or something… but there’s VEERRRRY few cases of this happening so I don’t buy it at all… also beta blockers won’t block the pro arrhythmic effect or the vasoconstriction, so this wouldn’t particularly be of help with regard to reducing cardiotoxicity aside from reducing complications stemming from a fast HR
Interestingly there doesn’t appear to be that much evidence aside from anecdotes purporting this theory regarding coronary calcification/permenant vascular damage, thus the myocardial infarctions induced are probably not related to atherogenesis (and would be more on-par with myocardial infarcts related to amphetamines/stimulant (including caffeine) abuse, so coronary vasospasm… another interesting thing to know is that cocaine doesn’t appear to be implicated within inducing arterial calcification… this appears to be unique to nicotine (nicotine is a real killer in terms of inducing vascular damage)… Whilst nicotine itself isn’t directly proven to be carcinogenic (rather the chemicals released from combustion of the tobacco shrub and additives put in to increase absorption rate/addictive potential), the incredibly vasoconstrictory nature of nicotine and direct toxic effect on cardiac culture hints at perhaps a direct cardiotoxic effect. LV/RV parameters/dimensions do appear to be altered within cigarette smokers vs non cigarette smokers (so say, tobacco induced cardiomyopathy may be a thing)
Getting an ECG or stress echo would a smart idea though… so… good to know for anyone who likes punching fat darts… it harms far more than merely the respiratory system… potentially, genetic factors play a role and some get off Scott free… my grandma smoked a ton for like 30-40 years+ and is now 95 and very healthy for her age, grandfather smoked profusely and died of a stroke in his 60s… my great uncle (or something) smoked and lived til 101-102… I prey I don’t live that long
One of the studies cited reports a significant decrease in memory function in ex users. And the study itself is very basic, the conclusion drawn could be off in both directions.
Studies done in primates in the 90s as well as newer studies in mice suggest damaging of neurons. I couldn’t find studies suggesting a real conflict on the topic (but I didn’t spend copious amounts of time so I could be wrong). The evidence seems to indicate neurotoxicity.
I guess my point is: why bother with MDMA if LSD is way safer and effective?
Update 2023: MDMA has been shown to not be neurotoxic. It would still not be my drug of choice, but that one was based on bad science.