When Is It OK (If Ever) for a Young Guy to Take PEDs?

Pharma / TRT
21

Apart from the prospect of impurities, if say they’re on par. Note regular (as in daily) cocaine use will probably fuck you up quicker than booze … But, in a one off, infrequent/intermittent scenario… Binge drinking vs using cocaine, I’d say they’re equally risky in terms of both acute and chronic lethality.

Furthermore, cocaine (at least here where I live), is typically cut with amphetamine or baby powder (of which somewhat antagonizes cocaines effect on dopamine transmission), whilst such a combination isnt “safe” its not like you’re taking fentanyl.

Cocaine is a scary, scary compound regardless (at least the prospect of it is to me), I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole.

22

It’s amazing what that Dr in front of your name will do in this situation. Stay on the path you’re on.

23

No, they’re not. You drink too much, you pass out. You clearly have never seen what people get up to when they’re wired on coke or some other stimulant.

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24

Yes… I have, i’ve been around people using cocaine on numerous occasions. I’m not talking about the decisions one makes on cocaine/stimulants, im talking about what it does to you internally from intermittent use in relation to my gauged scale of harm

From alcohol I’ve seen people make equally dumb decisions, and with both cocaine and alcohol, certain people seem to turn into absolute dickheads under the influence

Ive seen people pass out from booze just as I’ve seen people drop unresponsive due to near fatal respiratory depression, requiring immediate medical intervention to stay alive.

Both have the potential to cause you to drop dead. With cocaine it’s typically cardiac related issues, though ethanol has been acutely implicated within inducing acute myocardial infarction in healthy young men without a history of ailment/cardiac disease. Booze on the other hand has the potential to cause you to drop from respiratory depression. Both are fairly easy to overdo if one isn’t careful, however the potential for cardiac damage is higher with cocaine than booze. This is counterbalanced by the prospect of acute renal failure, pronounced respiratory depression, hepatotoxicity etc induced by alcohol

25

I was just teasing, I understand what you mean. I just meant that there was virtually nothing I did at 18 where women weren’t at the forefront of my mind.

As for talking to women, it’s normal to be nervous, or even terrified. It’s because you’re overthinking what you should say, when you should just talk to them like you talk to anyone else. Women can pick up on people pretending quickly, since they deal with guys doing anything and everything to get laid on a daily basis, so you need to just talk to them like they’re anyone else. THAT BEING SAID, I’m not on the spectrum like you, but I WAS awkward and bullied in my early teens and I learned that certain traits (too talkative, argumentative, hyper) need to be toned down. I’m not telling you to pretend to be something you’re not, I’m telling you to give girls a chance to talk, and to realize that your vast amount of knowledge (and you are indeed an incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable person) may, instead of making you seem smart, make them feel dumb or disconnected. It’s a tough system to navigate for those of us who aren’t social butterflies from day 1, but it is certainly feasible to become socially relevant.

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26

This is so relatable, thank you very much. There have been numerous occasions when people have decided to dislike me because they think I’m being a smartass when I’m merely trying to help out

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28

Well clearly I have to go buy some meth now (kidding obviously)

You’re right, without personal experience I can’t accurately quantify the harms of X vs Y, and it will differ from person to person. I’ve never used cocaine, but I have used stimulants (dexamphetamine being the hardest) both off and on script (meaning with and without a legitimate prescription). I dislike them… they make me anxious, aggressive and irritable. I too am hypersensitive to stimulants, to the point wherein I vehermontly dislike even caffeine, depressants however I appear to have a very high threshold for. A very inpressive tolerance to alcohol has seemingly been handed down to my brother and I, granted if I’m to do something stupid I’d opt for almost anything other than booze if possible, as the systemic toxicity of booze and the way it makes me feel the day after isn’t worth one night of fun unless it’s a very special occasion (say holidays overseas, a special celebration of some sort etc)

I’ve had some (as in, I’ve experienced personally through ingestion) terrible experiences with alcohol (mostly when I was very young), never alcohol poisoning per se, but throwing up, slurred speech, making an ass out of myself, dramatically impaired motor coordination etc. I don’t talk about any personal experience I have with alcohol or recreational drug use as I find such subject matter is private and thus I’m not comfortable talking about it on a public forum. I wouldn’t use cocaine, and even if I did (which I wouldn’t as I’m almost certain… aside from the deleterious long term effect… that it’d instill acute stimulant psychosis within me), it wouldn’t be on cycle (which ends in… five days now)… no cocaine for unreal24278 though, not only do I feel the risk/reward ratio from trying it just once is so far out of line that i wouldn’t be able to justify it… I legitimately believe I wouldn’t enjoy it, similarly to how I don’t particularly enjoy other stimulants

The comedown after using stimulants such as amphetamines alone is awful (esp I’d say I’ve used for a few days in preparation for a test), I become immensely pissed off at everything and everyone around me.

Should be noted, a comedown is typically due to sleep deprivation, dopamine and serotonin depletion

29

I think jail time and all that is overrated when it comes to steroids. No one gives a shit about you doing steroids unless you have a warehouse full of the shit and distributing. Those are the fish the enforcement agencies are after

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30

Untrue, if people in the USA can get jail time for possession of one joint in certain states, you bet you’re ass they’ll prosecute for AAS.

The statistics in relation to the sheer number of US citizens that have criminal records is astounding

They might not be looking for you specifically, but if caught you’re FUCKED

31

How many alcoholics do you see prostituting themselves on the street, breaking into cars, robbing people, etc?

32

I think it is okay in the case of hypogonadism. I do know a couple of guys in their low 20s, and have seen their blood work. I would hop on Test (Test is a PED) if my levels were 100 ng/dl, even if I was only 18.

33

This is probably a very appropriate situation in which to do so.

I myself am receiving TRT for hypogonadism, and have since beginning my treatment discovered that I had low testosterone levels already as a teenager (blood panel), but the doctors at the time never explored that venue further, and one conceivable reason that they did not could maybe have been the stigma that surrounded, and continues to surround, PEDs.

I had to fight to receive treatment in my mid-twenties and my experience, at least with regards to treatment options, is that a lot of the push-back could stem from the aforementioned stigma. I.e., when I pressed an endo on why it is that only Nebido or gel/cream is offered here the reply was in essence to reduce the risk for abuse which — seeing as a prescription is required in either case — makes no sense to me.

I live in a nation that has been unreasonably punitative with regards to steroids, which is why I continue my Nebido-treatment rather than seeking an alternative route. If (speculation) it was the societal controversy regarding testosterone treatment that made it so that I didn’t receive treatment already as a teenager, rather than a weighed medical decision, then that is highly regrettable. I know this is n=1, but I for the first time in over a decade do not identify myself as depressed after having started treatment and, as I’ve said to my family, would have found it an acceptable trade-off (if such a trade-off was to be required) that PEDs were easier to abuse, if individuals such as myself would have received the treatment they needed with less burden and greater ease.

Yes. If pro-athletes could be open with it I believe a lot of people would hold themselves to more reasonable standards in the abscence of PEDs both with regards to performance but also how they look. Depending on the country, I know that there are other news items outside of sports that have fed into the negative view regarding PEDs (steroid-rage), but in general I believe — and this is an assumption on my part — that the negative regard held for steroid-use by sports athletes is the primary driver behind the societal disdain for PEDs.

On the whole, I speculate that this can be a net-loss for a society as a whole, seeing as a lot of these drugs can aid with not only hypogonadism, but serve to reduce recovery times after an injury or a surgery.

This does not mean I believe every young buck looking to build some muscle should be given carte blanche by making these drugs available over the counter, but I find that the current hostile standing that so many nations hold towards this category of pharmaceuticals is disproportionate.

As a corollary, the medical community becomes stymied as they are not as able to study the effects of these drugs to know how to administer them in the best way possible and this knowledge then is offset to other circles.

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34

Alcohol certainly poses addiction issues for some, certain minorities in particular. The potencial for addiction and the destructive consequences that come with it are significantly higher for the majority of narcotics. It’s not even close. Having family with serious drug issues, and having family with drinking issues (I’m part Irish after all, lol), there is no contest. Moderate use of some alcohol can even have some health benefits - which is not an argument available for coke or meth. I am unaware of death resulting from a single drink, death has and can result from a single use of coke. Until you’ve seen drug addiction in person, you have no idea the actual damage and how much worse it is than alcohol. The drugs tend to kill faster, so you don’t have to witness the damage for as long, but it’s a lot worse.

35

I think people misunderstood my point.

If you go only by the numbers alcohol is far more devastating to the population than anything else we find taboo. That isn’t to say that in isolation alcohol is stronger than something like cocaine.

If steroids were legal tomorrow for anyone above 18, despite an uptick in it’s use I do not believe it’d be as detrimental to society as alcohol has been, as a whole.

36

Let’s try to get the thread back on track here. IMO a person that’s going to do PEDs should be at an age where they are fully developed. Mind and body. On top of that, they should also be mature and responsible (meaning their going to run gear without destroying their self and stay away from narcotics, boozing, and tobacco).
If a person decides to start PEDs they should be able to financially support themselves for what comes with taking PEDs; nutrition, supplements, health care, labs, pct, fitness cost etc. If a person is unable to provide these for them self than IMO they are not ready. That’s just my 2 cents.

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37

I agree with you.

If i had to pinpoint a specific age range, ignoring all else, I would say around 30 mid 30s the earliest to start pinning.

38

I attribute this due to the availability and cheap price of alcohol.

Suddenly restrict access or drive the prices up to what someone would be paying for coke and see what happens to the demeanor of hardcore alcoholics

Look at the organized crime/violence that stemmed from prohibition

I don’t know how naive you think I am. Not meaning to come off as aggressive but I’ve seen both sides of the coin (for example, I had/had two friends had alcoholic fathers who would come home drunk and violent, on numerous occasions they were beaten up), I’ve also seen the consequences of drug addiction, how it destroys relationships, friendships, leads to lying… stealing and cheating etc… it’s actually why I lost contact with/stopped talking to my at the time best friend (bout 6-8 months ago)

The notion of moderate amounts of alcohol being beneficial to health appears to have now been disproven within literature.

39

I don’t think naivety has anything to do with it. A trashed liver and some negative cardiovascular consequences from the hardest drinking has nothing on the brain damage from most street drugs. I have a younger brother with a meth problem. If he quit tomorrow and never did anything again, he would still never be right, his brain is permanently screwed up in many ways. He does bizarre things under compulsion to delusion, even when he’s not on at this point. Most alcoholics are not violent and can quit and go back to normal. An alcoholic doesn’t go from 250 lbs to 150 lbs in two weeks because he’s on a bender, and along the way destroy or damage thousands of dollars worth of things or kidnap his children to protect them from a Chinese sun bomb or Mexican squirrels.

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40

You mean like in most Muslim countries?

Your argument doesn’t hold up, sorry to tell you.

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41

Fair enough, sorry to hear about you’re brother

However I should point out, alcohol DOES cause irreversible brain damage and cognitive deficits when abused. In Aus we have this culture where kids go out on the weekends and slam massive ungodly amounts of booze into themselves (say in the realm of 15-25 standard drinks), some do this more often than 2x weekly… over time the consequences of this behavior will be profound, about on par with that of many street drugs

Think about it, if I compare alcohol to say… LSD, psilocybin, LSA, Mescsline etc (so traditional psychedelics) in terms of acute toxicity/adverse effects, both have the potential to induce a pronounced change in demeanor… the prospect of acutely psychotic and/or antisocial is a possibility for both as

In my opinion this simply isn’t true, when under the influence of vast amounts of ethanol, judgement and inhibition is dramatically impaired, many become complete asshats. In terms of acute lethality, alcohol wins… both may induce one to make retarded decisions… chronically we don’t know, as psychedelics aren’t particularly reinforcing, 5-HT2B mediated cardiotoxicity would theoretically be a potential concern, as would the neurological effects (I do know of one person irreparably fucked up from a singular acid blotter, I also know a few fucked up from alcohol poisoning)… one of who was in a coma for about a month after smashing his face on the sidewalk… in terms of addiction, alcohol is far more reinforcing, and alcohol is also one of the hardest substances to quit, about on par with benzodiazepines and GHB/other GABAergic depressants… withdraws can induce life threatening seizures

What about MDMA/ketamine (going up the ladder towards hard drugs here)… well pure MDMA for a healthy individual on say a ONE or very occasional scenario poses the risks of dehydration induced electrolyte imbalance and thus arrhythmia, hyperthermia, changes in demeanor. After chronic usage we have the cardiac, neurological concerns etc. however I’ve yet to see someone have the absolute shit beaten out of them on pure (as in rested for substance and purity) MDMA or pass out unresponsive, choking on their own vomit. With say ketamine you have neurotoxicity (NDMA receptor mediated) chronic scarring of the bladder, cardiotoxicity comparative to less than that of alcohol etc.

This is why I say alcohol is on par with hard drugs… it may not be QUITE as bad as meth, coke etc (although the potential for acute lethality of the substance is astounding), however it’s a good deal worse than most soft/intermittent level street drugs (if you know what you’re getting that is). I’m not condoning drug use here, nor am I saying it’s “safe”, however it’s feasible to adknowledge for many experimentation will come into play at some point during their lifespan. What I am saying is that alcohol, one of the legal substances in society, is a good deal more harmful than many other substances. We can agree to disagree in relation to this subject, as you won’t budge my opinion in relation to thinking drinking is one of the more damaging substances available to the public, both licit and illicit

Dude… alcohol hasn’t been engrained into society within these countries, thus the rate of alcoholism is comparatively low… granted people DO still get ahold of booze within some of the Muslim countries with a more progressive youth demographic (say Tehran). I’ve seen way too many people get into fights, gravely injured, nearly die, engage in risky sexual encounters, make asses out of themselves to think that alcohol is a “safe” substances (if the word SAFE can even be associated with drug use lol)… and yes I’ve been around plenty of recreational drug use, even if I haven’t personally used cocaine or methamphetamine I’ve been around the substances enough to feel I can come to an adequate conclusion… I have seen tweaked out assholes try to start fights though, sometimes with me… thus in this retrospect the way that these drugs change the demeanor of some is certainly on par with/worse than booze (esp after say a meth binge, a few days without sleep, psychosis setting in) these people have the potential to seriously hurt others… as does a very drunk kid, sloshed off his ass feeling invincible