What's With the US Obsession?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]spittle8 wrote:

They’re almost as lose with weapons sales as Russia (it just so happens that British warships were sunk in the Falklands with French anti-ship missiles, if I recall correctly)[/quote]

Yeah, everyone uses Exocet missiles. Even the British Navy did, until a few years ago. They are the M-16 rifle of the antiship missile world. Iraq used them against Iranian warships, back when the Iraqis were our dear friends. As I recall nobody criticized the French for this sale at the time.

As far as the Falklands is concerned, the Argentines fired French Exocet missiles at three British warships, but failed to do any appreciable damage with them. Similarly, the British fired American Stinger missiles at Argentine aircraft, but failed to do any appreciable damage with them.

And ironically enough, those Exocet missiles were airlifted from Argentina to the Falklands by C-130 Hercules cargo planes, which were sold to the Argentines by us.

42

I just saw a news story that the Labour Party in Britain has a 20 point edge in the latest polls. Then they wonder why unemployment is high and their work ethic is vanishing. Fascinating!

43

The world is going to become One. Do you non-Americans want an American style system, or something else? Given the history and culture of the rest of the world, I’d choose the USA model. There truly is no comparison.

True, we adopted some of Europe’s BS. But America is easily the best place on the planet.

44

This is actually a very easy topic to figure out:

Europe gave us Communism and Nazism.

Asia gave us the wonderful and torpid Ming Empire along with Kamikazees and other such insanities.

America wins, easily and hands down.

45

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
But America is easily the best place on the planet.[/quote]

I have to ask, Headhunter, without any sarcasm at all, how many other places on the planet you have personally spent sufficient time in to have come to such a confident conclusion.

46

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
But America is easily the best place on the planet.

I have to ask, Headhunter, without any sarcasm at all, how many other places on the planet you have personally spent sufficient time in to have come to such a confident conclusion.[/quote]

I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.

I have never lived anywhere excepting the United States of America (and am glad of it)! This puts me in a rather large ‘boat’, btw, since most people in the world live within 25 miles of where they were born.

I also don’t need to live (endure) other cultures to know that they are corrupt. One need only look at the axioms they embrace, all of which put the group a priori the individual. Only the United States embraces individualism as an axiom: “We hold these truths to be self-evident…”

Somehow, dying for the emporer or for the proletariat just doesn’t measure up to that.

47

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Yeah, everyone uses Exocet missiles. Even the British Navy did, until a few years ago. They are the M-16 rifle of the antiship missile world. Iraq used them against Iranian warships, back when the Iraqis were our dear friends. As I recall nobody criticized the French for this sale at the time.

As far as the Falklands is concerned, the Argentines fired French Exocet missiles at three British warships, but failed to do any appreciable damage with them. Similarly, the British fired American Stinger missiles at Argentine aircraft, but failed to do any appreciable damage with them.

And ironically enough, those Exocet missiles were airlifted from Argentina to the Falklands by C-130 Hercules cargo planes, which were sold to the Argentines by us. [/quote]

That’s pretty damned interesting, I did not know that.

I agree with what you say, but I believe a hegemonic power is inevitable. In this sense, I think America is the best thing the world oculd possibly hope for. China would not be so benevolent. Russia was not friendly. Europe would poison society for others. The U.S., on the other hand, we have to be convinced of our ethical righteousness before using our power. We’re a nation built on the principles of liberty and equality, and I see nothing wrong with trying to export these ideals, when realistically possible.

Russia and Europe would just export weapons.

48

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.

I have never lived anywhere excepting the United States of America (and am glad of it)! This puts me in a rather large ‘boat’, btw, since most people in the world live within 25 miles of where they were born.

I also don’t need to live (endure) other cultures to know that they are corrupt. One need only look at the axioms they embrace, all of which put the group a priori the individual. Only the United States embraces individualism as an axiom: “We hold these truths to be self-evident…”

Somehow, dying for the emporer or for the proletariat just doesn’t measure up to that.

[/quote]

That post is a thing of beauty.

49

[quote]spittle8 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.

I have never lived anywhere excepting the United States of America (and am glad of it)! This puts me in a rather large ‘boat’, btw, since most people in the world live within 25 miles of where they were born.

I also don’t need to live (endure) other cultures to know that they are corrupt. One need only look at the axioms they embrace, all of which put the group a priori the individual. Only the United States embraces individualism as an axiom: “We hold these truths to be self-evident…”

Somehow, dying for the emporer or for the proletariat just doesn’t measure up to that.

That post is a thing of beauty.
[/quote]

Lol,yes,in a provincial,“I’m ok Jack,pull up the ladder” kind of way.

Comical,and sad, all simultaneously.

50

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
spittle8 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.

I have never lived anywhere excepting the United States of America (and am glad of it)! This puts me in a rather large ‘boat’, btw, since most people in the world live within 25 miles of where they were born.

I also don’t need to live (endure) other cultures to know that they are corrupt. One need only look at the axioms they embrace, all of which put the group a priori the individual. Only the United States embraces individualism as an axiom: “We hold these truths to be self-evident…”

Somehow, dying for the emporer or for the proletariat just doesn’t measure up to that.

That post is a thing of beauty.

Lol,yes,in a provincial,“I’m ok Jack,pull up the ladder” kind of way.

Comical,and sad, all simultaneously.

[/quote]

Where would YOU live? Sure, there are some places that are more tolerable than others, such as Britain or elsewhere in Northern Europe. Australia would be my second choice however, as they DO NOT drink warm beer.

I must admit that I’ve been very lucky — very poor, worked in a factory 3rd shift and got my degree, met the Mrs., got my Masters and became a teacher. Then the Mrs. inherits an absolute shitload of money from grandfather. Only in America, baby!!!

51

You can’t sit and watch the news and decide what other cultures are like.

What a fucking idiot!

52

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
spittle8 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.

I have never lived anywhere excepting the United States of America (and am glad of it)! This puts me in a rather large ‘boat’, btw, since most people in the world live within 25 miles of where they were born.

I also don’t need to live (endure) other cultures to know that they are corrupt. One need only look at the axioms they embrace, all of which put the group a priori the individual. Only the United States embraces individualism as an axiom: “We hold these truths to be self-evident…”

Somehow, dying for the emporer or for the proletariat just doesn’t measure up to that.

That post is a thing of beauty.

Lol,yes,in a provincial,“I’m ok Jack,pull up the ladder” kind of way.

Comical,and sad, all simultaneously.

Where would YOU live? Sure, there are some places that are more tolerable than others, such as Britain or elsewhere in Northern Europe. Australia would be my second choice however, as they DO NOT drink warm beer.

I must admit that I’ve been very lucky — very poor, worked in a factory 3rd shift and got my degree, met the Mrs., got my Masters and became a teacher. Then the Mrs. inherits an absolute shitload of money from grandfather. Only in America, baby!!!

[/quote]

I have lived in South America,Europe,the U.s. and in Africa.And visited many more,including a couple of the current ‘bogey’ nations such as Cuba and Venezuela.

Currently in Africa.And you know what?They all have their pluses and minuses,and I’m happy wherever I am.

I too have been very lucky.I have been exposed to cultures and peoples that have broadened my mind and taught me that there are more similarities between peoples of all different creeds and cultures than there are differences.

It has convinced me that there is more merit in societies that care about the less lucky and the downtrodden than there is those that don’t.
Also ,I have been blessed by having parents that were refugees,and gave their children every opportunity.My Father has worked in Saudi,Algeria,Egypt,Iran (all those recently ) so I have benefitted from hearing first hand accounts of all these places given to me by the most intelligent and analytically gifted man I have known.

My folks currently reside in Montreal,which is where they have chosen to finish their lives.
And to answer your question,Canada is the place in all of my travels that has impressed me the most.The people there have a humanity and social conscience that is hard to beat .It is a country that in my view,has amalgamated the best of Europe and the US.

So that would be my choice,the clincher of course being that I would love to be close to my parents.
And the girls are dead sexy…

53

[quote]vroom wrote:
You can’t sit and watch the news and decide what other cultures are like.

What a fucking idiot![/quote]

Not to sway off subject…but have you lived in the US, Vroom? Just curious.

54

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.
[/quote]

Well, that’s an interesting metaphor. I’ve got one for you.

Consider a man who ate at Mc Donalds morning, noon and night, and had never eaten anywhere else.

Sure, he had heard about other restaurants, he had even read reviews of them in newspapers, and occasionally passed by them, but, confident that they could never match the wholesome fare of burgers, fries and shakes, he would never actually go inside and order a meal.

He even became belligerent when it was suggested to him that the food offered in other restaurants was tastier, more nutritious, and was served in a more sophisticated manner. He would hear nothing of it! He was proud of his Mc Donalds, damn it, and all those hoity-toity Mc Donalds-haters could just go to heck, as far as he was concerned.

So he lived out his life, confident that there was no other restaurant around that could ever compare with Mc Donalds.

After all… none of them were founded on an axiom like “you deserve a break today.”

55

[quote]spittle8 wrote:
We’re a nation built on the principles of liberty and equality, and I see nothing wrong with trying to export these ideals, when realistically possible. [/quote]

When said exporting is at gun point, you still can’t see anything wrong with it?

56

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

It has convinced me that there is more merit in societies that care about the less lucky and the downtrodden than there is those that don’t.
[/quote]

So those who bust ass don’t gather any concern? You see, there’s the trouble with non-capitalist cultures: they place value on failure.

Failure, lack, cannot be a value. Its an absence of something. It has no merit.

“Pity makes suffering contagious.”
— Aristotle

Note that this is different than compassion. Those who suffer and are abused, like most honest businessmen are in this world, get lots of compassion from me. However, I have no compassion for the lazy and incompetent.

57

Headhunter, I don’t want to get on your case too much, because (unlike 99% of the other people on this board who disagree with you), I think you’re basically a good guy, if a bit provincial in your prejudices.

But I would like to suggest yet another book to you. This one is called Adventure Capitalist, written a couple years ago by Jim Rogers (“The Indiana Jones of Finance”). This man, who started the Quantum Fund along with George Soros, took two epic journeys around the world, the first on a BMW motorcycle, the second in a custom-made 4-wheel-drive canary yellow Mercedes-Benz convertible. Both of these treks made it into the Guinness Book of World Records.

His bike adventure is chronicled in Investment Biker, and is a good read of its own, but it is the second book that I recommend to you. You may be surprised at his pronouncements: Bolivia is among the most financially advanced countries in the world, for example. The country with the most active and innovative capitalists is no other than Communist China. And the country with the most technologically advanced internet and telecommunications infrastructure is, of all places, Mongolia.

There really is another world beyond Big Macs, Large Fries and Mac Shakes, my friend. And John Galt would tell you the same.

58

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

I’ve never stepped in donkey shit and don’t need to do so in order to confidently pass judgment on doing so.

Well, that’s an interesting metaphor. I’ve got one for you.

Consider a man who ate at Mc Donalds morning, noon and night, and had never eaten anywhere else.

Sure, he had heard about other restaurants, he had even read reviews of them in newspapers, and occasionally passed by them, but, confident that they could never match the wholesome fare of burgers, fries and shakes, he would never actually go inside and order a meal.

He even became belligerent when it was suggested to him that the food offered in other restaurants was tastier, more nutritious, and was served in a more sophisticated manner. He would hear nothing of it! He was proud of his Mc Donalds, damn it, and all those hoity-toity Mc Donalds-haters could just go to heck, as far as he was concerned.

So he lived out his life, confident that there was no other restaurant around that could ever compare with Mc Donalds.

After all… none of them were founded on an axiom like “you deserve a break today.”[/quote]

If the McDonald’s had, as an axiom, that I could order what I wanted, but the other restaurants wanted to decide what I eat, that I can only eat what they give me, I would refuse to eat there, no matter how nutritiously the poor slaves and serfs prepared the dishes.

Do you realize the moral import of offering food in free exchange for money, btw? McDonald’s and I are free to trade as we wish. No Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe has any voice.

I’ll take the McDonald’s.

59

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

If the McDonald’s had, as an axiom, that I could order what I wanted, but the other restaurants wanted to decide what I eat, that I can only eat what they give me, I would refuse to eat there, no matter how nutritiously the poor slaves and serfs prepared the dishes.

Do you realize the moral import of offering food in free exchange for money, btw? McDonald’s and I are free to trade as we wish. No Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe has any voice.

I’ll take the McDonald’s.

[/quote]

I suppose I could have used Burger King in my metaphor. McDonalds, with its “You Deserve a Break Today” could have represented your notion of the socialist rest of the world, and Burger King, with its axiom of “Have it Your Way” could have represented your idealized notion of America. This metaphor would have more closely aligned with what I imagine your worldview to be.

But in the real world, there is more variety than burgers and fries, and believe it or not, other restaurants really do have better food and service, and they’ll even let you order things that aren’t on the menu, if you know how to ask.

60

Ha! Nice new avatar, HH.