What Roosevelt Knew

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

Anyone up for a good conspiracy thread?

I’m reading Stinnett’s Day of Deceit, a book by a WWII Navy veteran, who spent 16 years researching for his book:

"December 7, 1941: A Setup from the Beginning
December 7, 2000
Robert B. Stinnett
Honolulu Advertiser

As Americans honor those 2403 men, women, and children killed?and 1178 wounded?in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Hawaii on December 7, 1941, recently released government documents concerning that ?surprise? raid compel us to revisit some troubling questions.

At issue is American foreknowledge of Japanese military plans to attack Hawaii by a submarine and carrier force 59 years ago. There are two questions at the top of the foreknowledge list:

(1) whether President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his top military chieftains provoked Japan into an ?overt act of war? directed at Hawaii, and

(2) whether Japan?s military plans were obtained in advance by the United States but concealed from the Hawaiian military commanders, Admiral Husband E. Kimmel and Lieutenant General Walter Short so they would not interfere with the overt act.

The latter question was answered in the affirmative on October 30, 2000, when President Bill Clinton signed into law, with the support of a bipartisan Congress, the National Defense Authorization Act. Amidst its omnibus provisions, the Act reverses the findings of nine previous Pearl Harbor investigations and finds that both Kimmel and Short were denied crucial military intelligence that tracked the Japanese forces toward Hawaii and obtained by the Roosevelt Administration in the weeks before the attack."

What I also find interesting is that the ships destroyed were mostly old tubs destined to be scrapped. Also, why did the Japanese avoid the huge oil tanks and the repair shops? Sure, it was probably fun for the planes to destroy crappy old battleships, but to what point?

In other words, is some group behind the scenes starting wars to rebuild the world?

Let’s go guys…it’ll be fun!!

2

Yay for conspiracy! The illuminati controls the world! Bush set up and acted out 9/11 all on his own! He even drove the plane too, and used his secret alien powers his dad got from the Martians to teleport to his reading of a children’s book in the nick of time!

Yaaaaaay!

Seriously, this has been said many, many times. It’s about as valid as loose change (the conspiracy Bush-did-9/11-ists).

3

I am sure there have been groups behind the scenes influencing events in the direction of cultural degeneracy and more wars for centuries. I think several popes up through the mid-twentieth century said or implied as much.

To what extent these groups are directly pulling the levers of power, I don’t know. Some specific allegations of conspiracy have poor arguments that are convincingly refuted (e.g. “Loose Change”). On the other hand, Benjamin Disraeli said: “The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.”

4

[quote]NealRaymond2 wrote:
I am sure there have been groups behind the scenes influencing events in the direction of cultural degeneracy and more wars for centuries. I think several popes up through the mid-twentieth century said or implied as much.

To what extent these groups are directly pulling the levers of power, I don’t know. Some specific allegations of conspiracy have poor arguments that are convincingly refuted (e.g. “Loose Change”). On the other hand, Benjamin Disraeli said: “The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.”[/quote]

Those who control the worlds faces are not known. They are “advisers” and “analysts”. They receive no credit, because they want none. They are a less glory-hungry type of people, but just as power-hungry.

If they congregate in an organization, they’re doing a damn good job of hiding it. I say bull.

But remember, if two men agree on everything, only one must be doing all the thinking.

5

Stinnetts book makes a pretty compelling case, though he does leave out some stuff.

I just wonder why the Japanese took out such meaningless targets. Why not the oil tanks, the machine shops, the dry docks, the repair shops? The era of the battleship was over (see the Bismarck).

Were the Japanese just stupid or did someone tell them the targets to hit, which would piss off the American but leave the ability to fight pretty intact.

If you fought Rancy Couture, would you gouge his eyes, or punch him in the pec?

6

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

The era of the battleship was over (see the Bismarck).[/quote]

I don’t think anyone told the Japanese.

The Yamato and the Musashi (both bigger than the Bismarck) were launched and commissioned around the Attack. A third in the Yamato class, the Shinano, was altered during construction to be an aircraft carrier after the Battle of Midway. They even had plans for a Super Yamato that never got built.

I dunno about the conspiracy theory, but the Japanese were definitely not keeping up with the rapidly evolving naval paradigm that was WWII. An imperialist monarchy will do that to you.

Nova did a special on the Yamato, it was pretty good.

7

Stinnett makes a strong case, however, I would suggest also reading “Infamy” by John Toland to get another view.

Thing is, I don’t think it matters much. Roosevelt was intent on forcing Japan to attack us somewhere because he had to somehow persuade an isolationist United States populace to enter the war willingly.

FDR’s blockade of Japan’s ports cut the Japanese off from the oil they desperately needed, and they had to attack. So, whether FDR knew the exact plans of the Japanese is beside the point. He picked the fight, and was intent on picking the fight.

8

You may also want to read Admiral Kimmel’s Story by Husband E. Kimmel, the most referenced book in Stinnett’s footnotes. Completes the picture nicely.

FDR was Secretary of the Nsvy before president. The real question is why did 3,000 Navy men have to die to commit to the war? 3,000?

To any that doubt the relevancy of the book, simply read it.