What Price for White Skin?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
341

[quote]Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
nephorm wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
[…] [P]eople as a whole move as a unit. If a prominent […] man does something of note, the crowd follows suit.

Hey, fixed it for you.

I see what you’re saying, but it rings truer amongst blacks.

How is that so? ALL people have basically the same motivations. What you personally view as “success” is based on what you grew up around, who raised you and who your peers are. Your skin color has little to do with it.

The upper class white kid whose parents can afford Summer Homes in the Keys may have a different focus on what equals success, but that doesn’t make him more right. If some poor kid knows his family can’t afford college, getting that football scholarship takes top priority. How is that a negative? Simply because he can’t afford to become a doctor and sees his path to success on a football field?

From the movie The Boiler Room:
I didn’t want to be an innovator any more, I just wanted to make the quick and easy buck, I just wanted in. The Notorious BIG said it best: “Either you’re slingin’ crack-rock, or you’ve got a wicked jump-shot.” Nobody wants to work for it anymore. There’s no honor in taking that after school job at Mickey Dee’s, honor’s in the dollar, kid. So I went the white boy way of slinging crack-rock: I became a stock broker.

Anyone who can’t see how close we are is delusional.
[/quote]

Read my initial post before you [mis]quote me. And, the monolouge read by Giovanni Ribbisi illustrate’s my point, for better or worse.

342

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Read my initial post before you [mis]quote me.[/quote]

I read both posts. I also quoted you correctly.

343

[quote]Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
nephorm wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
[…] [P]eople as a whole move as a unit. If a prominent […] man does something of note, the crowd follows suit.

Hey, fixed it for you.

I see what you’re saying, but it rings truer amongst blacks.

How is that so? ALL people have basically the same motivations. What you personally view as “success” is based on what you grew up around, who raised you and who your peers are. Your skin color has little to do with it.

The upper class white kid whose parents can afford Summer Homes in the Keys may have a different focus on what equals success, but that doesn’t make him more right. If some poor kid knows his family can’t afford college, getting that football scholarship takes top priority. How is that a negative? Simply because he can’t afford to become a doctor and sees his path to success on a football field?

[/quote]
Bullshit. My pop was a college prof and my mom is a secratary. If not for some [alot of] questionable choices on MY part I’d have gone to college to play ball and be playing overseas right now. I don’t give a fuck of what one deems more “right”. I understand what you’re saying about the athletic scholarship, but that was part of my point. Why not work as diligintlly for the academic scholarship? And, as was initially pointed out, that’s not a race thing, that’s a youth thing.

Having said that, I’ve noticed quite a few more black youth’s who view that as their only way out. Maybe that’s ‘cause their folks beat into their heads that “the white man” won’t give them a fair shake in the business world. And, if that’s the case, as fucked up as it is I can somewhat see where their folks are coming from. Having said that, as someone pointed out earlier either shit or get off the pot. I broke up with a black girl a lil’ over a week ago, and she never once bitched about her “situation”.

She paid for her own school, worked full time and COMPLETELY took care of her shit. Never asked for shit, and expected the same. Now, this isn’t [entirely] race related, but how many black people do you think could say the same? Not trying to be a shit head, that is a legitimate question.

344

We get stats thrown at us left and right comparing the black race directly to every negative act that could be performed by an individual, yet for some reason, none of you see that act itself as being racist. The proper method would be to equate criminal activity to socio-economic influences, not skin color. As a result of relating every negative act to a race, we get told that any of us who aren’t criminals and are successful are an exception to the rule.

That effectively forces any black person who is successful to act as a representative for an entire race. Should that individual fail, everyone will notice the failure as being “part of the rule” and associate it with race. I am not sure how someone could deny this.-Prof X

Prof, I don’t know if you’re posting this for the sake of debate, but I don’t believe [sincerely hope] that anyone outside or inside of the black race feels this way. And, if they do that might be part of the “problem”. I truly understand that black’s as a whole have to come up from a defecit. Anyone who say’s otherwise is full of shit or has blinders on.

Still, what the people here are pointing out is what they’ve observed. When someone dresses like a goober [XXXXL shirt with tweety bird on a M frame with koolats and an oversised hat] they’re gonna be frowned upon by “professional” society. And, you and I both know that includes black, white and other races. Most probably for different reasons, but they’re reasons that share a common theme. And I’d like to beleieve that’s so we can all be examined under the same microscope.

345

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:
Making white people pay for the crimes of other white people in the past is no way to fight racism, that is racism.

Relating blacks through statistics to crimes not committed by the individual is also racism. It is funny which wars you all run after.[/quote]

Not necessarily. If I held you responsible for “black” crime, that would be racism.

However, any sociologist or criminologist must at least entertain the thought that color of skin has at least a correlation with incarceration rates.

If poverty alone is not able to explain that difference away, color is an issue, if it is we are on to the next question, why are black people in the US relatively poor?

Meaning, asking the question is hardly, if ever, racist, the conclusions you draw from them can be and if you want to enforce rules for a collective based on skin color with ´whatever reasoning they most certainly are.

346

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
We get stats thrown at us left and right comparing the black race directly to every negative act that could be performed by an individual, yet for some reason, none of you see that act itself as being racist. The proper method would be to equate criminal activity to socio-economic influences, not skin color. As a result of relating every negative act to a race, we get told that any of us who aren’t criminals and are successful are an exception to the rule.

[/quote]

That would be myopic.

The problem could well be outside the sphere of the black communities influence, maybe institutional racism, maybe laws that are passed with an ideal white family in mind that automatically puts any other lifestyle at a disadvantage when dealing with the law, whatever.

To say that asking the question per se is racist is nonsense because by the same logic one would not have been able to inquire into the deaths of black political prisoners in South Africa.

347

[quote]Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

Insofar I do not think “they” owe “you” anything. If anyone owes anyone anything it is you (personally, and “you” collectively) who has to thank them for the chances you had and would not have had without them.

What chances have I had that I need to thank someone for?[/quote]

You were allowed to pursue a higher education, I think in part with the aid of the US military that allowed you to pursue higher goals than dish washing or peeling potatoes.

A hundred and fifty years earlier you would have been in danger by learning how to read and write.

Now I do understand that this is the way it should be and I do not actually expect you do thank anyone to play on an at least semi level playing field with surmountable obstacles, but the fact that you would have not those opportunities without changes in the hearts and minds of the white majority today remains.

Are these the people who should feel responsible for slavery?

348

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
We get stats thrown at us left and right comparing the black race directly to every negative act that could be performed by an individual, yet for some reason, none of you see that act itself as being racist. The proper method would be to equate criminal activity to socio-economic influences, not skin color. As a result of relating every negative act to a race, we get told that any of us who aren’t criminals and are successful are an exception to the rule.

That effectively forces any black person who is successful to act as a representative for an entire race. Should that individual fail, everyone will notice the failure as being “part of the rule” and associate it with race. I am not sure how someone could deny this.-Prof X

Prof, I don’t know if you’re posting this for the sake of debate, but I don’t believe [sincerely hope] that anyone outside or inside of the black race feels this way. And, if they do that might be part of the “problem”. I truly understand that black’s as a whole have to come up from a defecit. Anyone who say’s otherwise is full of shit or has blinders on. Still, what the people here are pointing out is what they’ve observed. When someone dresses like a goober [XXXXL shirt with tweety bird on a M frame with koolats and an oversised hat] they’re gonna be frowned upon by “professional” society. And, you and I both know that includes black, white and other races. Most probably for different reasons, but they’re reasons that share a common theme. And I’d like to beleieve that’s so we can all be examined under the same microscope.
[/quote]

Why is “professional society” judging someone by what they wear IN THEIR OWN FREE TIME?

349

[quote]orion wrote:
Professor X wrote:
orion wrote:

Insofar I do not think “they” owe “you” anything. If anyone owes anyone anything it is you (personally, and “you” collectively) who has to thank them for the chances you had and would not have had without them.

What chances have I had that I need to thank someone for?

You were allowed to pursue a higher education, I think in part with the aid of the US military that allowed you to pursue higher goals than dish washing or peeling potatoes.

A hundred and fifty years earlier you would have been in danger by learning how to read and write.

Now I do understand that this is the way it should be and I do not actually expect you do thank anyone to play on an at least semi level playing field with surmountable obstacles, but the fact that you would have not those opportunities without changes in the hearts and minds of the white majority today remains.

Are these the people who should feel responsible for slavery?
[/quote]

I was “allowed” to receive a higher education? The military didn’t allow me any higher goals other than being in the military. I already had my degree when I joined.

You don’t have a clue what you are talking about. 150 years earlier, blacks were treated like cattle. How do I owe “thanks” for that?

Any progress that has been made in this country was fought for. No one gave it up lightly so how would I owe thanks for not being a slave anymore?

350

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No one gave it up lightly so how would I owe thanks for not being a slave anymore?

[/quote]

You were a slave?

351

[quote]
orion wrote:
Making white people pay for the crimes of other white people in the past is no way to fight racism, that is racism.

Professor X:
Relating blacks through statistics to crimes not committed by the individual is also racism. It is funny which wars you all run after.[/quote]

It’s statistical discrimination. To take it out of the race context, it’s the same thing insurance companies do when they make young males pay higher insurance rates, and why males pay higher life insurance rates than females of the same age and general health profile. It’s a rational response to the problem of a decision-maker not having individual information.

In the case of the auto insurance, it’s based on the behavior of some young males - and it’s the fault of those young males, not of the insurance company, that the other young males are paying higher insurance rates.

352

BTW, here’s the first page of this thread translated into jive/ebonics, fo’ shizzle (it even translated the forum names on the sidebar):

http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.T-Nation.com%2Ftmagnum%2FreadTopic.do%3Fid%3D2040774

353

Lol…That was entertaining, fo rizzle.

354

Damn link in’t working for me!

355

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Damn link in’t working for me!

[/quote]

Try going to the Gizoogle home page and pasting the link to whatever you want translated:

http://www.gizoogle.com/

356

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-voguecover&prov=ap&type=lgns

This is stupid.

“It conjures up this idea of a dangerous black man,” said Tamara Walker, 29, of Philadelphia.

357

[quote]rainjack wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-voguecover&prov=ap&type=lgns

This is stupid.

“It conjures up this idea of a dangerous black man,” said Tamara Walker, 29, of Philadelphia.

[/quote]

This is the single stupidest thing in the article:

[i]But magazine analyst Samir Husni believes the photo was deliberately provocative, adding that it “screams King Kong.” Considering Vogue�??s influential history, he said, covers are not something that the magazine does in a rush.

“So when you have a cover that reminds people of King Kong and brings those stereotypes to the front, black man wanting white woman, it�??s not innocent,” he said.[/i]

The combination of what he said, and the fact that someone makes a living as a “magazine analyst” - what does he do, search magazines for examples of what he thinks is racism? If he doesn’t find any, what’s his job (seems like kind of an obvious incentive…).

358

[quote]rainjack wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-voguecover&prov=ap&type=lgns

This is stupid.

“It conjures up this idea of a dangerous black man,” said Tamara Walker, 29, of Philadelphia.

[/quote]

Here’s one writer’s take on it:

359

[quote]orion wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
We get stats thrown at us left and right comparing the black race directly to every negative act that could be performed by an individual, yet for some reason, none of you see that act itself as being racist. The proper method would be to equate criminal activity to socio-economic influences, not skin color. As a result of relating every negative act to a race, we get told that any of us who aren’t criminals and are successful are an exception to the rule.

That would be myopic.

The problem could well be outside the sphere of the black communities influence, maybe institutional racism, maybe laws that are passed with an ideal white family in mind that automatically puts any other lifestyle at a disadvantage when dealing with the law, whatever.

To say that asking the question per se is racist is nonsense because by the same logic one would not have been able to inquire into the deaths of black political prisoners in South Africa. [/quote]

My post is a quote from prof x.

360

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
orion wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
We get stats thrown at us left and right comparing the black race directly to every negative act that could be performed by an individual, yet for some reason, none of you see that act itself as being racist. The proper method would be to equate criminal activity to socio-economic influences, not skin color. As a result of relating every negative act to a race, we get told that any of us who aren’t criminals and are successful are an exception to the rule.

That would be myopic.

The problem could well be outside the sphere of the black communities influence, maybe institutional racism, maybe laws that are passed with an ideal white family in mind that automatically puts any other lifestyle at a disadvantage when dealing with the law, whatever.

To say that asking the question per se is racist is nonsense because by the same logic one would not have been able to inquire into the deaths of black political prisoners in South Africa.

My post is a quote from prof x.
[/quote]

sorry.