Is this your first time in Off Topic?
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Yes, be gentle pls
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If you get picked on by a bully five times your size, should you let him get away with it because you think heāll kick your ass?
Or should you fight for what you believe in?
Zelenskyās a hero, his country got invaded and heās fighting to defend it instead of surrendering.
My God, when did āold-stock Americansā become apologists for an old school Soviet despot who has already destroyed Chechnya, invaded and annexed Crimea and made no secret of his ambitions to restore the former Soviet Union?
Not sure how this has anything at all to do with masculinity, but if anyone invaded my country Iād be up for the fight. (And yes, I have served.)
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What are you? Some sort of anarchist? Nah. Just funninā yaā. Very true. Probably stems for the desperate desire for approval when what they need is plain old acknowledgement.
Both undoubtedly brave, but we shouldnāt equate bravery with masculinity, as itās not the sole purview of males. Also, bravery is a funny thing. What passes for bravery is sometimes a lack of imagination, a careless disregard for life or limb, or that the fear of being labeled a coward is worse than the fear of death or injury.
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Itās just that I mentioned Zelensky at the end of the article as embodying a lot of what I consider to be admirable traits of masculinity.
Thanks for clarifying - and agreed.
Zelensky does demonstrate a lot of those admirable traits, but as I think youāre implying (please correct me if Iām reading you wrong) traits such as bravery, integrity and honour are not exclusively masculine.
Fantastic read, TC. Thanks for that.
Happy to see you writing more like this again. Your voice is needed and welcome.
Absolutely, those traits are NOT exclusively masculine.
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MUCH appreciated!
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No, itās not simplistic to see this as an offensive invasion of a neighbor. If Putin had moved troops into the Donbass and stopped there, I would agree that the situation would be complicated and the history would be relevant. If Putin had stopped there, I think it would have blown over in the west after we put into place some mostly meaningless sanctions. That was what most people expected, even most in Russia. But Putin bombed Kyiv and Kharkiv and Lviv. He tried to take them with troops on the ground (not Lviv, but that was mostly because of geography). He set out to destroy Ukraine as an independent government and control all of the relevant territory.
You also seem to keep going back to framing my objections as being me just listening to the media narrative and needing to āGoogle it.ā Iāll repeat that I actually do have a dog in this fight. This war has affected many of my friends and family members. Iām not just basing my opinion on watching cable news. I recognize your right to disagree and this is complicated. But my opinion is not one that was formed based on a surface level knowledge of the issues gained through watching TV or listening to western commentators.
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@RiceJ , I see that you literally joined this site 22 hours ago. Your only posts are on this topic. How much is the GRU paying you?
The only way you donāt have a dog in this fight is that you are literally the dog in this fight.
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Indeed! A few more characteristics of real masculinity:
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Understands that the pursuit of truth is a greater endeavor than the maintenance of beliefs (i.e. subordinates personal beliefs, no matter how seductive, to facts and educated consensus, and allows his mind to evolve (or even radically change) in light of new evidence, academic and anecdotal; recognizes that the boldness with which he asserts something doesnāt relate to how true it is).
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Defines success not by how much power or wealth he has, but instead by how he stacks up against various metrics of personal development, and by his value to others.
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Welcomes well-meaning criticism for the growth opportunity it provides, and isnāt afraid to repeatedly fail so long as it leads to learning and improvement.
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Eschews dogma in favor of the conclusions (by others and himself) formed through critical thinking.
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Considers kindness and empathy to be among his greatest strengths.
Great stuff! But Iām thinking that those characteristics arenāt the exclusive domain of men. Women aspire to those same things.
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I agree with the article that there are two extremes of masculinity are being preached today and both are wrong.
But i think that there are two separate conversations that are being mixed in this.
- what is masculine and feminine
- what should a man strive for
There are definitely behaviors that are considered more masculine (aggression, competitiveness ect) and some that are considered more feminine (nurturing, loving etc.).
But it is a mistaken premise is that a more masculine man is an ideal to strive for in all situations.
Being more masculine across the board does not mean being a better person.
Many evil dictators and terrorists had ''balls to do things" and āaggressivenessā and had āintegrityā to evil ideology.
They were very masculine but they were also evil SOBs.
Same for the father calling his son a pussy.
A good man knows when to tap into his masculine essence (war, career, ideals ) ect but should know when he needs to strive for more feminine attributes (caring for his gf, spouse families ect)
Men and woman need to come on to both masculine and feminine behaviors in order to be successful in life.
The difference is that men by nature seem to be more inclined to more masculine behaviors and females by nature seem to be more inclined to feminine behaviors.
The obvious outcome is that people tend to pursue activities that fit with their essence and will usually find fulfillment in them.
Of course this is far from black and white as there males with a more feminine essence and vice versa and there is nothing wrong with that.
in summary: there are definitely behaviors that are more masculine and feminine.
A good man or lady will evaluate his or her personality and pick a life path based on their personality (masculine or feminine) but will strive to be able to to channel the essence that is needed in a given situation even if it does not come natural .
The most comprehensive book Iāve ever read on masculinity and how itās been consistently defined throughout history within every society and civilization is āThe Way of Menā by Jack Donovan. He defines the tactical virtues of masculinity as strength, courage, mastery and honor (defined as your reputation among your peers in your tribe) - and goes into great detail of what each virtue constitutes.
T Nation is a great source of very useful information. Iām found of it very much. Thank so much for your work. Go on please.
But policy is not your big thing.
The given example of masculinity is very disputable.
And it can lead to creating a false hero.
Cocainenissimo Zelensky is a cynical lying drugclown. He is a puppet and a corrupted dummy.
Acting skill and nothing more.
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@TC_Luoma specifically did not mention his politics - at all.
Masculinity isnāt (or shouldnāt be) relegated to one particular political ideology, itās just how one actsā¦ none of which have anything to do with your accusations here (no matter how truthful they may be).
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At least heās not another clowndick who joined this site just to comment on this thread.
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I do not intend to start political dispute. What I wrote was not about ideology. It was exactly about the mode of actions.
It is like respect the enemy if he is really manly. Butā¦ not in case of the example of that man.
Did not want to hurt TC_Luoma at all. Wrote just about chosen example in the context of masculinity.