[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
LOL - slavery thread turned into a discussion of free-will? I love it!
as a bona-fied member of the free will crowd, let me just say that I do believe in free will - it’s what allows a man to choose to be a slave or a free man regardless of his background or experiences.
Veg - can’t I call a helicopter and fly over the volcano? free will rules!!![/quote]
What is your phone does not work becuase of the ash cloud, or you do not have the money to pay for the helicopter flight? Free will is limited.
I personally am a member of free will, and I will say a slave has the free will to not allow the slave owner to control his/her mind or Hope. They might be able to control their actions, but not their mind.[/quote]
They can’t even control thier actions. In an absolute sense. They can make the decision to not follow thier commands an easy decision, just like walking around the volcano is the easy choice. Go pick me 10 bails of cotton or I’ll shoot you, or I’ll shoot your child, or I’ll lash you 30 times, etc… Now picking cotton all day may indeed suck, but for many people it’s better than getting lashed and or getting killed. With all that being said, The “SLAVE” still has the CHOICE. Only through physical restraint can you take away a persons free will.
Here lets do it this way, if all slaves coordinated (I’m talking early US) a revolt, they could quickly gain thier freedom with enough violence and numbers, They had the numbers, they just didn’t have enough of thier constituents who wanted to bree from slavery bad enough.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Bro you’re so black and white it’s not even funny. Do you think environmental factors and societal factors have any bearing on an individuals decision making? Someone can make a decision, a choice and it can be ENTIRELY because of environmental factors no? Hey sloth, get to the other side of that active volcano. Ok, so you walk around it, what you don’t do is attempt to walk right through the middle, WHY? Because you would die. So you made a decision, but according to your weak logic, you had no choice.
V[/quote]
First, you’re arguing with the wrong guy. I don’t believe man is purely a bio-chem machine. Nor do I believe man simply has the illusion of free will. I’m religious.
I was arguing with others who hold that view. Never freely makes choices. Take your example, while adopting such a view. I went around the volcano because my perfectly functioning survival mechanisms in my perfectly functioning brain made the ‘choice’ for me.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Bro you’re so black and white it’s not even funny. Do you think environmental factors and societal factors have any bearing on an individuals decision making? Someone can make a decision, a choice and it can be ENTIRELY because of environmental factors no? Hey sloth, get to the other side of that active volcano. Ok, so you walk around it, what you don’t do is attempt to walk right through the middle, WHY? Because you would die. So you made a decision, but according to your weak logic, you had no choice.
V[/quote]
First, you’re arguing with the wrong guy. I don’t believe man is purely a bio-chem machine. Nor do I believe man simply has the illusion of free will. I’m religious.
I was arguing with others who hold that view. Never freely makes choices. Take your example, while adopting such a view. I went around the volcano because my perfectly functioning survival mechanisms in my perfectly functioning brain made the ‘choice’ for me.[/quote]
So at what point does the mechanisms in the brain stop making the decisions and when does the spirit or higher self take over? BTW I’m not saying I know, I’m just interested in your views.