Are the notions of slavery and freedom subjective?
[quote]John S. wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
None of what you said is gifting of life. I can’t gift ‘my life.’ Noone can say “Oh hey thanks. Let me put just put that on.” Noone can take up that life and ‘put it on.’[/quote]
You can give up your life for your kids. Your life is your property.
You build up human capital(yourself) and sell it all the time.[/quote]
Eh, I don’t think I’m getting across what I’m meaning. I guess “I can not gift who I am, therefore, I can’t gift my LIFE.” Now, remember folks, I’m admittedly doing this to be argumentative.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m admittedly doing this to be argumentative.[/quote]
And it only costs you your credibility.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Are the notions of slavery and freedom subjective?[/quote]
…everything is subjective, but let’s make a distinction between voluntary slavery and involuntary slavery?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m admittedly doing this to be argumentative.[/quote]
And it only costs you your credibility.[/quote]
Nossir. I announced it from the very first post.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sacrifice a lizard and it will all make sense to you.
See !?!
[/quote]
yep . . . would have made all of the difference
Alimony.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
Alimony.[/quote]
Ha!
“What is slavery” is a question that only a free man would ask . . . . a slave knows he is a slave. It’s a question found in luxury and based on superiority.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
“What is slavery” is a question that only a free man would ask . . . . a slave knows he is a slave. It’s a question found in luxury and based on superiority.[/quote]
Are you saying I am a free man? Sure doesn’t feel like it. I want to do things that I cannot do, the consequences outweigh the benefit.
Which brings me to another point, there are things I canot do because I cannot due to the laws of physics, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of man, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my family, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my wife, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my self. Thats a shitload of people and or things deciding what I can and cannot do. FUCK!
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
“What is slavery” is a question that only a free man would ask . . . . a slave knows he is a slave. It’s a question found in luxury and based on superiority.[/quote]
Are you saying I am a free man? Sure doesn’t feel like it. I want to do things that I cannot do, the consequences outweigh the benefit.
Which brings me to another point, there are things I canot do because I cannot due to the laws of physics, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of man, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my family, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my wife, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my self. Thats a shitload of people and or things deciding what I can and cannot do. FUCK!
V[/quote]
LOL - no, you’re phrasing it wrong - there are things you would like to do, but choose (ie freedom) to not do them because of the consequences. That choice limits you. Slavery is imposed by others, limitations are self-imposed.
You can jump off a building (freedom of choice), but that freedom to choose to jump does not negate the consequences. You are free to choose and free to suffer the consequence. You set limits on yourself and accept the resultant conditions.
but here is the paradox (and the heart of Ephrem was actually trying to say - yes, I actually do try to understand what others post) . . . a slave is only a slave because he has chosen to mentally accept the limitations of the slavery imposed by others upon his body . . . the momement he chooses the consequences of freedom over the continuity of slavery he breaks the limitations of his mind and then frees his body from slavery.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
“What is slavery” is a question that only a free man would ask . . . . a slave knows he is a slave. It’s a question found in luxury and based on superiority.[/quote]
Are you saying I am a free man? Sure doesn’t feel like it. I want to do things that I cannot do, the consequences outweigh the benefit.
Which brings me to another point, there are things I canot do because I cannot due to the laws of physics, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of man, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my family, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my wife, and there are things I cannot do because of the laws of my self. Thats a shitload of people and or things deciding what I can and cannot do. FUCK!
V[/quote]
LOL - no, you’re phrasing it wrong - there are things you would like to do, but choose (ie freedom) to not do them because of the consequences. That choice limits you. Slavery is imposed by others, limitations are self-imposed.
You can jump off a building (freedom of choice), but that freedom to choose to jump does not negate the consequences. You are free to choose and free to suffer the consequence. You set limits on yourself and accept the resultant conditions.
but here is the paradox (and the heart of Ephrem was actually trying to say - yes, I actually do try to understand what others post) . . . a slave is only a slave because he has chosen to mentally accept the limitations of the slavery imposed by others upon his body . . . the momement he chooses the consequences of freedom over the continuity of slavery he breaks the limitations of his mind and then frees his body from slavery. [/quote]
Hmmm Interesting, So essentially ALL slavery is self imposed because one chooses the conditions of the slavery versus the conditions of being a free man, even if being a free man results in death?
V
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
but here is the paradox (and the heart of Ephrem was actually trying to say - yes, I actually do try to understand what others post) . . . a slave is only a slave because he has chosen to mentally accept the limitations of the slavery imposed by others upon his body . . . the momement he chooses the consequences of freedom over the continuity of slavery he breaks the limitations of his mind and then frees his body from slavery. [/quote]
Yes.
Could we all then say that all men are as free as they want to be?
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Hmmm Interesting, So essentially ALL slavery is self imposed because one chooses the conditions of the slavery versus the conditions of being a free man, even if being a free man results in death?
V[/quote]
…in some cases there might be nuances, but in general terms: i think so, yes…
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Could we all then say that all men are as free as they want to be?
V[/quote]
…ultimately it does come down to this…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Could we all then say that all men are as free as they want to be?
V[/quote]
…ultimately it does come down to this…[/quote]
Ok, I agree, what then do you call a person who is abducted against thier will and physically restrained. Even if they had the will to act in thier own interests, another human or humans has restrained them physically (with a cell with bars most commonly) so they cannot physically make any actions other than those inside the restraints. Prisoner?
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Could we all then say that all men are as free as they want to be?
V[/quote]
…ultimately it does come down to this…[/quote]
Ok, I agree, what then do you call a person who is abducted against thier will and physically restrained. Even if they had the will to act in thier own interests, another human or humans has restrained them physically (with a cell with bars most commonly) so they cannot physically make any actions other than those inside the restraints. Prisoner?
V[/quote]
…i guess so. It’s a matter of definitions; a slave usually has to do something. The act of having to do something can be opposed. Being confined to a space without a means of escape, well… what can you do?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Could we all then say that all men are as free as they want to be?
V[/quote]
…ultimately it does come down to this…[/quote]
Ok, I agree, what then do you call a person who is abducted against thier will and physically restrained. Even if they had the will to act in thier own interests, another human or humans has restrained them physically (with a cell with bars most commonly) so they cannot physically make any actions other than those inside the restraints. Prisoner?
V[/quote]
…i guess so. It’s a matter of definitions; a slave usually has to do something. The act of having to do something can be opposed. Being confined to a space without a means of escape, well… what can you do?
[/quote]
So I’m just trying to cover a few things here so I can make this statement, Slavery is self imposed, whereas imprisonment is forced upon you from an outside entity. Does anyone disagree with that statement for the most part?
V