I won’t say it’s irrational, but it is rooted in racism…
[/quote]
I made the point in the OP that “racism” needs to be defined otherwise it’s a meaningless pejorative. Can you define exactly what you mean by “racism?”[/quote]
I’m cool with Google’s definition:
“The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races”
Like I said, racism is a spectrum, with “Kill all N*****” on one end and “Black people are good at basketball” on the other. The former is obviously terrible, but the latter still has it’s problems.
No, he doesn’t mean that. He means people should have a choice as to whether they want to go to an integrated school or not. That’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. And it’s not motivated by “hate” due to the “colour of their skin”. It’s to do with the massive social problems in the black community that are carried over into schools; gang violence, low grades, learning and literacy problems, anti-social behaviour.
[/quote]
…Wow. Maybe gang violence, low grades, learning and literacy problems, and anti-social behavior problems with black students could be addressed by…I don’t know…sending them to a good school? A good school previously only open to white students? And maybe, just maybe, a black child’s right to a decent education trumps white supremacy?
If you seriously don’t see anything conceivably racist or extremist with his point of view, we’re done with this subject.
It depends: are young, black males capable of crossing the street? If so, I don’t know what the hell good crossing the street is going to do for you. Unless they’ve identified you as a potential mark and they’re too lazy to follow you across the road, in which case you’re right.
[/quote]
Crossing the street gives me valuable information. If they don’t cross, then I see them as less of a threat. If they do cross, then the threat increases dramatically and I’m looking for another route for my GF and I.
[quote]Your rational mind might also know that even if a larger percentage of crime is committed by young black men in your area, the vast majority of young black men are not violent criminals, and when they are it’s overwhelmingly black-on-black.
I won’t say it’s irrational, but it is rooted in racism. It’s the same prejudice that makes police officers more likely to use lethal force against young black men for the same crime, and one of the primary arguments for segregation way back when. It’s something we as a society have been working to abolish, and I think we should keep trying. [/quote]
If you can’t claim that my behavior is irrational, then what you’re saying is that it’s both rational and racist. I would say that those two terms, in current usage, are mutually exclusive. To be rational is to be sane and thoughtful in a clear headed manner. Yet to be racist, in modern parlance, is to be fearful, stupid, and ignorant.
So how is it that I’m both sane and stupid, clear-headed yet ignorant?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
If my GF and I are walking home from a late dinner and drinks and there is a group of young, black males walking towards us, is it racist or rational to cross the street? Or both? Neither?[/quote]
Neither.
It is a sub-rational impulse, developed over hundreds of thousands of years of primate evolution.
I won’t say it’s irrational, but it is rooted in racism…
[/quote]
I made the point in the OP that “racism” needs to be defined otherwise it’s a meaningless pejorative. Can you define exactly what you mean by “racism?”[/quote]
I’m cool with Google’s definition:
“The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races”
Like I said, racism is a spectrum, with “Kill all N*****” on one end and “Black people are good at basketball” on the other. The former is obviously terrible, but the latter still has it’s problems. [/quote]
And BTW, there are actually fertility issues between some mixed race couples.
[/quote]
I’m guessing that you’re being purposely vague - after all, there are actually fertility issues between some same-race couples as well - but as it follows the rest of your post, I’d really like to see a citation for this. I’ve done a cursory search and found nothing, unless you count Stormfront.org.
So what do you think “racism” is? How would you define it?[/quote]
Here’s the definition that I prefer to use when I teach the concept in my sociology courses:
Racism is the belief that one’s race or ethic group (or a select racial or ethnic group or groups) is (are) naturally superior to other races or ethnic groups.
This is defined apart from prejudice and discrimination, which are separate vocabulary terms, each of which is mutually exclusive, yet both are often part of inherent racial biases that emerge from group subcultures.
With that having been said, you won’t find an unassailable definition in the social sciences, because even anthropological or social science experts might disagree on a working definition, much the same as history is often an interpretation of one’s own ‘scientific’ findings or research.
No, he doesn’t mean that. He means people should have a choice as to whether they want to go to an integrated school or not. That’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it. And it’s not motivated by “hate” due to the “colour of their skin”. It’s to do with the massive social problems in the black community that are carried over into schools; gang violence, low grades, learning and literacy problems, anti-social behaviour.
[/quote]
…Wow. Maybe gang violence, low grades, learning and literacy problems, and anti-social behavior problems with black students could be addressed by…I don’t know…sending them to a good school? A good school previously only open to white students? And maybe, just maybe, a black child’s right to a decent education trumps white supremacy?
If you seriously don’t see anything conceivably racist or extremist with his point of view, we’re done with this subject. [/quote]
Actually, I think you’re right. I was being bigoted but I’ve opened my eyes now. You’re right about better schools. That’s all they need. This video helped open my eyes in that regard.
And BTW, there are actually fertility issues between some mixed race couples.
[/quote]
I’m guessing that you’re being purposely vague - after all, there are actually fertility issues between some same-race couples as well - but as it follows the rest of your post, I’d really like to see a citation for this. I’ve done a cursory search and found nothing, unless you count Stormfront.org.
[/quote]
Storm front is a Nazi site. I’m not a Nazi. I’ll try to dig up the source for you. It was a comment just out of interest. I’m not trying to make any specific point in that regard.
So what do you think “racism” is? How would you define it?[/quote]
Here’s the definition that I prefer to use when I teach the concept in my sociology courses:
Racism is the belief that one’s race or ethic group (or a select racial or ethnic group or groups) is (are) naturally superior to other races or ethnic groups.
This is defined apart from prejudice and discrimination, which are separate vocabulary terms, each of which is mutually exclusive, yet both are often part of inherent racial biases that emerge from group subcultures.
With that having been said, you won’t find an unassailable definition in the social sciences, because even anthropological or social science experts might disagree on a working definition, much the same as history is often an interpretation of one’s own ‘scientific’ findings or research.
[/quote]
“Superior” at what? That’s a value judgement. To say white men can’t jump is not a value judgement about blacks being “superior” it’s an objective fact.
So how is it that I’m both sane and stupid, clear-headed yet ignorant?
[/quote]
You’re not. It was a bullshit response and more telling of his own biases than anything.
You example assumes a particular situation, and it’s obvious. Neither you nor I, nor anyone that isn’t an ignorant asshole, is going to even consider crossing the street if the young black males in question are dressed in suits and talking about how much the Cubs suck and Theo isn’t the answer, or how the SP is faltering and maybe we are seeing the equity bubble burst.
The flip side of your question is that, most rational people wanting to remain as safe as possible, with situational awareness are crossing the street if it is a group of white Hell’s Angels, as well as a group of bangers protecting the crack spot.
In any event, factors other than skin color are much more distinguishing and important in this situation. Clothing, vernacular and body language being the top three.
That being said, living were I’ve lived… The white kids that have been accepted into (or even as a tag along) by the gangs that appear to be otherwise racially segregated are the ones you have to look out for more than any other. At least where I live. The white kid that is accepted by the (Asian in this case) gang is a shady motherfucker who has done some dubious shit to earn their respect.
“Superior” at what? That’s a value judgement. To say white men can’t jump is not a value judgement about blacks being “superior” it’s an objective fact.[/quote]
I answered your question. It’s a standard working definition in sociology, which I acknowledged was not universally accepted, but based on some notion that a group would find a sense of superiority over another.
I do not feel it’s a value judgement, but in all honesty I feel you start these threads just to begin endless arguments. This was quite clear to me in the gay marriage discussion thread. While I’m not saying you’re a bad person, confirmation bias in your data mining is rampant. I answered the question, as I stated, and I believe I am under no further obligation to engage in endless debate that goes nowhere here.
[quote]JR249 wrote:
yet both are often part of inherent racial biases that emerge from group subcultures.
[/quote]
While I find the idea that one race is inherently better than another based on skin color silly as shit, the idea one culture is better than another, inherently, is certainly valid.
Westboro culture is worse than modern ultra-feminist culture, and modern ultra-feminist culture is worse than Contemporary Mouth Frothing Atheist culture. So on and so forth until you get to, generally speaking, large enough cultural groups where the fringe no longer defines the culture, and things start to even out in the “good norms v bad norms” categories.
“Superior” at what? That’s a value judgement. To say white men can’t jump is not a value judgement about blacks being “superior” it’s an objective fact.[/quote]
I answered your question. It’s a standard working definition in sociology, which I acknowledged was not universally accepted, but based on some notion that a group would find a sense of superiority over another.
I do not feel it’s a value judgement, but in all honesty I feel you start these threads just to begin endless arguments. This was quite clear to me in the gay marriage discussion thread. While I’m not saying you’re a bad person, confirmation bias in your data mining is rampant. I answered the question, as I stated, and I believe I am under no further obligation to engage in endless debate that goes nowhere here.
[/quote]
Lol! Are you fucking serious? It was a single response to you because you came into the thread and joined the discussion. And if you’d read the thread you’d see I’m fucking bored of it and not interested in the endless going around in circles from the kooks who don’t believe in race. I’m done with this. /out
While I find the idea that one race is inherently better than another based on skin color silly as shit, the idea one culture is better than another, inherently, is certainly valid.
Westboro culture is worse than modern ultra-feminist culture, and modern ultra-feminist culture is worse than Contemporary Mouth Frothing Atheist culture. So on and so forth until you get to, generally speaking, large enough cultural groups where the fringe no longer defines the culture, and things start to even out in the “good norms v bad norms” categories. [/quote]
When you compare cultures as being inherently superior or inferior, it’s classified as ethnocentrism, not racism. My use of “subculture” previously was referring to group comparisons, but perhaps I should have stuck with “race or ethnic group” to avoid confusion.
Lol! Are you fucking serious? It was a single response to you because you came into the thread and joined the discussion. And if you’d read the thread you’d see I’m fucking bored of it and not interested in the endless going around in circles from the kooks who don’t believe in race. I’m done with this. /out[/quote]
I answered your question, then you deflected with another about value judgments, which I personally see as irrelevant to what you asked. It was an observation.
Lol! Are you fucking serious? It was a single response to you because you came into the thread and joined the discussion. And if you’d read the thread you’d see I’m fucking bored of it and not interested in the endless going around in circles from the kooks who don’t believe in race. I’m done with this. /out[/quote]
I answered your question, then you deflected with another about value judgments, which I personally see as irrelevant to what you asked. It was an observation.
[/quote]
I responded to the unsolicited post directed at and quoting me. I’m not interested in your endless arguing. And in relation to your comment, that definition(of which I am familiar), is completely inadequate. It contributes to the problem.