What Is Going On With Auto Makers?

A Japanese company (Toyota ) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced
long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the
reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person
steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person
rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a
Consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while
not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent
another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team’s management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents
and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new
performance system that would give the one person rowing the boat greater
incentive to work harder. It was called the “Rowing Team Quality First
Program”, with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. There
was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra
vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor
performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and
cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was
distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year’s
racing team was out-sourced to India.

The End.

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Unions and not updating their machinery. One example is:

To change the machines to paint the body of the car from one color to another it took toyota less than 5mins for Ford, it took them over 1/2 a working day. Granted this is from a few yrs ago, but the damage is done. Better machines= reduced costs, faster production, better reliability.[/quote]

When you tie in the union costs with the greed of upper management it is a wonder that they have any money to spend on R&D and tooling.

They have dug themselves into a pretty deep hole.

American cars just break down all the time. Plus they all look the same. Every american car seems to have the same standard interior. I mean make some bad ass cars for once that people can afford.

Look at the Corolla Sport. That car is under $16,000 and you can drive it forever and it will never break down. Plus its actually a good looking car. What american car is even close to that? A Dodge Neon or Ford Focus? Those cars look like shit compared to the toyota.

The problem is americans know how to make expensive muscle cars that look sweet. The vett, GT, viper. Those cars are all sweet. But guess what…not a lot of people can afford them.

The money to be made is in the under $20,000 range. There isn’t anything that looks good or is dependable that american manufactures produce in that price range.

Not to mention that toyota basically has it so you can customize your car now at the dealership. Something that was originally an american concept that no longer really exists anymore with american manufactures.

Just look at the Scion line and how popular it is. Most cars under $20,000 and individualized.

What next, the housing market in trouble? But the economy is so strong!

I don’t have the time to research the way I used to (at least not for cars and vacuums) so I subscribe to consumer reports.

They come out with best used cars and used cars to avoid every year. There isn’t a single Honda or Toyota in their list of used cars to avoid. That is dominated by US automakers.

Honda and Toyota dominate the best used car categories in every price range. That’s all I need to know.

The last thing I want to worry about is whether or not I’m going to get home from work because of my stupid car breaking down. If I want to tinker with an engine, it’s much more fun to do that on the Harley.

We were actually just discusing this in one of my classes the other day.

Supposivly North American made vehicals have the worst gas milage. Therefor they cost more to run, and create more polution.

Detroit is still production driven which means they don’t utilize market data when scheduling production. That’s why dealers can’t sell cars sometimes. Pickups with little engines, SUV’s with 2 whl drive int eh NE. Stuff like that just kills profitability. They need to listen to the market.

The other reason is pension and health care costs. They are killing the US automakers. Between those costs and UAW contracts that force the automakers to pay workers who are idle are adding $1500-2500 to the cost of a US Car. They simply can’t compete.

Quality issues are moot at this point. US designs also seem to have an edge. Japanese designs are becoming similar and booring. Look at Chrysler’s product line…it beats any Japanese company low to high end.

[quote]Brett T. wrote:

This is what I’m talking about right here. Do you have any statistics that indicate foreign cars STILL outlive American, or are you going off the reputation these cars made decades ago?

Again, I’d like some maintenance statistics. Not just how often the cars break down, but how much each costs to repair.
[/quote]

Get the Consumer Reports Car buying guide. It shows stats from reported repairs and operating costs.

PS… I’ve owned:

ONE American car (what a piece of junk)
2 Nissans
3 Toyotas

[quote]DanErickson wrote:
We were actually just discusing this in one of my classes the other day.

Supposivly North American made vehicals have the worst gas milage. Therefor they cost more to run, and create more polution.[/quote]

You guys should discuss less and write more.

DB

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Just a “Management Compensation” note…

You gotta LOVE when these “poor” people get fired…and walk away with MILLIONS AND health benefits!

Amazing…

Mufasa[/quote]

There pensions are part of the deal.

Do they have job security like a union worker?

No.

Can you get rid of them quickly if things go wrong?

Yes, but it costs you, but far less than keeping someone unqualified at the top of a multi-billion dollar business.

In the grand scheme of things multi million dollar salaries matter very little to a multi-national corporation.

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
DanErickson wrote:
We were actually just discusing this in one of my classes the other day.

Supposivly North American made vehicals have the worst gas milage. Therefor they cost more to run, and create more polution.

You guys should discuss less and write more.

DB[/quote]

That is easy to explain.

Try to drive an SUV in an old European or Asian city.

Or try to find a parking space.

I guess those $35,000-$40,000 dollar Dodge trucks that are made in old mexico cost so much ,because their paying their workers a buck fifty- to two bucks an hour to make them??? and i forgot the dogmeat taco and water they give them for lunch.

By the way I’d just like to say that GM is making money elsewhere in the world just not in North America.


Well…

At least drug dealers are buying “Escalades”…

Mufasa

Anyone here having problems with their toyota or honda?

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
By the way I’d just like to say that GM is making money elsewhere in the world just not in North America.[/quote]

I know. I wish they would bring the cars they make for europe to the US. Crap, Ford makes people movers (mini vans) with turbos from the factory. Might even buy one of those if they were here. At least we get one form of the fords turbo inline five in the new Volvo C30. Man thing would be fun.

[quote]five-twelve wrote:
Just look at the Scion line and how popular it is. Most cars under $20,000 and individualized.
[/quote]

My xB (the Box) has TONS of interior room. A few months back a 17 year old kid changed lanes into the drivers side of the box and it was put in the shop for a few weeks.

The rental car was a Ford Taurus… a FULL-SIZED vehicle.

The interior sucked… SUCKED. How the hell do you design a full sized car with a cramped interior? Even the doors were horrible. Over half of the driver’s door length was made useless by the dash and steering wheel protruding back. I had VERY little room to get my wheelchair in the car. There is no reason a Scion xB should be a lot roomier inside. The xB even has a lot more back seat legroom. Overall, the Taurus just sucked - interior room, controls, comfort… everything. Amazingly, it sold by the bazillions and was heralded as a very important vehicle for FORD.

So back to the xB - It’s price was about 15,500. Consumer reports said to find a comperable vehicle in its class you’d have to spend $20,000. That is something American auto mfg. can’t match.

I remember when the FIRST Gulf War broke out and gas prices jumped. To me it seemed painfully obvious that it was time to look to "smarter" more efficient cars. However, once the initial spike was over, American's just went back to buying large vehicles. Then US auto manufacturers went SUV crazy. Consumers, not being the brightest of critters, tended to panic to keep up with the Jones's. Gas kept getting higher, SUV's kept getting bigger and consumers kept buying out of vanity. When the most recent gas crisis hit, GM said they were caught "off gaurd" or some such nonsense. How the hell could they not notice gas had been climbing for over a decade? How could they not notice they were putting all their eggs in the SUV and large truck basket?

… bah… silly work interfering with my (weak) thought process…

[quote]4est wrote:
five-twelve wrote:
Just look at the Scion line and how popular it is. Most cars under $20,000 and individualized.

My xB (the Box) has TONS of interior room. A few months back a 17 year old kid changed lanes into the drivers side of the box and it was put in the shop for a few weeks.

The rental car was a Ford Taurus… a FULL-SIZED vehicle.

The interior sucked… SUCKED. How the hell do you design a full sized car with a cramped interior? Even the doors were horrible. Over half of the driver’s door length was made useless by the dash and steering wheel protruding back. I had VERY little room to get my wheelchair in the car. There is no reason a Scion xB should be a lot roomier inside. The xB even has a lot more back seat legroom. Overall, the Taurus just sucked - interior room, controls, comfort… everything. Amazingly, it sold by the bazillions and was heralded as a very important vehicle for FORD.

So back to the xB - It’s price was about 15,500. Consumer reports said to find a comperable vehicle in its class you’d have to spend $20,000. That is something American auto mfg. can’t match.

I remember when the FIRST Gulf War broke out and gas prices jumped. To me it seemed painfully obvious that it was time to look to "smarter" more efficient cars. However, once the initial spike was over, American's just went back to buying large vehicles. Then US auto manufacturers went SUV crazy. Consumers, not being the brightest of critters, tended to panic to keep up with the Jones's. Gas kept getting higher, SUV's kept getting bigger and consumers kept buying out of vanity. When the most recent gas crisis hit, GM said they were caught "off gaurd" or some such nonsense. How the hell could they not notice gas had been climbing for over a decade? How could they not notice they were putting all their eggs in the SUV and large truck basket?

… bah… silly work interfering with my (weak) thought process…[/quote]

I know what you mean…

I once rented a Mercedes A class, which is tiny on the outside, and you have plenty of room room plus storage space.

You also sit pretty high, so you see everything going on around you.

[quote]4est wrote:
five-twelve wrote:
Just look at the Scion line and how popular it is. Most cars under $20,000 and individualized.

My xB (the Box) has TONS of interior room.[/quote]

NIce to see someone else rocking the bBox. No way Ford or GM could pull it off at that price.

[quote]krayon wrote:
Anyone here having problems with their toyota or honda? [/quote]

I drive a 2004 Corolla. It’s awesome. Very smooth ride and lots of room, and decent pickup for an economy car.

Before I got the Corolla, I test-drove a Mazda 3. It had a beautiful racing interior and the ride was really smooth too.

Compare these to the Cavalier I rented a couple of years ago, which had an ugly outdated interior and was very shaky on the highway.

The problem is the Americans just produce an inferior product. That’s the bottom line.