What if Christians are Wrong?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.) [/quote]

This all fabulous, but just because you say something does not mean it is true.

Mohammedanism was a heresy. Once this is grasped, then I can go further. But, we’ll start with point one.

Mohammedanism did not start out as a pagan contrast to the Church or an alien enemy. It was a mere perversion of Christian doctrine. How it spread, its vitality and the length it continued gave it the outer appearance of a new religion. People that saw the rise of it saw it was not a denial. It was an adaption and misuse of Christianity.

Comparing it to other heresies, there is difference between it and them (but not all), it did not arise within the Church. The prime heretic, Mohammed, unlike other prime heretics, was not a Catholic nor did he have the doctrine at his beginning: he was pagan. Nevertheless, what he taught was the oversimplified Catholic doctrine. He was surrounded by Catholics, he lived in the Catholic frontier, and he traveled in Catholic areas. This doctrine inspired him in Mohammedanism. Of course he was familiar with the degraded idolaters of the Arabian desert, which the Romans did not see fit to conquer.

Strangly enough, he did not take much of the pagan ideas that he was born with. His preaching and doctrine was a group of ideas that were most definitely peculiar to the Catholic Church, these ideas distinguished it from the Greek and Roman civilizations it later conquered. The foundation of it was Catholic doctrine: unity and omnipotence of God. These attributes of God he took from Catholic doctrine: personal nature, all-goodness, timelessness, providence, His creative powers are the origin of all things, and His sustenance of all things by his power alone.

This also included the good and evil spirits and angels, the evil spirits in rebellion against God is part of his teaching, with a chief evil spirit, just as Catholic doctrine explains.

On the human side, too, immortality of the soul, responsibility for actions in this life, and the consequent doctrine of punishment and reward after death.

I have to get back to work, but I’ll write more later.[/quote]

You do seem to make a very good point. There is indeed great similarity between the two religions. I do not find it surprising, however, because I believe that both are messengers of the One and only same God, and although the religions might have minor differences here and there, the basic messages from both are the same, and you did a good job of outlining them.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.) [/quote]

This all fabulous, but just because you say something does not mean it is true.[/quote]

LOL

How 'bout that…

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.) [/quote]

This all fabulous, but just because you say something does not mean it is true.[/quote]

LOL

How 'bout that…
[/quote]

:wink:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.) [/quote]

This all fabulous, but just because you say something does not mean it is true.[/quote]

LOL

How 'bout that…
[/quote]

Yea well I guess you can always argue about it that way by just disbelieving and ignoring anything and everything I have to say. Even if you choose to do so, still I think it won’t hurt to enlighten yourself a bit more about the topic of Islam and religion in general. When the day comes for what I said previously about the return of Jesus n all, I’d hate to say what Alfred always tells Batman (Bruce Wayne) in the dark knight: I did bloody tell you so. Maybe then you’d believe …

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]He is quite unimpressed with your opinion. (or mine)
[/quote]

Oh, did God tell you that? So now God speaks to you and to disagree with Tribulus is to disagree with God? Well, meet the prophet of T-Nation!!

Let us open up the Platitudes and tuck you neatly in between Deuteronomy and Numbers!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
[/quote]

For a supposed scholar, you seem incredibly careless. You mean between Numbers and Deuteronomy? Cause that’s their order in the Pentateuch/Torah; not vice versa. Kamui never makes mistakes like that, and he is an ACTUAL philosopher, not someone just trolling for attention.

[quote]

For a supposed scholar, you seem incredibly careless. You mean between Numbers and Deuteronomy? Cause that’s their order in the Pentateuch/Torah; not vice versa. Kamui never makes mistakes like that, and he is an ACTUAL philosopher, not someone just trolling for attention.[/quote]

Oh, something tell me that i’m not “professional” enough to discuss, say, the “God of Spinoza” with him.

Oh, did God tell you that? So now God speaks to you and to disagree with Tiribulus is to disagree with God? Well, meet the prophet of T-Nation!!
Let us open up the Platitudes and tuck you neatly in between Deuteronomy and Numbers!!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!![/quote]He told you that too and you are no prophet either. http://nasb.scripturetext.com/isaiah/40.htm You would’ve loved church today. A Red Wings Cup parade has nothing on the way we celebrate our conquering king and gracious master. That’s TRUE freedom ya know. Slavery to righteousness is freedom from the law of sin and death. Everybody has a master. Yours is sin. Mine was too. How well I remember. Of course I didn’t know it then, just like you don’t know it now. That’s why I’m tellin ya see. Somebody told me. That’s how it works. If He moves in your heart like He did mine you’ll be free too. I will praise His mercy and love. If you continue in this hard hearted rebellion? I will have sorrow but praise His justice and judgement. Either way He wins. He always does and already has.

[quote]kamui wrote:

No doubt, you can explain philosophy very well and have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you a doctor of philosophy?

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

No doubt, you can explain philosophy very well and have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you a doctor of philosophy?[/quote]

I have a Master’s degree in philosophy and another one in cultural anthropology. But i don’t know if a french Master is the same thing than an american Master.

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

No doubt, you can explain philosophy very well and have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you a doctor of philosophy?[/quote]

I have a Master’s degree in philosophy and another one in cultural anthropology. But i don’t know if a french Master is the same thing than an american Master.
[/quote]

It holds the same significance. The American higher education system was modeled after the education systems in Europe, so the degrees offered are roughly the same.

And you should have worded your question better Fletch :slight_smile: I am a doctor of philosophy, but my PhD is in Physics. My knowledge of philosophy as a subject comes entirely from a 100 level philosophy course that I took in 1989. “Do you have a PhD or other doctorate in philosophy” would have been better.

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

No doubt, you can explain philosophy very well and have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you a doctor of philosophy?[/quote]

I have a Master’s degree in philosophy and another one in cultural anthropology. But i don’t know if a french Master is the same thing than an american Master.
[/quote]

It holds the same significance. The American higher education system was modeled after the education systems in Europe, so the degrees offered are roughly the same.

And you should have worded your question better Fletch :slight_smile: I am a doctor of philosophy, but my PhD is in Physics. My knowledge of philosophy as a subject comes entirely from a 100 level philosophy course that I took in 1989. “Do you have a PhD or other doctorate in philosophy” would have been better.[/quote]

Yeah. I noticed that when I looked back. That’s what I get for making a drive by post lol.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

Yeah. I noticed that when I looked back. That’s what I get for making a drive by post lol.[/quote]

I do it all the time because of my relatively bad english skills. Usually I can catch them after proof reading to keep myself from looking too stupid.

I will have to be honest and confess that I have no education in anything. Not even high school. Compared to some of you guys I’m sure have read much less. I HAVE learned though that it all reduces to the same thing. Kamui espouses a remarkable system of thought that asks all the right questions and obviously in my view, in the end provides all the wrong answers. I had all the right answers before I understood what the questions were.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I will have to be honest and confess that I have no education in anything. Not even high school. Compared to some of you guys I’m sure have read much less. I HAVE learned though that it all reduces to the same thing. Kamui espouses a remarkable system of thought that asks all the right questions and obviously in my view, in the end provides all the wrong answers. I had all the right answers before I understood what the questions were.[/quote]

As loquacious and eloquent as you are, I would’ve sworn you had a degree in theology or english or possibly one of the other liberal arts.

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:

No doubt, you can explain philosophy very well and have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but if you don’t mind me asking, are you a doctor of philosophy?[/quote]

I have a Master’s degree in philosophy and another one in cultural anthropology. But i don’t know if a french Master is the same thing than an american Master.
[/quote]

It holds the same significance. The American higher education system was modeled after the education systems in Europe, so the degrees offered are roughly the same.

And you should have worded your question better Fletch :slight_smile: I am a doctor of philosophy, but my PhD is in Physics. My knowledge of philosophy as a subject comes entirely from a 100 level philosophy course that I took in 1989. “Do you have a PhD or other doctorate in philosophy” would have been better.[/quote]

I believe your philosophy is properly called the natural philosophy.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I will have to be honest and confess that I have no education in anything. Not even high school. Compared to some of you guys I’m sure have read much less. I HAVE learned though that it all reduces to the same thing. Kamui espouses a remarkable system of thought that asks all the right questions and obviously in my view, in the end provides all the wrong answers. I had all the right answers before I understood what the questions were.[/quote]

As loquacious and eloquent as you are, I would’ve sworn you had a degree in theology or english or possibly one of the other liberal arts. [/quote]

No he just listens to a lot of black preachers. :wink:

I’m sorry to disappoint you Fletch. I flunked 8th grade and dropped out in 10th which should have been 11th. Actually it’s a miracle I lived to see my 20th birthday.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< No he just listens to a lot of black preachers. ;)[/quote]Very cute Christopher. =] Like this little guy again. You are correct though.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’m sorry to disappoint you Fletch. I flunked 8th grade and dropped out in 10th which should have been 11th. Actually it’s a miracle I lived to see my 20th birthday.[/quote]

I’m not disappointed. I’m impressed! I’m sure my vocabulary would’ve gone to the crapper without formal education. Sounds like you had a crazy life at one point.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

I believe your philosophy is properly called the natural philosophy. [/quote]

Not really. The use of the term “philosophy” in the PhD degree is just a throwback to the old days when philosophy and science were one and the same. In the past 200 years or so the two have
diverged into two very separate fields with different goals and methodologies for reaching those goals. Natural philosophy can be considered a precursor to modern sciences like physics, but to say they are the same is like saying that Morlocks are humans.