[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< I’ve studied philosophy for over 30 years (one of my degrees). Carnap, Wittgenstein, Russell, Rawls…pretty much any of these ‘gents’. None of them can compare to the intellectual depth and clarity of exposition embodied in the work of Ms. Rand.
So, I don’t bother arguing with non-professionals about these topics; no point. >>>>[/quote]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< I’ve studied philosophy for over 30 years (one of my degrees). Carnap, Wittgenstein, Russell, Rawls…pretty much any of these ‘gents’. None of them can compare to the intellectual depth and clarity of exposition embodied in the work of Ms. Rand.
So, I don’t bother arguing with non-professionals about these topics; no point. >>>>[/quote]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
[/quote]
Indeed.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
Headhunter! Check out the epistemology and metaphysics threads! There’s good stuff from non-religious and religious alike. [/quote]I tried that, but he doesn’t want to see his girlfriend disrobed and humiliated so he just pops in and does finger exercises with the L and O keys every so often accompanied by Sesame Street pictures. Apparently disciples of Rand see this as persuasive. Try as I might I just can’t seem to get it.
[/quote]
I so don’t get it. I see him post some bright stuff every once in a while, and then religion comes up and I don’t know what happens![/quote]
I’ve studied philosophy for over 30 years (one of my degrees). Carnap, Wittgenstein, Russell, Rawls…pretty much any of these ‘gents’. None of them can compare to the intellectual depth and clarity of exposition embodied in the work of Ms. Rand.
So, I don’t bother arguing with non-professionals about these topics; no point.
Instead, I would much rather discuss a God who decides that his creation (Man) is evil, so the solution is to be reborn as your own son and then let yourself be tortured to death. That sets a shining example of how humans should act – let yourself be tortured to death for the benefit of evil people.
[/quote]
What’s the philosophy you adhere to? I might’ve missed it on the forums, but I don’t recall much more than you just bashing the religious without much logical rebuttal. [/quote]
I’m an Objectivist, though I do subscribe to subjective knowledge, provided that one accepts that said knowledge can only be considered knowledge for yourself. The only disagreement I have with Ms. Rand is in that regard. God has spoken to me on three occasions and I consider this as knowledge: (1) God said ‘THE SPIRIT’, (2) God said ‘VISHNU’ (3) God told me to go and adopt a little girl from China. I did.
Here is her picture.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< I’ve studied philosophy for over 30 years (one of my degrees). Carnap, Wittgenstein, Russell, Rawls…pretty much any of these ‘gents’. None of them can compare to the intellectual depth and clarity of exposition embodied in the work of Ms. Rand.
So, I don’t bother arguing with non-professionals about these topics; no point. >>>>[/quote]
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
[/quote]
I am so overwhelmed by the brilliance of your response!
I know you didn’t really just say that
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know you didn’t really just say that[/quote]
So when are ya comin to church with me? You can bring your adopted little girl too. The whole family if they fit in my car. There will only be the Holy Spirit of the one true and living God there though and no vishnu. They’re up the road Livonia.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
God has spoken to me on three occasions and I consider this as knowledge: (1) God said ‘THE SPIRIT’, (2) God said ‘VISHNU’ (3) God told me to go and adopt a little girl from China.
[/quote]
You’ll find that in the eyes of most on this board, your experiences mean nothing.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
God has spoken to me on three occasions and I consider this as knowledge: (1) God said ‘THE SPIRIT’, (2) God said ‘VISHNU’ (3) God told me to go and adopt a little girl from China.
[/quote]
You’ll find that in the eyes of most on this board, your experiences mean nothing.[/quote]
Right. When one prefers some fantasyland to the real world, experience here counts for little.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
God has spoken to me on three occasions and I consider this as knowledge: (1) God said ‘THE SPIRIT’, (2) God said ‘VISHNU’ (3) God told me to go and adopt a little girl from China.
[/quote]
You’ll find that in the eyes of most on this board, your experiences mean nothing.[/quote]
Right. When one prefers some fantasyland to the real world, experience here counts for little.
[/quote]
Pretty much.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
God has spoken to me on three occasions and I consider this as knowledge: (1) God said ‘THE SPIRIT’, (2) God said ‘VISHNU’ (3) God told me to go and adopt a little girl from China.
[/quote]
You’ll find that in the eyes of most on this board, your experiences mean nothing.[/quote]
Right. When one prefers some fantasyland to the real world, experience here counts for little.
[/quote]Nonsense. Satan is fully capable of impressive supernatural trickery. ESPECIALLY deceptive communication. Jesus Himself said he’s been a liar from the beginning and that he is the father of lies. How can we tell the difference? Satan will never lead somebody to obey the scriptures and glorify Jesus. the only begotten Son of the most high God. He may lead them to all the bleeding heart charity and apparent goodness and generosity anybody could ever imagine. That’s one of his favorite tactics. The Word of God is the measure of everything, especially experience. The devil will put up with anything EXCEPT seeing his faithful snatched from him by conversion to Christ.
He’ll let them give everything to the poor or sacrifice their own lives in Jihad. He’ll teach them how. As long as they do not repent and believe the gospel. As I’ve said in the past. He’ll even take them to church. Pick them up and drive. Even my church. While he has them trusting in every religious sentimentality literally in THE book instead of their own transformed heart as evidence of their conversion in Christ.
The retention of souls lost in sin is his one and only goal. He’ll gladly give somebody else the credit and reward his champions of wickedness with health, happiness, pleasure and prosperity in this life. They can found orphanages, picket abortion clinics and campaign for family values for all he cares. As long as he gets to see them damned without Christ. However. NOTHING is more useful to him than individuals like some we have around here who DO claim be Christians and reproach and dishonor His holy name with their flagrantly filthy lives and mouths and or modernistic heretical doctrine. They are his prized gold medalists. His elite overachievers of evil. Nothing and nobody pleases him more.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
God has spoken to me on three occasions and I consider this as knowledge: (1) God said ‘THE SPIRIT’, (2) God said ‘VISHNU’ (3) God told me to go and adopt a little girl from China.
[/quote]
You’ll find that in the eyes of most on this board, your experiences mean nothing.[/quote]
Right. When one prefers some fantasyland to the real world, experience here counts for little.
[/quote]Nonsense. Satan is fully capable of impressive supernatural trickery. ESPECIALLY deceptive communication. Jesus Himself said he’s been a liar from the beginning and that he is the father of lies. How can we tell the difference? Satan will never lead somebody to obey the scriptures and glorify Jesus. the only begotten Son of the most high God. He may lead them to all the bleeding heart charity and apparent goodness and generosity anybody could ever imagine. That’s one of his favorite tactics. The Word of God is the measure of everything, especially experience. The devil will put up with anything EXCEPT seeing his faithful snatched from him by conversion to Christ.
He’ll let them give everything to the poor or sacrifice their own lives in Jihad. He’ll teach them how. As long as they do not repent and believe the gospel. As I’ve said in the past. He’ll even take them to church. Pick them up and drive. Even my church. While he has them trusting in every religious sentimentality literally in THE book instead of their own transformed heart as evidence of their conversion in Christ.
The retention of souls lost in sin is his one and only goal. He’ll gladly give somebody else the credit and reward his champions of wickedness with health, happiness, pleasure and prosperity in this life. They can found orphanages, picket abortion clinics and campaign for family values for all he cares. As long as he gets to see them damned without Christ. However. NOTHING is more useful to him than individuals like some we have around here who DO claim be Christians and reproach and dishonor His holy name with their flagrantly filthy lives and mouths and or modernistic heretical doctrine. They are his prized gold medalists. His elite overachievers of evil. Nothing and nobody pleases him more.[/quote]
Well, I must say that I admire the dedication it took to type all that out. 
However, if God created me to form concepts by abstraction from my percepts, then punishes me with hellfire and damnation because I don’t perceive any reason to form the Christian concept of Jesus as my savior, I guess I’ll have to be punished.
Is this kind of like punishing people because they are ignorant, like Adam and Eve?
[quote]clip11 wrote:
I grew up in a christian household. My denomination was Church of God in Christ, the largest african-american pentecostal denomination in the world. Apart of this doctrine was the teaching that all non-believers in christianity are doomed to eternal torment in hell. Now, every christian i’ve ever ran across seem to have no problem with this and seem to believe that the person in question “chooses” to go to hell. I don’t want to go off on a tangent, so I won’t get into why I think that’s nonsense. But my question is, what if christians are wrong, compared to say muslims.
In Islam, they believe christians are wrong and hell bound. So suppose the christian in question dies and in the afterlife, finds out he was wrong all along and that Islam was the correct path. He’s standing in front of Allah who is ready to throw him into hell’s fiery pits. The christian explains that he didn’t know Allah was the true God and it isn’t fair that Allah should send them to hell, especially after he allowed Satan (they have satan in Islam) to deceive them into thinking christianity was the right path. Allah says he revealed himself in his infallible, holy word, the quran! The christian responds that it’s no way he could’ve known the quran was the infallible word of God.
The christian asks why didn’t Allah show himself and prove to people he is the real God, and Islam is his true religion. Allah says he must remain hidden, otherwise it’d violate people’s free will. Allah mentions the time 30 years ago when the christian was standing at the bus stop and a muslim came up to him and tried to convince him to convert to islam and invite him to the mosque, so the claim could be made that he “heard the truth”. The christian explains that he grew up in a christian household and christianity was all he knew to be correct and that he was thoroughly convinced that the muslim was wrong.
Allah says it doesn’t matter, and that he should’ve just had blind faith and believed. Even though the christian had no reason at all to change his beliefs on the spot or think islam was the real religion. Allah tells the christian “im not sending you to hell you sent yourself off to hell you go!” and throws him into the fiery pits.
The question must be asked, would any christian think Allah would be perfectly just for casting them into hell for having the wrong belief, even when Allah made no effort to make himself known that he was the true God, except thru a book a certain group of people claim to be his word?
If they would not believe Allah to be just for doing this to them, then why do they believe the Christian God is correct for doing this to non-christians, based on these exact same standards?[/quote]
@ OP …
I am a Muslim, and yes you are correct. We do believe that all non-Muslims will be punished eternally in hell. Now I know that many of you do not exactly have the subject of religion as a priority in your lives, but hear me out. This life we are currently living, regardless of how "long"it will be, will eventually come to an end. Whether that be in 20, 50, or 70 years, God knows. But as Muslims and Christians, we both agree that there is life after death and we both believe in the day of judgement, heaven, and hell. Please take the time to dig a bit deeper into this issue and into Islam, as this could save you from eternal punishment. Even if you’re laughing or rolling your eyes right now at this, know that 5-10 minutes of reading can’t possibly hurt you in any way. BTW, we Muslims believe in Moses, Jesus, and David among many others that they are all the messengers of God. We have a lot more in common than some people think.
[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
[quote]clip11 wrote:
I grew up in a christian household. My denomination was Church of God in Christ, the largest african-american pentecostal denomination in the world. Apart of this doctrine was the teaching that all non-believers in christianity are doomed to eternal torment in hell. Now, every christian i’ve ever ran across seem to have no problem with this and seem to believe that the person in question “chooses” to go to hell. I don’t want to go off on a tangent, so I won’t get into why I think that’s nonsense. But my question is, what if christians are wrong, compared to say muslims.
In Islam, they believe christians are wrong and hell bound. So suppose the christian in question dies and in the afterlife, finds out he was wrong all along and that Islam was the correct path. He’s standing in front of Allah who is ready to throw him into hell’s fiery pits. The christian explains that he didn’t know Allah was the true God and it isn’t fair that Allah should send them to hell, especially after he allowed Satan (they have satan in Islam) to deceive them into thinking christianity was the right path. Allah says he revealed himself in his infallible, holy word, the quran! The christian responds that it’s no way he could’ve known the quran was the infallible word of God.
The christian asks why didn’t Allah show himself and prove to people he is the real God, and Islam is his true religion. Allah says he must remain hidden, otherwise it’d violate people’s free will. Allah mentions the time 30 years ago when the christian was standing at the bus stop and a muslim came up to him and tried to convince him to convert to islam and invite him to the mosque, so the claim could be made that he “heard the truth”. The christian explains that he grew up in a christian household and christianity was all he knew to be correct and that he was thoroughly convinced that the muslim was wrong.
Allah says it doesn’t matter, and that he should’ve just had blind faith and believed. Even though the christian had no reason at all to change his beliefs on the spot or think islam was the real religion. Allah tells the christian “im not sending you to hell you sent yourself off to hell you go!” and throws him into the fiery pits.
The question must be asked, would any christian think Allah would be perfectly just for casting them into hell for having the wrong belief, even when Allah made no effort to make himself known that he was the true God, except thru a book a certain group of people claim to be his word?
If they would not believe Allah to be just for doing this to them, then why do they believe the Christian God is correct for doing this to non-christians, based on these exact same standards?[/quote]
@ OP …
I am a Muslim, and yes you are correct. We do believe that all non-Muslims will be punished eternally in hell. Now I know that many of you do not exactly have the subject of religion as a priority in your lives, but hear me out. This life we are currently living, regardless of how "long"it will be, will eventually come to an end. Whether that be in 20, 50, or 70 years, God knows. But as Muslims and Christians, we both agree that there is life after death and we both believe in the day of judgement, heaven, and hell. Please take the time to dig a bit deeper into this issue and into Islam, as this could save you from eternal punishment. Even if you’re laughing or rolling your eyes right now at this, know that 5-10 minutes of reading can’t possibly hurt you in any way. BTW, we Muslims believe in Moses, Jesus, and David among many others that they are all the messengers of God. We have a lot more in common than some people think.
[/quote]
Yet you reject the incarnation.
[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
[quote]clip11 wrote:
I grew up in a christian household. My denomination was Church of God in Christ, the largest african-american pentecostal denomination in the world. Apart of this doctrine was the teaching that all non-believers in christianity are doomed to eternal torment in hell. Now, every christian i’ve ever ran across seem to have no problem with this and seem to believe that the person in question “chooses” to go to hell. I don’t want to go off on a tangent, so I won’t get into why I think that’s nonsense. But my question is, what if christians are wrong, compared to say muslims.
In Islam, they believe christians are wrong and hell bound. So suppose the christian in question dies and in the afterlife, finds out he was wrong all along and that Islam was the correct path. He’s standing in front of Allah who is ready to throw him into hell’s fiery pits. The christian explains that he didn’t know Allah was the true God and it isn’t fair that Allah should send them to hell, especially after he allowed Satan (they have satan in Islam) to deceive them into thinking christianity was the right path. Allah says he revealed himself in his infallible, holy word, the quran! The christian responds that it’s no way he could’ve known the quran was the infallible word of God.
The christian asks why didn’t Allah show himself and prove to people he is the real God, and Islam is his true religion. Allah says he must remain hidden, otherwise it’d violate people’s free will. Allah mentions the time 30 years ago when the christian was standing at the bus stop and a muslim came up to him and tried to convince him to convert to islam and invite him to the mosque, so the claim could be made that he “heard the truth”. The christian explains that he grew up in a christian household and christianity was all he knew to be correct and that he was thoroughly convinced that the muslim was wrong.
Allah says it doesn’t matter, and that he should’ve just had blind faith and believed. Even though the christian had no reason at all to change his beliefs on the spot or think islam was the real religion. Allah tells the christian “im not sending you to hell you sent yourself off to hell you go!” and throws him into the fiery pits.
The question must be asked, would any christian think Allah would be perfectly just for casting them into hell for having the wrong belief, even when Allah made no effort to make himself known that he was the true God, except thru a book a certain group of people claim to be his word?
If they would not believe Allah to be just for doing this to them, then why do they believe the Christian God is correct for doing this to non-christians, based on these exact same standards?[/quote]
@ OP …
I am a Muslim, and yes you are correct. We do believe that all non-Muslims will be punished eternally in hell. Now I know that many of you do not exactly have the subject of religion as a priority in your lives, but hear me out. This life we are currently living, regardless of how "long"it will be, will eventually come to an end. Whether that be in 20, 50, or 70 years, God knows. But as Muslims and Christians, we both agree that there is life after death and we both believe in the day of judgement, heaven, and hell. Please take the time to dig a bit deeper into this issue and into Islam, as this could save you from eternal punishment. Even if you’re laughing or rolling your eyes right now at this, know that 5-10 minutes of reading can’t possibly hurt you in any way. BTW, we Muslims believe in Moses, Jesus, and David among many others that they are all the messengers of God. We have a lot more in common than some people think.
[/quote]
And you guys think that I’M nuts…“Believe in my version of you’re going to burnnnnnn!!!”
I recently re-read in Tacitus’ Annals wherein he does describe briefly an historical Jesus. So, since he did exist, I’d have to conclude that he’d be pretty pissed off at this stuff.
Yet you reject the incarnation.
[/quote]
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.)
[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< However, if God created me to form concepts by abstraction from my percepts, >>>[/quote]God created you like everyone and everything else. For HIS glory. You WILL deliver. You are already. [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< then punishes me with hellfire and damnation because I don’t perceive any reason to form the Christian concept of Jesus as my savior, >>>[/quote]Oh but you do. You can’t help it. He says so. There is more comprehensive and conclusive evidence of His truth than for any other class or specimen of propositional data that there is or ever could be. In fact the utter certainty of His truth is itself the source and origin of absolutely all else, including your criminal attempts to escape it. See, the God I love and serve is not simply the largest and grooviest object of the insolent probing and poking investigations of sinful autonomous man. He does not fit into our laboratories, under our microscopes, in our petri dishes or between our ears at all…
He is Himself the ground of all being and knowledge without whom your pitiful pop gun objections could not even be formed. You use His own gifts of intellect and logic against Him like a bomber pilot attacking his own carrier in an attempt to deny that she is where you came from and hence your source of fuel and safety. You’d rather fly aimlessly about until you crash to your death than acknowledge your utter dependence upon your original launching point.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< I guess I’ll have to be punished. >>>[/quote]If you persist in this unholy path of self exalting rebellion? Yes you will. And by the judgement of a holy and righteous creator God whose flawless justice will be glorified in your damnation. It cannot be otherwise.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< Is this kind of like punishing people because they are ignorant, like Adam and Eve?[/quote]Like I say. You really don’t know a thing about Christianity dude. He is God and you are not. He is quite unimpressed with your opinion. (or mine)
EDIT: [quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< And you guys think that I’M nuts… >>>[/quote]I don’t think your nuts any more than I think you’re stupid. I think you’re a sinner. Those are not in any way the same thing.[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< So, since he (Jesus) did exist, I’d have to conclude that he’d be pretty pissed off at this stuff.[/quote]Then HE’D have to be nuts since He unequivocally stated that there were two kings of people. Those redeemed in Him and those damned without Him. Your conclusions are not improving. How bout church? You can come and be loved on by a large room full of Jesus people who don’t even know you. That’s a serious statement I assure you. When they come to find out what an intractable God hating butthead you like to be they’ll love you even more. =]
[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.) [/quote]
This all fabulous, but just because you say something does not mean it is true.
Mohammedanism was a heresy. Once this is grasped, then I can go further. But, we’ll start with point one.
Mohammedanism did not start out as a pagan contrast to the Church or an alien enemy. It was a mere perversion of Christian doctrine. How it spread, its vitality and the length it continued gave it the outer appearance of a new religion. People that saw the rise of it saw it was not a denial. It was an adaption and misuse of Christianity.
Comparing it to other heresies, there is difference between it and them (but not all), it did not arise within the Church. The prime heretic, Mohammed, unlike other prime heretics, was not a Catholic nor did he have the doctrine at his beginning: he was pagan. Nevertheless, what he taught was the oversimplified Catholic doctrine. He was surrounded by Catholics, he lived in the Catholic frontier, and he traveled in Catholic areas. This doctrine inspired him in Mohammedanism. Of course he was familiar with the degraded idolaters of the Arabian desert, which the Romans did not see fit to conquer.
Strangly enough, he did not take much of the pagan ideas that he was born with. His preaching and doctrine was a group of ideas that were most definitely peculiar to the Catholic Church, these ideas distinguished it from the Greek and Roman civilizations it later conquered. The foundation of it was Catholic doctrine: unity and omnipotence of God. These attributes of God he took from Catholic doctrine: personal nature, all-goodness, timelessness, providence, His creative powers are the origin of all things, and His sustenance of all things by his power alone.
This also included the good and evil spirits and angels, the evil spirits in rebellion against God is part of his teaching, with a chief evil spirit, just as Catholic doctrine explains.
On the human side, too, immortality of the soul, responsibility for actions in this life, and the consequent doctrine of punishment and reward after death.
I have to get back to work, but I’ll write more later.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]NVRGIVEUP wrote:
I have no idea what that means but a google search gave me the idea that it is related to the divine person of Jesus. Muslims believe that Jesus was a messenger of God ONLY, not his son. God does not need a son. We also believe that Jesus was never crucified. The day will come when Jesus will be back to show everyone that the Jews never really killed him, and that Christians did not know the truth of what happened. He will then rule the entire world (you don’t have to believe all this, it’s according to my beliefs as a Muslim.) [/quote]
This all fabulous, but just because you say something does not mean it is true.
Mohammedanism was a heresy. Once this is grasped, then I can go further. But, we’ll start with point one.
Mohammedanism did not start out as a pagan contrast to the Church or an alien enemy. It was a mere perversion of Christian doctrine. How it spread, its vitality and the length it continued gave it the outer appearance of a new religion. People that saw the rise of it saw it was not a denial. It was an adaption and misuse of Christianity.
Comparing it to other heresies, there is difference between it and them (but not all), it did not arise within the Church. The prime heretic, Mohammed, unlike other prime heretics, was not a Catholic nor did he have the doctrine at his beginning: he was pagan. Nevertheless, what he taught was the oversimplified Catholic doctrine. He was surrounded by Catholics, he lived in the Catholic frontier, and he traveled in Catholic areas. This doctrine inspired him in Mohammedanism. Of course he was familiar with the degraded idolaters of the Arabian desert, which the Romans did not see fit to conquer.
Strangly enough, he did not take much of the pagan ideas that he was born with. His preaching and doctrine was a group of ideas that were most definitely peculiar to the Catholic Church, these ideas distinguished it from the Greek and Roman civilizations it later conquered. The foundation of it was Catholic doctrine: unity and omnipotence of God. These attributes of God he took from Catholic doctrine: personal nature, all-goodness, timelessness, providence, His creative powers are the origin of all things, and His sustenance of all things by his power alone.
This also included the good and evil spirits and angels, the evil spirits in rebellion against God is part of his teaching, with a chief evil spirit, just as Catholic doctrine explains.
On the human side, too, immortality of the soul, responsibility for actions in this life, and the consequent doctrine of punishment and reward after death.
I have to get back to work, but I’ll write more later.[/quote]
This sounds very similar to the argument that Christianity is hellenized Judaism and came to be because of weakened authority of the Jewish churches from the Romans burning down their main temple. As Christianity was introduced to more places, it refined its theology to address the arguments of the pagans and even incorporated some of its mythology.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]He is quite unimpressed with your opinion. (or mine)
[/quote]
Oh, did God tell you that? So now God speaks to you and to disagree with Tribulus is to disagree with God? Well, meet the prophet of T-Nation!!
Let us open up the Platitudes and tuck you neatly in between Deuteronomy and Numbers!!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
