I’ve been following Christian Thibaudeau’s “OVT Mutaition Series Program” for a while and have been taking most of the same supplements. However he lists one supplement “Biotest M” which improved the Testosterone to estrogen /progesterone ratio, not the Metabolic Protein “M”
Anyone know where I can find this “M”? Below is a picture that shows it on top of the RED KAT box.
Thanks
[quote]jbodzin wrote:
I’ve been following Christian Thibaudeau’s “OVT Mutaition Series Program” for a while and have been taking most of the same supplements. However he lists one supplement “Biotest M” which improved the Testosterone to estrogen /progesterone ratio, not the Metabolic Protein “M”
Anyone know where I can find this “M”? Below is a picture that shows it on top of the RED KAT box.
Thanks
[/quote]
They’ve discontinued it. The main ingredient in it was vitex agnus castus, which is now in Alpha Male. Interestingly, at the time they were selling M, they were marketing it as an estrogen blocker (with the vitex being the main active ingredient). Now, if you read the writeup on the newest version of Alpha Male, they mention that vitex boosts T by stimulating leutinizing hormone, but no more claims are made about its blocking estrogen. I think it’s been found to not really be an estrogen blocker at all, but nonethless to be a T-booster, like tribulus.
Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
I have actually been using “M” for a couple of weeks now.
I got it on special for half price from my local supplement store. I wondered why it was so cheap.
I’m using it as an anti-estrogen and I looked up the agnus ingeredient and it apparently does help with estrogen blocking.
So Alpha Male isn’t an estrogen blocker?
Does Biotest have an estrogen blocker?
Thanks
In the Super Concentrated Alpha Male thread, Tim Patterson says this:
[quote]No, M won’t be back. But something very, very cool is about to be released that’s much better. It’s called REZ-V.
REZ-V is an ER antagonist.
REZ-V is an anti-aromatase.
And, REZ-V acts as a potent anticancer agent for the prostate![/quote]
I loved my M, but this sounds much better. The REZ-V seems to imply “resveratrol” which is another name for the trihydroxystilbene in M.
“Vitex also works as [a Luteinizing-hormone secretagogue], but it also acts as an anti-progesterone and anti-prolactin agent, lowering progesterone and prolactin. Progesterone and prolactin are particularly nasty hormones, in that they cause ? much more than estrogen ? storage of body fat and mental depression. Prolactin can even cause lactation in men. And, by lowering progesterone and prolactin ? just like lowering estrogen ? you’ll increase Testosterone through various feedback mechanisms.”
I think I read somewhere they’re gonna bring back a new version of M which has only the vitex without the other stuff. I’m not sure.
[quote]Natural29 wrote:
I have actually been using “M” for a couple of weeks now.
I got it on special for half price from my local supplement store. I wondered why it was so cheap.
I’m using it as an anti-estrogen and I looked up the agnus ingeredient and it apparently does help with estrogen blocking.
So Alpha Male isn’t an estrogen blocker?
Does Biotest have an estrogen blocker?
Thanks[/quote]
Yeah, there had been lots of speculation when it was first hitting the bodybuilding supplement market that it might be an anti-E, and that’s what it was marketed as for a while (with Biotest being the first to do so, I believe). But I think that in the real world the anti-E hypothesis for vitex didn’t really pan out . . . .
"The REZ-V seems to imply “resveratrol”
Will this be Biotest’s new anti-estrogen and if so how much and when is it available?
Thanks
I’d actually love to hear Tim’s (or anyone from Biotest/T-Nation) thoughts on vitex as an anti-E. Oh, and any more color that can be given on Rez-V would be great too. 
[quote]Damici wrote:
I’d actually love to hear Tim’s (or anyone from Biotest/T-Nation) thoughts on vitex as an anti-E. Oh, and any more color that can be given on Rez-V would be great too. ;)[/quote]
I’d love to hear about these to supplements as well.
Have you ever tried 6-OXO by ErgoPharm?
From what I’ve read on other sites, when used as a standalone supplement, some nasty side effects can occur.
Such as flu like symptoms, cotton mouth, and other side effects.
This sounds a little bit too harsh for my liking.
If Rez-V works as a strong
Anti-Estrogen w/o negative side effects on the body, I might just have to stick to Biotest.
What about you?
[quote]Natural29 wrote:
Damici wrote:
I’d actually love to hear Tim’s (or anyone from Biotest/T-Nation) thoughts on vitex as an anti-E. Oh, and any more color that can be given on Rez-V would be great too.
I’d love to hear about these to supplements as well.
Have you ever tried 6-OXO by ErgoPharm?
From what I’ve read on other sites, when used as a standalone supplement, some nasty side effects can occur.
Such as flu like symptoms, cotton mouth, and other side effects.
This sounds a little bit too harsh for my liking.
If Rez-V works as a strong
Anti-Estrogen w/o negative side effects on the body, I might just have to stick to Biotest.
What about you?
[/quote]
6oxo worked great for me.
[quote]yorik wrote:
In the Super Concentrated Alpha Male thread, Tim Patterson says this:
No, M won’t be back. But something very, very cool is about to be released that’s much better. It’s called REZ-V.
REZ-V is an ER antagonist.
REZ-V is an anti-aromatase.
And, REZ-V acts as a potent anticancer agent for the prostate!
I loved my M, but this sounds much better. The REZ-V seems to imply “resveratrol” which is another name for the trihydroxystilbene in M.
[/quote]
Cool! I’ve been supplementing with resveratrol for about a year and a half specifically for its anti-prostate cancer properties. That’s great news if it has even more potential benefits.