There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?[/quote]
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?[/quote]
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine[/quote]
That doesn’t prove your idea one bit.That is a 2012 law,nor was this a law to replace Ukrainian with Russian, just add Russian to a regional language. Also everyone already speaks Russian and it common to switch both languages in any discussion. Nor was there ever any riots when these laws were being started. These riots started over in Nov 2013, over Ukraine not getting closer with E.U. which later blew up when college students got attacked by the berkut police. I repeat do you even Ukraine?
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?[/quote]
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine[/quote]
That doesn’t prove your idea one bit.That is a 2012 law,nor was this a law to replace Ukrainian with Russian, just add Russian to a regional language. Also everyone already speaks Russian and it common to switch both languages in any discussion. Nor was there ever any riots when these laws were being started. These riots started over in Nov 2013, over Ukraine not getting closer with E.U. which later blew up when college students got attacked by the berkut police. I repeat do you even Ukraine?
[/quote]
Do I even Ukraine? Huh? I’m not Ukrainian and I’ve never been to Ukraine.
I don’t think we’re in disagreement about what’s going on there. Our disagreement is one of interpretation. My historical perspective entails that almost all conflicts have a basis in ethno-nationalism or class conflict.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?[/quote]
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine[/quote]
That doesn’t prove your idea one bit.That is a 2012 law,nor was this a law to replace Ukrainian with Russian, just add Russian to a regional language. Also everyone already speaks Russian and it common to switch both languages in any discussion. Nor was there ever any riots when these laws were being started. These riots started over in Nov 2013, over Ukraine not getting closer with E.U. which later blew up when college students got attacked by the berkut police. I repeat do you even Ukraine?
[/quote]
Do I even Ukraine? Huh? I’m not Ukrainian and I’ve never been to Ukraine.
I don’t think we’re in disagreement about what’s going on there. Our disagreement is one of interpretation. My historical perspective entails that almost all conflicts have a basis in ethno-nationalism or class conflict.[/quote]
We are in a disagreement as you don’t use facts to argue, just some “interpretation” that you cooked up in your head, that has no basis on reality and your arguing with a Ukrainian about Ukraine. And I just told you how your theory on ethno nationalism is junk. It doesn’t apply here.
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?[/quote]
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine[/quote]
That doesn’t prove your idea one bit.That is a 2012 law,nor was this a law to replace Ukrainian with Russian, just add Russian to a regional language. Also everyone already speaks Russian and it common to switch both languages in any discussion. Nor was there ever any riots when these laws were being started. These riots started over in Nov 2013, over Ukraine not getting closer with E.U. which later blew up when college students got attacked by the berkut police. I repeat do you even Ukraine?
[/quote]
Do I even Ukraine? Huh? I’m not Ukrainian and I’ve never been to Ukraine.
I don’t think we’re in disagreement about what’s going on there. Our disagreement is one of interpretation. My historical perspective entails that almost all conflicts have a basis in ethno-nationalism or class conflict.[/quote]
We are in a disagreement as you don’t use facts to argue, just some “interpretation” that you cooked up in your head, that has no basis on reality and your arguing with a Ukrainian about Ukraine. And I just told you how your theory on ethno nationalism is junk. It doesn’t apply here. [/quote]
Actually you didn’t show that. You’re still arguing that there are many people of different ethnicities involved therefore the conflict has no ethno-nationalist basis. I explained why that is largely irrelevant and even gave demonstrative analogies but you’re back where you started.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
There was NO law to replace Ukrainian with Russian by Yanukovych. Where do you read your facts? Bro do you even Ukraine?[/quote]
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine[/quote]
That doesn’t prove your idea one bit.That is a 2012 law,nor was this a law to replace Ukrainian with Russian, just add Russian to a regional language. Also everyone already speaks Russian and it common to switch both languages in any discussion. Nor was there ever any riots when these laws were being started. These riots started over in Nov 2013, over Ukraine not getting closer with E.U. which later blew up when college students got attacked by the berkut police. I repeat do you even Ukraine?
[/quote]
Do I even Ukraine? Huh? I’m not Ukrainian and I’ve never been to Ukraine.
I don’t think we’re in disagreement about what’s going on there. Our disagreement is one of interpretation. My historical perspective entails that almost all conflicts have a basis in ethno-nationalism or class conflict.[/quote]
We are in a disagreement as you don’t use facts to argue, just some “interpretation” that you cooked up in your head, that has no basis on reality and your arguing with a Ukrainian about Ukraine. And I just told you how your theory on ethno nationalism is junk. It doesn’t apply here. [/quote]
Actually you didn’t show that. You’re still arguing that there are many people of different ethnicities involved therefore the conflict has no ethno-nationalist basis. I explained why that is largely irrelevant and even gave demonstrative analogies but you’re back where you started.[/quote]
You use some situation from ancient times about Hellenized Jews vs non Hellenized Jews. How does that demonstrate whats going on in Ukraine? Did they have a mafia don president, who used secret police to terrorize the population? Who pillaged the country’s bankroll? So they ethnically nationalistically grouped together to deal with Hellenized Mafia don? Your “demonstration” meant nothing. Then you use some law that doesn’t apply here, that wasn’t even said right, you said there was a law to replace Ukrainian with Russian. How can I believe anything you say when you don’t even have your facts straight about anything? How about this for a demo, people were sick of corruption, sick of having no future,then some law that offered them hope got canceled when the president chnaged his mind half way through and rebelled. Now go on the internet, look at the videos of people rioting and why they are and they all say that. And to top it off your telling a Ukrainian how it goes, when you probably couldn’t tell one thing about the country other then what the news told you recently.
Give the theories a break and work with researched facts.
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
Give the theories a break and work with researched facts. [/quote]
"During the 2009 and 2010 local elections in Galicia, the party(Svoboda) made significant gains and became a major force in local government. In the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary elections, Svoboda won its first seats in the Ukrainian Parliament, garnering 10.44% of the popular vote and the 4th most seats among national political parties; this transposed into 37 parliamentary seats. In October 2012, Svoboda joined a formal coalition with the centre-right Batkivshchyna and UDAR parties to form the parliament’s collective opposition, now a majority…
Voters from Western Ukraine and Central Ukraine tend to vote for pro-Western and pro-European general liberal national democrats with the Our Ukraine Blocs and Bloc Yulia Tymoshenko (now Batkivshchyna) as its frontrunners; UDAR replaced the Our Ukraine Bloc in the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election. Our Ukraine, a major national democratic force in Ukrainian politics in the early 21st century met with total failure since the 2010 Ukrainian local elections. While in Eastern Ukraine and Southern Ukraine pro-Russian parties get the vote. Since the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election Fatherland and UDAR cooperate officially with All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda”."
Facts like those?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
Give the theories a break and work with researched facts. [/quote]
"During the 2009 and 2010 local elections in Galicia, the party(Svoboda) made significant gains and became a major force in local government. In the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary elections, Svoboda won its first seats in the Ukrainian Parliament, garnering 10.44% of the popular vote and the 4th most seats among national political parties; this transposed into 37 parliamentary seats. In October 2012, Svoboda joined a formal coalition with the centre-right Batkivshchyna and UDAR parties to form the parliament’s collective opposition, now a majority…
Voters from Western Ukraine and Central Ukraine tend to vote for pro-Western and pro-European general liberal national democrats with the Our Ukraine Blocs and Bloc Yulia Tymoshenko (now Batkivshchyna) as its frontrunners; UDAR replaced the Our Ukraine Bloc in the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election. Our Ukraine, a major national democratic force in Ukrainian politics in the early 21st century met with total failure since the 2010 Ukrainian local elections. While in Eastern Ukraine and Southern Ukraine pro-Russian parties get the vote. Since the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election Fatherland and UDAR cooperate officially with All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda”."
Facts like those?[/quote]
What did you prove there? That this is obviously an ethno nationalistic revolution. Because of some elections that happened? You literally copied and pasted some facts of an election that happened in the past, that you did in a rush, because oh no an Ukrainian called you out in your ignorance on Ukraine. Dude my FAMILY voted in these elections, they inform me better then YOU can. The fact that I actually care about Ukraine, and keep well informed, by friends family from both east and west, should tell you that posting wiki facts, about stuff you literally JUST learned about when you checked wiki to prove this Uke wrong, isn’t going to open my eyes to anything your trying to prove.
People in the east are pro-Russian and people in the West are pro-EU but somehow it has nothing to do with nationalism. Okay. Whatever you say.
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
Give the theories a break and work with researched facts. [/quote]
"During the 2009 and 2010 local elections in Galicia, the party(Svoboda) made significant gains and became a major force in local government. In the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary elections, Svoboda won its first seats in the Ukrainian Parliament, garnering 10.44% of the popular vote and the 4th most seats among national political parties; this transposed into 37 parliamentary seats. In October 2012, Svoboda joined a formal coalition with the centre-right Batkivshchyna and UDAR parties to form the parliament’s collective opposition, now a majority…
Voters from Western Ukraine and Central Ukraine tend to vote for pro-Western and pro-European general liberal national democrats with the Our Ukraine Blocs and Bloc Yulia Tymoshenko (now Batkivshchyna) as its frontrunners; UDAR replaced the Our Ukraine Bloc in the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election. Our Ukraine, a major national democratic force in Ukrainian politics in the early 21st century met with total failure since the 2010 Ukrainian local elections. While in Eastern Ukraine and Southern Ukraine pro-Russian parties get the vote. Since the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary election Fatherland and UDAR cooperate officially with All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda”."
Facts like those?[/quote]
What did you prove there? That this is obviously an ethno nationalistic revolution. Because of some elections that happened? You literally copied and pasted some facts of an election that happened in the past, that you did in a rush, because oh no an Ukrainian called you out in your ignorance on Ukraine. Dude my FAMILY voted in these elections, they inform me better then YOU can. The fact that I actually care about Ukraine, and keep well informed, by friends family from both east and west, should tell you that posting wiki facts, about stuff you literally JUST learned about when you checked wiki to prove this Uke wrong, isn’t going to open my eyes to anything your trying to prove. [/quote]
Did you seriously think I never knew about those elections? And how the hell does this prove your demo on whatever the H*** you were trying to prove. People in Western Ukraine vote pro west, oh obvious tie in to ancient Hellenized Jews. Resemblance is uncanny. All those Jews, Tartars, Russian speaking Ukrainians, Ukrainian speaking Russians and vice versa must be of one ethnic nationalistic drive to stop their country from getting stuck in class struggle, because thats the only conflicts that exist in this world.
Next time you want to teach a Ukrainian about Ukraine, or Frenchman about France, or Martians about Mars, wait it out.
Huh?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
People in the east are pro-Russian and people in the West are pro-EU but somehow it has nothing to do with nationalism. Okay. Whatever you say.[/quote]
And this proves your ethnic nationalism theory when I told you, east to west Ukrainians are the majority in all regions? How many people do you know from western and eastern Ukraine? You looked at one picture and now you know it all huh? I always knew who got what votes and i told you it was a mindset thing. Donbas ( do you even what that means?) has always been pro Soviet. I can tell you its past hundreds of years of history there and how it got to be that way. And your trying to school me on my background.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Huh?[/quote]
Thats what I say when you try teaching me about Ukraine, with your lame as hell fox tv theories.
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
…must be of one ethnic nationalistic drive to stop their country from getting stuck in class struggle, because thats the only conflicts that exist in this world.
[/quote]
A drive to nationalism to stop class struggle? Say what?
I’ll try one more time. When two “nations” are at war with each other “nationalism” generally underlies it. Why? Because “nationalists” tend to fight for their “nation’s” interests. Nationalism is not bad. Nationalism is good. I support Ukrainian nationalists. Not sure why you’re trying to pretend this has nothing to do with nationalism. Let’s agree to disagree.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
…must be of one ethnic nationalistic drive to stop their country from getting stuck in class struggle, because thats the only conflicts that exist in this world.
[/quote]
A drive to nationalism to stop class struggle? Say what?
I’ll try one more time. When two “nations” are at war with each other “nationalism” generally underlies it. Why? Because “nationalists” tend to fight for their “nation’s” interests. Nationalism is not bad. Nationalism is good. I support Ukrainian nationalists. Not sure why you’re trying to pretend this has nothing to do with nationalism. Let’s agree to disagree.[/quote]
Are you kidding me? There is no nation fighting another nation here, Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians and Russians are killing Russians. Jews and Tartars for the most part are on Pro western side. Youll then say oh well Eastern Ukraine is pro Russian. So? it is also a majority Ukrainian, with a hell of a lot Ukrainians being anti Ukraine!
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
Are you kidding me? There is no nation fighting another nation here,
[/quote]
Russia? Ukraine?
[quote]
Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians and Russians are killing Russians. Jews and Tartars for the most part are on Pro western side. Youll then say oh well Eastern Ukraine is pro Russian. So? it is also a majority Ukrainian, with a hell of a lot Ukrainians being anti Ukraine![/quote]
Round in circles again eh? Eastern Ukraine is Russianised. The Ukrainians there are pro-Russian because they are Russianised. They’re Russophiles. Just like the Hellenised Jews in the Maccabean revolt were Hellenised. Look at the frigging map for Christ’s sake! Why are you trying to deny this?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]edmontonalberta wrote:
Are you kidding me? There is no nation fighting another nation here,
[/quote]
Russia? Ukraine?
[quote]
Ukrainians are killing Ukrainians and Russians are killing Russians. Jews and Tartars for the most part are on Pro western side. Youll then say oh well Eastern Ukraine is pro Russian. So? it is also a majority Ukrainian, with a hell of a lot Ukrainians being anti Ukraine![/quote]
Round in circles again eh? Eastern Ukraine is Russianised. The Ukrainians there are pro-Russian because they are Russianised. They’re Russophiles. Just like the Hellenised Jews in the Maccabean revolt were Hellenised. Look at the frigging map for Christ’s sake! Why are you trying to deny this?[/quote]
Only the cities are, small rural areas speak Ukrainian. Also Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkiv, Kherson are heavily Russified with huge Russian minorities and the majority support Ukraine unity, Russian and Ukrainian alike. Dnepropetrovsk is called the L’viv in the east. Also a hell of alot of supporters showed face to rally for unity in the donbas before the guns came out.Why are you trying to fast track learn about Ukraine to try and teach a Ukrainian about Ukraine? Take your Ukrainian flash cards, lose them and get a new hobby. Take up teaching Japanese to the Japanese, you might have a killer theory on how to pronounce something. Look at me I wikied your language, want to learn how to speak it?
Because all you came up with is “I wikied a map. I know everything there is no know of Ukraine. Oh that ain’t enough for you? While Ill just wiki 2012 elections. That ll show him that I know more about Ukraine then this Ukrainian will ever dream of muahhahaha muhgaghagah”