[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
So, is it cause or effect? Does voting Democrat cause poverty, or do poor people tend to vote Democrat?[/quote]
The correct answer is both.
Some good points by everyone. I am suprised to not see baltimore on that list, but maybe its because I watched the Wire…
I am a pittsburgh native so I can relate to the steel industry comment. I dont quite believe it was Reagans fault though. At least here the Industry was going under in the 70’s, and this is and was US Steels HQ. Id say it was half the unions and half the governments fault, which predates Reagan. The union similar to the detroit big 3 repeatedly harmed their own global competitiveness by demanding more concessions without increases in efficiancy. Now there was a certain technology , some sort of rolling mechanism that would have greatly enhanced the productivity, and US steel asked for a loan from the government, but did not get it. Then steel industry goes… ironic where we are sitting years later. The steel industry could still be thriving in this country due to our resources. Though if anyone has good literature or informative material on this situation I would greatly appreciate it whether or not you agree with me.
I think its pretty safe to say that city populations tend to vote more democrat, though whether its cause and effect is debateable. However I do think NYC is a good example under Guilliani/Bloomberg despite the formers personel shortcomings.
Did a little of my own research. Here is a good article on the rust belt cities and factors that affected unemployment in the heavy industries and some differences between right to work and closed shop states competitiveness. Rust Belt - Wikipedia
[quote]666Rich wrote:
Some good points by everyone. I am suprised to not see baltimore on that list, but maybe its because I watched the Wire…
I am a pittsburgh native so I can relate to the steel industry comment. I dont quite believe it was Reagans fault though. At least here the Industry was going under in the 70’s, and this is and was US Steels HQ. Id say it was half the unions and half the governments fault, which predates Reagan. The union similar to the detroit big 3 repeatedly harmed their own global competitiveness by demanding more concessions without increases in efficiancy. [/quote]
Where an individual wishes to work for a company for given compensation, and the company wishes to hire that person for that compensation, but is prevented from doing so, the true underlying force involved in infringing their rights and potentially destroying the company is government.
Or, where union thugs themselves use force against others, the reason they get away with it is government.
Politicians, and those who vote for politicians of the type who cause the above, are the underlying cause.
Poverty subsidization. Whether democrats tend to support this kind of spending domestically more than republicans is a good point but I am sure there are some programs that republicans support that can also be to blame – for example, foreign policy spending that ends up debasing the currency and broadening the gap between the owner class and working poor.
Too much government is not a democrat or republican issue but rather one of statism in general.
I’m not sure how to ask this without coming off racist so here goes. When America was “great” What were the nationalities of the majority? Who built this country and industry? Who looked for handouts? Compare that to today. Not trying to be a jerk I’m just looking for a trend.
[quote]3hitter wrote:
I’m not sure how to ask this without coming off racist so here goes. When America was “great” What were the nationalities of the majority? Who built this country and industry? Who looked for handouts? Compare that to today. Not trying to be a jerk I’m just looking for a trend.[/quote]
You mean like “Wall Street” handouts?
[quote]666Rich wrote:
Some good points by everyone. I am suprised to not see baltimore on that list, but maybe its because I watched the Wire…
I am a pittsburgh native so I can relate to the steel industry comment. I dont quite believe it was Reagans fault though. At least here the Industry was going under in the 70’s, and this is and was US Steels HQ. Id say it was half the unions and half the governments fault, which predates Reagan. The union similar to the detroit big 3 repeatedly harmed their own global competitiveness by demanding more concessions without increases in efficiancy. Now there was a certain technology , some sort of rolling mechanism that would have greatly enhanced the productivity, and US steel asked for a loan from the government, but did not get it. Then steel industry goes… ironic where we are sitting years later. The steel industry could still be thriving in this country due to our resources. Though if anyone has good literature or informative material on this situation I would greatly appreciate it whether or not you agree with me.
I think its pretty safe to say that city populations tend to vote more democrat, though whether its cause and effect is debateable. However I do think NYC is a good example under Guilliani/Bloomberg despite the formers personel shortcomings.[/quote]
Actually, your wrong, the steel industry in America today IS competitive world wide… They are still hiring and making a profit even now with the economy (mini mills that is), the bigger integrated mills like US Steel are at 60% now (as of a week ago) so they are back to turning a profit…
The real threat to american steel is the govt and cap n trade… that will F**k our last remaining high paying industry left… minus the foreign companies that build cars here… (read BMW, Honda, Toyota, and Kia’s new car plants in Alabama)…
Alabama is the highest steel producing state in the US right now and will be the highest rolling state as of next year when the Wapaca rolling line comes on…
BTW, if you want good stocks right now, go mini-mills steel… Nucor, Steel Dynamics, AK Steel, all still making a profit and investing in technology and people…
[quote]3hitter wrote:
I’m not sure how to ask this without coming off racist so here goes. When America was “great” What were the nationalities of the majority? Who built this country and industry? Who looked for handouts? Compare that to today. Not trying to be a jerk I’m just looking for a trend.[/quote]
It has nothing to do with race. Today’s race means less and less while social classes are becoming more stratified. besides, Race is a human-made concept - each “race” of human is genetically identical. The difference is how a person is raised, what schools he goes to, who he modeled his behavior to ect…
Back to social classes: Does the government represent the lower class or the upper class more? Who pays the most taxes? Who fights the wars? Whos more likely to go to jail? Whos more likely to go to college because their families can afford it? I think we agree that Whites and minorities live in different worlds - but more importantly, the Upper class and the masses live in a different world.
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]666Rich wrote:
Some good points by everyone. I am suprised to not see baltimore on that list, but maybe its because I watched the Wire…
I am a pittsburgh native so I can relate to the steel industry comment. I dont quite believe it was Reagans fault though. At least here the Industry was going under in the 70’s, and this is and was US Steels HQ. Id say it was half the unions and half the governments fault, which predates Reagan. The union similar to the detroit big 3 repeatedly harmed their own global competitiveness by demanding more concessions without increases in efficiancy. Now there was a certain technology , some sort of rolling mechanism that would have greatly enhanced the productivity, and US steel asked for a loan from the government, but did not get it. Then steel industry goes… ironic where we are sitting years later. The steel industry could still be thriving in this country due to our resources. Though if anyone has good literature or informative material on this situation I would greatly appreciate it whether or not you agree with me.
I think its pretty safe to say that city populations tend to vote more democrat, though whether its cause and effect is debateable. However I do think NYC is a good example under Guilliani/Bloomberg despite the formers personel shortcomings.[/quote]
Actually, your wrong, the steel industry in America today IS competitive world wide… They are still hiring and making a profit even now with the economy (mini mills that is), the bigger integrated mills like US Steel are at 60% now (as of a week ago) so they are back to turning a profit…
The real threat to american steel is the govt and cap n trade… that will F**k our last remaining high paying industry left… minus the foreign companies that build cars here… (read BMW, Honda, Toyota, and Kia’s new car plants in Alabama)…
Alabama is the highest steel producing state in the US right now and will be the highest rolling state as of next year when the Wapaca rolling line comes on…
BTW, if you want good stocks right now, go mini-mills steel… Nucor, Steel Dynamics, AK Steel, all still making a profit and investing in technology and people…[/quote]
how is the government going to fuck over the steel industry?
I am going to guess, because you can’t produce steel without releasing CO2 or purchasing energy, the price of which would increase drastically under “cap and trade.”
[quote]Ratchet wrote:
[quote]666Rich wrote:
Some good points by everyone. I am suprised to not see baltimore on that list, but maybe its because I watched the Wire…
I am a pittsburgh native so I can relate to the steel industry comment. I dont quite believe it was Reagans fault though. At least here the Industry was going under in the 70’s, and this is and was US Steels HQ. Id say it was half the unions and half the governments fault, which predates Reagan. The union similar to the detroit big 3 repeatedly harmed their own global competitiveness by demanding more concessions without increases in efficiancy. Now there was a certain technology , some sort of rolling mechanism that would have greatly enhanced the productivity, and US steel asked for a loan from the government, but did not get it. Then steel industry goes… ironic where we are sitting years later. The steel industry could still be thriving in this country due to our resources. Though if anyone has good literature or informative material on this situation I would greatly appreciate it whether or not you agree with me.
I think its pretty safe to say that city populations tend to vote more democrat, though whether its cause and effect is debateable. However I do think NYC is a good example under Guilliani/Bloomberg despite the formers personel shortcomings.[/quote]
Actually, your wrong, the steel industry in America today IS competitive world wide… They are still hiring and making a profit even now with the economy (mini mills that is), the bigger integrated mills like US Steel are at 60% now (as of a week ago) so they are back to turning a profit…
The real threat to american steel is the govt and cap n trade… that will F**k our last remaining high paying industry left… minus the foreign companies that build cars here… (read BMW, Honda, Toyota, and Kia’s new car plants in Alabama)…
Alabama is the highest steel producing state in the US right now and will be the highest rolling state as of next year when the Wapaca rolling line comes on…
BTW, if you want good stocks right now, go mini-mills steel… Nucor, Steel Dynamics, AK Steel, all still making a profit and investing in technology and people…[/quote]
The threat of mini mills has been around since the 70s, As far as cap and trade, that is why we should not recognize any nation that does not play by the same rules as America. Meaning cap and Trade, fair wage any factor that can make American steel more expensive than our competition.
[quote]jawara wrote:
<<< I see it as liberal vs conservative economic policy. >>>[/quote]
This is exactly correct
[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
… or do poor people tend to vote Democrat?[/quote]
BINGO!
You win the prize. And why do they vote democratic? Very simple, because (rightly so) the democrats are known for their many giveaway programs. And the poor seem to think that if someone gives them something that they will be better off. This thought process is wrong, but it continues. LBJ’s great society should have proved to all that giving someone something for free only makes them MORE not LESS dependent on government to continue this action. This has been demonstrated time and again. Unfortunately we must now go through three more years of this on a national level as Obama tries to take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who do not deserve it but want it anyway.
Liberalism is killing this country and the tragic part about is liberals will swear we are failing because we don’t have enough of this nonsense. They then move forward and preach class warfare to their constituents in order to continue to get reelected.
A very bad situation.
Some of these people ain’t as poor as you might believe. I see them all the time paying for food with their bridge card, which you can be sure isn’t the only program their tapping, wearing expensive name brand shoes clothes, sunglasses, cell phones and getting into their suv’s in the parking lot.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
… or do poor people tend to vote Democrat?[/quote]
BINGO!
You win the prize. And why do they vote democratic? Very simple, because (rightly so) the democrats are known for their many giveaway programs. And the poor seem to think that if someone gives them something that they will be better off. This thought process is wrong, but it continues. LBJ’s great society should have proved to all that giving someone something for free only makes them MORE not LESS dependent on government to continue this action. This has been demonstrated time and again. Unfortunately we must now go through three more years of this on a national level as Obama tries to take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who do not deserve it but want it anyway.
Liberalism is killing this country and the tragic part about is liberals will swear we are failing because we don’t have enough of this nonsense. They then move forward and preach class warfare to their constituents in order to continue to get reelected.
A very bad situation.
[/quote]
You are soooo wrong:)
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Some of these people ain’t as poor as you might believe. I see them all the time paying for food with their bridge card, which you can be sure isn’t the only program their tapping, wearing expensive name brand shoes clothes, sunglasses, cell phones and getting into their suv’s in the parking lot.[/quote]
x2
In regards to the above post… yes their is a definate lack of prioritization in consumer choices in this income bracket. I blame subsidy programs, of which a good informative post was created by Orion stating how perverse economic incentives cause economic stagnation between 0-40k worth of income that promote not working and taking handouts, creating dependancy. It is fucking disgusting. Put your kids through school instead of buying your escalade. Not saying everyone does it, but I have seen this in the hood around my area.
What’s amazing is people’s reliance on the government. If the economy or anything else goes bust then lets blame the government. At the same time, people are beggins for the government to fix health care, gas prices, the housing market, out sourcing, etc. The problem is that people have stopped acting for themselves. The government is always going to give corporate bail outs and help the big business. Every now and then, they’ll send us some $500 tax rebate check to show that they are fighting for the little man.
All the while, they’re cutting taxes for the rich which leads to a “trickle down” effect where the tax burden trickles down on the middle class in the form of higher property taxes and fewer exemptions. The cities on this list have one major thing in common: lack of jobs and people that refuse to do anything about it.
The poorest states in the union are OVERWHELMINGLY Republican states. If people think poverty has to do with party affiliation they are misguided aside from having no ability to see causation.
/thread.
p.s. The poorest populations in America are rural whites not urban blacks. Don’t take my word for it; the census shows this.
now /thread.