[quote]Youch wrote:
However, when America gained independence it was as a result of the battle of Yorktown, the only battle that America won.
[/quote]
Some important American victories: Battle of Saratoga, Battle of King’s Mountain, Battle of Trenton, Battle of Cowpens, Battle of Monmouth, Battle of Bunker Hill (I know, I know, but we won that battle for all intents and purposes).
Anyways, you get the idea.
mike
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Youch wrote:
However, when America gained independence it was as a result of the battle of Yorktown, the only battle that America won.
Some important American victories: Battle of Saratoga, Battle of King’s Mountain, Battle of Trenton, Battle of Cowpens, Battle of Monmouth, Battle of Bunker Hill (I know, I know, but we won that battle for all intents and purposes).
Anyways, you get the idea.
mike[/quote]
I was incredulous when he said that… thanks for beating me to it.
The Battle of Saratoga is what got the French to come in on our side… quite a big victory.
And the battle of Monmouth, where Charles Lee was finally taken out of command, and Washington turned the tide…
I suggest reading “1776” and “Rise to Rebellion”. Although the latter is fiction, there is a ton of history in it… and when you read “1776”, you truly realize that we were so lucky in that whole war… the hand of God passed over this land, because we should have been slaughtered… many, many times, not the least of which included the Siege of Boston and the escape from Manhattan Island.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
texasguy1 wrote:
I think it’s more that they don’t like us because we defeated them twice and then saved them twice. It’s a pride thing.
You did not save them once.
Hitler actually saved them once, by taking advice from Goering, but after that an invasion was probably impossible.
Your anti-Americanosm is so strong it puts you out of touch with reality.
Where would Britian have been if America decided to be truly neutral in 1939 and not provided war materiel and the US Navy to protect shipments?
Our involvement started long before 12/7/41.
[/quote]
Ja, it started in WWI when you helped create Hitler.
Unfortunately your nationalism is so strong that you are unable to see that part of reality.
As far as “saving us” goes - yeah eventually you decided to pitch in to the WORLD WAR the rest of us were having, well done.
I’m not going to thank any country in particular. I thank each and every person who gave their life for our freedom. American, French, Russian, whatever.
[quote]dave_ wrote:
As far as “saving us” goes - yeah eventually you decided to pitch in to the WORLD WAR the rest of us were having, well done.
I’m not going to thank any country in particular. I thank each and every person who gave their life for our freedom. American, French, Russian, whatever. [/quote]
GREETINGS!!!
This is my kind of thread.
First of all, dave, make sure you choose the most muscular, American powerlifter to tell him what you think.
Don’t pick the 18 year old, 165 pound, “I hate my parents/America” hippie, American.
Choose a guy with short hair and looks like he could rip down your house with his bare hands.
If you don’t, then you are a coward.
Second, the English and french were close to annhilation in 1918. Look it up. Ludendorf, I believe should get you close.
Third, ask Churchill how important he thought Lend Lease was. Aka… you were done without the destroyers and other material.
Fourth, I’M SICK AND TIRED OF POSTING HOW MANY AMERICANS DIED BEFORE 12/7/41 IN THE ATLANTIC.
Roosevelt and Churchill split the Atlantic into zones of influence.
Fifth, I ran into plenty of Englishmen who feel they are closer to America than mainland Europe.
However, your experience and mine should be thrown out as anectodal.
I’ll bet the truth is probably somewhere in between.
Oh, be sure to tell your sweaty, little, American hating friends that talk is cheap.
Thanks.
JeffR
[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
texasguy1 wrote:
I think it’s more that they don’t like us because we defeated them twice and then saved them twice. It’s a pride thing.
You did not save them once.
Hitler actually saved them once, by taking advice from Goering, but after that an invasion was probably impossible.
Your anti-Americanism is so strong it puts you out of touch with reality.
Where would Britian have been if America decided to be truly neutral in 1939 and not provided war materiel and the US Navy to protect shipments?
Our involvement started long before 12/7/41.
Ja, it started in WWI when you helped create Hitler.
Unfortunately your nationalism is so strong that you are unable to see that part of reality.
[/quote]
bota,
Be sure to look up Versailles. If they would have listened to Wilson, your countryman (hitler), germany, and your country wouldn’t have unleashed your horrors on the world.
JeffR
[quote]JeffR wrote:
dave_ wrote:
As far as “saving us” goes - yeah eventually you decided to pitch in to the WORLD WAR the rest of us were having, well done.
I’m not going to thank any country in particular. I thank each and every person who gave their life for our freedom. American, French, Russian, whatever.
GREETINGS!!!
This is my kind of thread.
First of all, dave, make sure you choose the most muscular, American powerlifter to tell him what you think.
Don’t pick the 18 year old, 165 pound, “I hate my parents/America” hippie, American.
Choose a guy with short hair and looks like he could rip down your house with his bare hands.
If you don’t, then you are a coward.
Second, the English and french were close to annhilation in 1918. Look it up. Ludendorf, I believe should get you close.
Third, ask Churchill how important he thought Lend Lease was. Aka… you were done without the destroyers and other material.
Fourth, I’M SICK AND TIRED OF POSTING HOW MANY AMERICANS DIED BEFORE 12/7/41 IN THE ATLANTIC.
Roosevelt and Churchill split the Atlantic into zones of influence.
Fifth, I ran into plenty of Englishmen who feel they are closer to America than mainland Europe.
However, your experience and mine should be thrown out as anectodal.
I’ll bet the truth is probably somewhere in between.
Oh, be sure to tell your sweaty, little, American hating friends that talk is cheap.
Thanks.
JeffR
[/quote]
It’s a shame you went to so much effort to type all of that out, and then finished with “talk is cheap”.
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
I know this probably isn’t what you were trying to say Zap, but allow me to digress for a minute here and say that I don’t understand this attitude of “our allies are so fortunate for our help.” Since when is America about hubris and looking down our noses at our friends and allies?
I have so much pride in the fact that we’ve help to liberate and fight for so many of our allies, but it’s always disappointing to me that so many American almost seem to want to make our allies feel inadequate for needing our help.
It’s like if you had a friend you would fight for, but constantly taunted him that if it weren’t for you he’d be a bitch. I would never treat a friend that way it it’s sad to me that that’s the current state of many of our alliances. Why are we even allies with some of these countries if we have so much disdain for them?
[/quote]
I wouldn’t say that Americans go out of their way to ‘look down their noses’ at anybody. If anything, I believe its more the other way around.
In other words, I don’t think you can saddle the disdain on the American horse.
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
texasguy1 wrote:
Hitler dominated virtually all of europe and was well on his way to outing britain.
That’s an oversimplification. The Royal Navy was still a superior force compared to the Kriegsmarine, and the RAF fought valiantly to stave off Luftwaffe assualt and “win” the Battle of Britain.
As far as the Battle of the Atlantic, read up on the Destroyers for Bases Agreement. To use your analogy: Have you ever been in a fight, and have a buddy walk by and say “I’ll toss you my gun, but when we get home I’m taking your Xbox and your golf clubs”?
British capture of the Enigma machine was also very significant in helping to break the German’s code system. We can all thanks the Brits for that.
The Nazis were winning until the US showed up and bitched them around.
Contrary to popular (jingoistic belief) we got “bitched around” quite a bit by the Nazis ourselves. WW2 featured some pretty intense fighting, to put it lightly, and both sides suffered some pretty serious tactical losses, and we certainly benefited from more than a couple tactical gaffs on the part of the Germans.
They pushed too aggressively into territories that they simply could not occupy and defend; they were overextended. If they had never invaded Russia, who knows what would have happened? Many historians believe that Operation Barbarossa was the turning point of the war and led to the downfall of Nazi Germany. Germany severely underestimated Russian military strength.
End of the day we fought bravely, alongside our many allies, and were victorious. However, I’ve never heard a serious historian describe the European theater as: “Everyone was getting their asses kick and then the Americans showed up a destroyed the Germans.” That’s more a depiction I expect from someone whose only study of the conflict was watching Saving Private Ryan.
Luckily the russians were ready to help as well by splitting hitler’s military to two fronts.
Absolutely wrong.
“Luck” had nothing to do with it. The Russians were invaded in June of 1941. At that point they had no choice but to defend themselves. The eastern front some of than most intense warfare of the entire war, and Russia suffered the greatest sacrifices.
After the invasion of Russia, we collaborated with the British to establish a western front. Stalin had been urging the Western Allies to open up a western but that only happened after the Allies got their shit together politically. So I guess you could say: Luckily we got around to helping Russia. We entered battle to their aid, not the other way around, if you choose to look at it from that perspective.
This way, we were able to defeat the Nazi’s faster than we could have by ourselves and could concentrate all our military efforts on japan as we had also been fighting a two front war (though successfully).
Wrong. It was the combination of Allied and Russian forces the defeated Nazi Germany, period. Russia did not “help us win faster”; they suffered the largest casualties and saw the most intense fighting.
We then saved china and most of south east asia from the imperialist japanese as well.
Shit, we totally forgot about the Australians! After kicking our asses in the Philippines and the Solomon islands the Japanese tried to take Papua New Guinea. Their first major defeat came at the hands of the Australians, who bravely defended the island for 2 years and eventually sent the Japanese away in defeat.
They were involved in the war from the beginning, and fought in both theaters. Their tussles with Rommel in Northern Africa were significant. The “Rats of Tobruk” successfully defended the port of Tobruk against some Hitler’s of finest military officers.
with out america, the world would be a Nazi/Japanese playground if the tide of the war previous to our entry says anything. which it does.
Yeah, but you could say the same thing of Russia or Britain. All parties fought valiantly and all were indispensable.
Unfortunately the Russians adopted communism shortly after and we became enemies. Had that not happened, the world would potentially be a very peaceful place today.
Wrong. The Russians did not adopt Communism after WW2, and the idea that the world would be peaceful if it “weren’t for the Russians” is laughable. You’ve never seriously studied history have you?
No Vietnam, No N.Korea, no hot spots at random places of influence through out the globe, no financially and militarily backed middle eastern war lords, no terrorism… but no. The russians turned and the US is now dealing with those issues, apparantly at the disaproval of those we have taken up for.
That’s absolutely ridiculous. Guess what, if it weren’t for American intervention there wouldn’t be any Vietnam, or N. Korea, financially backed middle eastern warlord either. Remember that we were party to that shit too. We had our interests, they had theirs.
If you actually are interested in learning about the history of the conflict it really is very cool stuff. You sound like you really only know about the Normandy invasion and its peripheral battles, which is understandable since that was our finest hour and whatnot.
But read up on the Battle of Britain, Operation Market Garden, Operation Barbarossa and the Eastern Front. Read about the Desert Fox and the Rats of Tobruk. Read about Bastogne. Interesting trivia: Canada was the only country to successfully complete all of its D-Day objectives.
A lot of Americans feel that if they give up the fantasy of WWII and study the real history that it will somehow diminish what we accomplished, but that’s not true at all. WWII was in many ways our finest hour, and it doesn’t diminish that one bit to learn about what really happened and acknowledge the contributions of our allies. Even the stuff I’ve posted above is a gross oversimplification.[/quote]
The british and other european military forces were relying on american financial and supply aid to exist. Even before we went to battle, we held up the allied infrastructure.
The nazi’s did fight back of course. But the tide of the war turned when we entered and there is no denying that.
We were defeating the germans and the russians helped. we were still on our way to victory and the russian front aided in that victory. you are just repeating what i’ve already said.
The australians fall in line with europe. All militaries did help, but were being defeated until the US stepped in militarily instead of as a supplier.
With out US supplies, Europe, Australia and others would have been in an even bigger world of pain before we stepped in anyways.
The US carried the allied forces at every step of the way.
[quote]dave_ wrote:
JeffR wrote:
dave_ wrote:
As far as “saving us” goes - yeah eventually you decided to pitch in to the WORLD WAR the rest of us were having, well done.
I’m not going to thank any country in particular. I thank each and every person who gave their life for our freedom. American, French, Russian, whatever.
GREETINGS!!!
This is my kind of thread.
First of all, dave, make sure you choose the most muscular, American powerlifter to tell him what you think.
Don’t pick the 18 year old, 165 pound, “I hate my parents/America” hippie, American.
Choose a guy with short hair and looks like he could rip down your house with his bare hands.
If you don’t, then you are a coward.
Second, the English and french were close to annhilation in 1918. Look it up. Ludendorf, I believe should get you close.
Third, ask Churchill how important he thought Lend Lease was. Aka… you were done without the destroyers and other material.
Fourth, I’M SICK AND TIRED OF POSTING HOW MANY AMERICANS DIED BEFORE 12/7/41 IN THE ATLANTIC.
Roosevelt and Churchill split the Atlantic into zones of influence.
Fifth, I ran into plenty of Englishmen who feel they are closer to America than mainland Europe.
However, your experience and mine should be thrown out as anectodal.
I’ll bet the truth is probably somewhere in between.
Oh, be sure to tell your sweaty, little, American hating friends that talk is cheap.
Thanks.
JeffR
It’s a shame you went to so much effort to type all of that out, and then finished with “talk is cheap”.
[/quote]
Sad.
Just remember when you are running your hole with your little pals, we are laughing at you.
Too bad your education is as pathetic as your courage.
JeffR
[quote]roadkill wrote:
Gazz wrote:
The mentality of some of the posts in this thread pretty well justifies the British view of the American “psyche”.
Gazz
So basically the British think they’re better than Americans, and it must be true because of a couple posts you read and didn’t like.
I was under the impression that most British people liked Americans, and vice versa.
I think the 4th of July is celebrated more as the birth of our nation than beating the British. I’ve never heard any mention of anti-British sentiment at a 4th of July event, though it could exist somewhere.[/quote]
Re read my post again. Nowhere did I state that the British think they are better than the Americans. My reference was to the American pyche ie mindset, viewpoint.
I said that the “Special relationship” was a figment of the politicians imagination. I did not say that the British people did not like Americans or vice versa. Personally I don’t mind some Americans, in the same way that I don’t mind some French, Iranians, Chinese or even some English.
Gazz
[quote]texasguy1 wrote:
roadkill wrote:
Gazz wrote:
The mentality of some of the posts in this thread pretty well justifies the British view of the American “psyche”.
Gazz
So basically the British think they’re better than Americans, and it must be true because of a couple posts you read and didn’t like.
I was under the impression that most British people liked Americans, and vice versa.
I think the 4th of July is celebrated more as the birth of our nation than beating the British. I’ve never heard any mention of anti-British sentiment at a 4th of July event, though it could exist somewhere.
I think it’s more that they don’t like us because we defeated them twice and then saved them twice. It’s a pride thing. [/quote]
Replies such as this justify my original statement.
Thanks so much for saving us.
Gazz
[quote]Gazz wrote:
The mentality of some of the posts in this thread pretty well justifies the British view of the American “psyche”.
Gazz[/quote]
I think it has something to do with the indoctrination all of them go through in school; the american civil religion.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
Gazz wrote:
The mentality of some of the posts in this thread pretty well justifies the British view of the American “psyche”.
Gazz
I think it has something to do with the indoctrination all of them go through in school; the american civil religion.
http://www.facsnet.org/issues/faith/sherrill_indy.php
[/quote]
But then again, you would count our schools out as education goes…(how could you not when we fall in the bottom percentages) We just don’t have a clue by comparison do we?
Tell me then, how you English surpass…with your chav’s and bollocks. Whole nation being overrun by Muslims. Let’s build the largest mosque known to man so that it can be seen from the sky. Tell me how you fare better. Tell me tales of bullshit.
Point your noses up real high, against the fat, thick Americans, keep treating us as the enemy… and accept the real one into your breast like fools. I don’t care. I wish America would just keep out of it all, remove the scapegoat of the masses. Look after its own interest for once. Fuck yourselves in the ass for all I care. I want my country to care about itself, and nobody else. Its high time.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
dave_ wrote:
JeffR wrote:
dave_ wrote:
As far as “saving us” goes - yeah eventually you decided to pitch in to the WORLD WAR the rest of us were having, well done.
I’m not going to thank any country in particular. I thank each and every person who gave their life for our freedom. American, French, Russian, whatever.
GREETINGS!!!
This is my kind of thread.
First of all, dave, make sure you choose the most muscular, American powerlifter to tell him what you think.
Don’t pick the 18 year old, 165 pound, “I hate my parents/America” hippie, American.
Choose a guy with short hair and looks like he could rip down your house with his bare hands…
If you don’t, then you are a coward.
Oh, be sure to tell your sweaty, little, American hating friends that talk is cheap.
Thanks.
JeffR
It’s a shame you went to so much effort to type all of that out, and then finished with “talk is cheap”.
Sad.
Just remember when you are running your hole with your little pals, we are laughing at you.
Too bad your education is as pathetic as your courage.
JeffR
[/quote]
What? How old are you exactly? If talk is so cheap then why are you continuing with this cherade? Why do you assume I “run my hole” about the 4th of July? None of us “run our holes” because we truly don’t give a shit what you do. We don’t hate you guys, we are indifferent.
Why do you assume I have “sweaty little pals”? Are we all stereotypical geeks in your head? Where did this come from? You don’t know me, or my “pals”. You also clearly don’t know jack crap about my education, or my courage.
And just a tip - courage isn’t defined by how tough you are in a forum.
[quote]Molotov_Coktease wrote:
kaaleppi wrote:
Gazz wrote:
The mentality of some of the posts in this thread pretty well justifies the British view of the American “psyche”.
Gazz
I think it has something to do with the indoctrination all of them go through in school; the american civil religion.
http://www.facsnet.org/issues/faith/sherrill_indy.php
But then again, you would count our schools out as education goes…(how could you not when we fall in the bottom percentages) We just don’t have a clue by comparison do we?
Tell me then, how you English surpass…with your chav’s and bollocks. Whole nation being overrun by Muslims. Let’s build the largest mosque known to man so that it can be seen from the sky. Tell me how you fare better. Tell me tales of bullshit.
Point your noses up real high, against the fat, thick Americans, keep treating us as the enemy… and accept the real one into your breast like fools. I don’t care. I wish America would just keep out of it all, remove the scapegoat of the masses. Look after its own interest for once. Fuck yourselves in the ass for all I care. I want my country to care about itself, and nobody else. Its high time. [/quote]
Molotov
The guy you replied to was Finnish: Not much point in having a go at him about the Brits.
Gazz
This thread reminds me of two brothers bickering about who could win an arm-wrestling contest.
At the end of the day, the Anglo-American alliance is a strong one, and I am proud to be a part of it.
The Brits were tough as iron in WWII, and the Americans of course came in to help win the day. Everyone on both sides of the pond can and should feel proud of the contributions to overcome fascism in its European cradle, rather than tut-tutting with a pissing contest.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
This thread reminds me of two brothers bickering about who could win an arm-wrestling contest.
At the end of the day, the Anglo-American alliance is a strong one, and I am proud to be a part of it.
The Brits were tough as iron in WWII, and the Americans of course came in to help win the day. Everyone on both sides of the pond can and should feel proud of the contributions to overcome fascism in its European cradle, rather than tut-tutting with a pissing contest.[/quote]
We didn’t overcome fascism, we adopted it. Hitler introduced anti-capitalist economic measures which were subsequently incorporated into all the western governments. In the U.S. and Britain, it was called “Progressivism” rather than fascism. The principles were exactly the same, however.
White nationalism, not fascism, was defeated in WWII. Sixty years later, we see the effects: White people are projected to become a minority in Britain and US, and Arab nationalism is on the rise worldwide.
A victory, maybe, but not for the west and its descendants.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
We didn’t overcome fascism, we adopted it. Hitler introduced anti-capitalist economic measures which were subsequently incorporated into all the western governments. In the U.S. and Britain, it was called “Progressivism” rather than fascism. The principles were exactly the same, however.[/quote]
Your lament about the West “adopting” fascism seems an odd claim since you wrote in another thread:
“My political views can most accurately be described as “fascist”. I’m a student of power, and fascism is the political doctrine of power.”
Let’s see - a space cadet libertarian and a fascist?
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously around here?
You seem to have a race-twinge about you - I have heard you complain about women as well.
Nice - I wonder if your Ron Paul lapdogs appreciate your “white power” approach to political society?
In response to the OP?
I would think that our friends across the Pond think that the 4th is just another excuse those Damn Yanks have to gorge themselves and get drunk…
Mufasa