What Am I Missing, brah?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:
Bottom line is, all religions have been excuses for heinous shit, and nobody can point fingers. People are people and sociopaths come in all stripes, surprise surprise.

Why does present tense matter? You seemed to be comparing radical islam and radical christianity as fundamentally different in regard to their constituents propensity to do atrocious things. Any evidence that you dont like you dismiss by narrowing your definition, and you insult the intelligence of the person who gave the evidence.

You obviously are pushing an agenda here and trying to validate something you really want to believe.[/quote]

Again, do we need to go in to atrocities done by atheists.

People do realize that most wars and atrocities committed through out history, have not been religious in nature. But don’t let facts get in the way.[/quote]

Um, you just agreed with me, why is your tone condecending?[/quote]

I thought you were singling out religious folks, only…My bad.

42

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I say the whole world converts to islam, problem solved. No more evil people to make war on. One world religion or none, that is the only way the world will ever establish lasting peace.

Oh there is that whole other problem of muslim nations warring on each other. Hmmm Simple, no nations, just one world order, all under the banner of islam. Yea that will do the trick. I can see the peace we would all have already, well except for the women. On the plus side, I’d have an abundance of sammiches.

V[/quote]

I’d rather be a Jedi.

43

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I say the whole world converts to islam, problem solved. No more evil people to make war on. One world religion or none, that is the only way the world will ever establish lasting peace.

Oh there is that whole other problem of muslim nations warring on each other. Hmmm Simple, no nations, just one world order, all under the banner of islam. Yea that will do the trick. I can see the peace we would all have already, well except for the women. On the plus side, I’d have an abundance of sammiches.

V[/quote]

I’d rather be a Jedi.[/quote]

which is way better than a ninja

44

Back the the topic. The reputation problem they have is their own making. All they need to do is act right…If they act right, the problem is solved. Renounce the violence, treat each other right and treat non-muslims right…there is no issue if they would just do that.

48

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

The Crusades?

Wikipedia - The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1][page needed] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, like 200 to 400 years of killing?[/quote]

100 year war, the Jesuit experiments in South America, the Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, progroms against Jews all across Europe…

[/quote]

Ummm, I’m talking in TODAY’S world?

Try to read a little better:

“Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity” was the statement I was questioning.

You know, present tense?

Anyone else?

Oh, and just BTW, the Crusades began as an effort to DEFEND Christian lands; not as an agression. [/quote]

What?

If everything the US does is ok because the Nazis were evil, everything Muslims do is ok too, because there were Christians that did the same and worse.

You really cant have it both ways.

[/quote]

Lord knows what the hell you’re talking about…

But just for the record, I have never said that “everything the US does is ok” because of your grandfathers or for any other reason.

Jeez, try to ignore those voices in your head, and follow the question being asked.

He he.

If the Nazi’s are no excuse for America, then Christians are no excuse for the Muslims.

Goes both ways there, Franze, irrelevant as it may be… [/quote]

I never made the argument in earnest, you did repeatedly.

[/quote]

You’re kidding, right?

Your VERY FIRST comment to me on these boards (since repeated multiple times in various forms) was:

“At least it’s better (i.e., Muslim behavior) than what the Americans / US does.”

[/quote]

It is.

At least when it comes to foreign policy.

Far less bloody and far reaching.

But all of this is of course irrelevant because your ancestors did much worse.

49

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:
Bottom line is, all religions have been excuses for heinous shit, and nobody can point fingers. People are people and sociopaths come in all stripes, surprise surprise.

Why does present tense matter? You seemed to be comparing radical islam and radical christianity as fundamentally different in regard to their constituents propensity to do atrocious things. Any evidence that you dont like you dismiss by narrowing your definition, and you insult the intelligence of the person who gave the evidence.

You obviously are pushing an agenda here and trying to validate something you really want to believe.[/quote]

Again, do we need to go in to atrocities done by atheists.

People do realize that most wars and atrocities committed through out history, have not been religious in nature. But don’t let facts get in the way.[/quote]

Um, you just agreed with me, why is your tone condecending?[/quote]

I thought you were singling out religious folks, only…My bad.[/quote]

I think it was more “people are going to use whatever means they posses to fulfill their psychotic tendencies, religion just happens to be an effective tool for that end.” And while atheists have done many horrible things, atheism is rarely cited as the driving force for their actions.

51

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

The Crusades?

Wikipedia - The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1][page needed] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, like 200 to 400 years of killing?[/quote]

100 year war, the Jesuit experiments in South America, the Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, progroms against Jews all across Europe…

[/quote]

Ummm, I’m talking in TODAY’S world?

Try to read a little better:

“Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity” was the statement I was questioning.

You know, present tense?

Anyone else?

Oh, and just BTW, the Crusades began as an effort to DEFEND Christian lands; not as an agression. [/quote]

What?

If everything the US does is ok because the Nazis were evil, everything Muslims do is ok too, because there were Christians that did the same and worse.

You really cant have it both ways.

[/quote]

Lord knows what the hell you’re talking about…

But just for the record, I have never said that “everything the US does is ok” because of your grandfathers or for any other reason.

Jeez, try to ignore those voices in your head, and follow the question being asked.

He he.

If the Nazi’s are no excuse for America, then Christians are no excuse for the Muslims.

Goes both ways there, Franze, irrelevant as it may be… [/quote]

I never made the argument in earnest, you did repeatedly.

[/quote]

You’re kidding, right?

Your VERY FIRST comment to me on these boards (since repeated multiple times in various forms) was:

“At least it’s better (i.e., Muslim behavior) than what the Americans / US does.”

[/quote]

It is.

At least when it comes to foreign policy.

Far less bloody and far reaching.

But all of this is of course irrelevant because your ancestors did much worse.

[/quote]

Wow.

Please remind me to just ignore you next time.[/quote]

Ha!

That is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect the great-great-great-great-great-grandson of an inquisitor to have.

I bet you are fondling your thumb screws right now.

52

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)
[/quote]

The fact remains that this thread is not about Radical Christians, and even if it was, Radical Christians don’t go around killing people.

[quote]
As Sifu already told you, it’s not about “poor schmos” doing bad things for their family.
Most suicide bombers aren’t even religious.
And the really spectacular ones (9/11, Mumbai 2008 attacks etc etc) however, are very religious but are from middle class or even upper class.

Why don’t you make your homework before making up theories?[/quote]

53

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

Guy named Erik Rudolph(sp) blew up a women’s clinic about a half mile from where I’m sitting right now. My car was in the “extended blast radius” and had to be check for evidence when it happened. Nurse got mangled, cop who was working as security got killed. All in the name of Christianity. Stuff like that has happen a few times, doctors being shot etc.

Pretty much radical anything is dangerous.
[/quote]

I’m sorry that is not radical Christianity, that is stupidity and ridiculousness, combined with ignorance.

54

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
The problem of course, is religion. Competing religions, religious differences, religious extremists, etc.

RELIGION is the problem.[/quote]

Good way to miss the point, everyone is religious. So we should just stop our human nature…Maybe we should look a little deeper, to say the message of certain religions?

55

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

The Crusades?

Wikipedia - The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1][page needed] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, like 200 to 400 years of killing?[/quote]

…wow…you just totally ruined everyone’s argument with…wikipedia. Good job.

56

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

The Crusades?

Wikipedia - The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1][page needed] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, like 200 to 400 years of killing?[/quote]

100 year war, the Jesuit experiments in South America, the Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, progroms against Jews all across Europe…

[/quote]

Um…Spanish Inquisition? Was headed by the Spanish, not Rome. Rome even has clearly documented letters asking the Spanish to stop what they were doing. By the way I’m Spanish. Just because someone claims Christianity, doesn’t make it so.

57

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

The Crusades?

Wikipedia - The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1][page needed] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, like 200 to 400 years of killing?[/quote]

100 year war, the Jesuit experiments in South America, the Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, progroms against Jews all across Europe…

[/quote]

Um…Spanish Inquisition? Was headed by the Spanish, not Rome. Rome even has clearly documented letters asking the Spanish to stop what they were doing. By the way I’m Spanish. Just because someone claims Christianity, doesn’t make it so.[/quote]

Just because you blame Islam that does not make it so either, yet here we are.

58

[quote]orion wrote:

Just because you blame Islam that does not make it so either, yet here we are.

[/quote]

Orion, give me a quote from the New Testament which tells Christians to specifically burn witches at the stake.

59

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]milktruck wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Radical Islam is a problem, as is radical Christianity, but Islam surely is blown out of proportion. (In contrast problems with radical christians are collectively ignored for the most part)

[/quote]

I’d be genuinely interested to see the instances of radical Christianity that can be equated in 1)scale and 2)heinousness with what we see from radical Muslims.

I’ll be the first to condemn those Christians carryinng out suicide bombings & public beheadings, and flying commercial airliners loaded with civilians into huge buildings packed with innocents. All IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, of course. [/quote]

The Crusades?

Wikipedia - The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.[1][page needed] Orthodox Christians also took part in fighting against Islamic forces in some Crusades. Crusaders took vows and were granted penance for past sins, often called an indulgence.

So, like 200 to 400 years of killing?[/quote]

100 year war, the Jesuit experiments in South America, the Spanish Inquisition, witch burnings, progroms against Jews all across Europe…

[/quote]

Um…Spanish Inquisition? Was headed by the Spanish, not Rome. Rome even has clearly documented letters asking the Spanish to stop what they were doing. By the way I’m Spanish. Just because someone claims Christianity, doesn’t make it so.[/quote]

Just because you blame Islam that does not make it so either, yet here we are.

[/quote]

But the people doing it are part of Islam, it comes directly from the Qu’ran. The Spanish Inquisition, even though done by “Christians” was not scriptural.

60

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

Orion, give me a quote from the New Testament which tells Christians to specifically burn witches at the stake.[/quote]

it’s not in the New Testament, but it’s still here, in the OT.
“thou shalt not suffer the sorceress to live” Exodus, 22:18

if more “inspiration” is needed to justify the burnings, you can always “interprete” these ones :

  • "Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.â?? (Luke 3:9)

  • “If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.” (John 15:6)

or you can just claim that the End is near, and then use good portions of the Revelations