Another idea: I only pull sumo on test days. I get my hip work in from box squats, and the rest of my pulling work comes from conventional deads. Somehow I have better sumo technique by only pulling that way once every 3 months or so, I couldn’t tell why.
The briefs idea seems even better though, and it’s been suggested more than once over at elitefts too.
I wouldn’t suggest pulling sumo once every 3 month’s if you’re not very familiar and comfortable with the movement.
Daraz, have you pulled sumo for a long time?
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
There are a few powerlifters that I lift with occasionally.
Haven’t really discussed training styles, nor have I had the opportunity to, thanks to different schedules. I’ll harass them next time I get the chance.
Gatorarmz, isn’t Lexen Xtreme doing the columbus pro am? …a friend seems to think that I should go, and I think I found all the info about it on the lexen site.
Neither Lexen Xtreme nor Westside are far from me, so I suppose I could go up there, though I don’t see why that would really be necessary. might be kinda cool though [/quote]
You don’t see why it would be necessary? You are about to embark on a system where you test a 1 or 3 rep max every week with maximal loads. Don’t you think that it would be better to learn good form before embarking on such a system? If you don’t, you might be lifting heavy weights week in and week out with bad form. This could lead to injuries somewhere down the line.
Here’s some advice: go down to WSB or another gym and get someone to teach you good form on everything from box squatting, to good mornings, deadlifts,squats even the bench press and everything in between. When you think that you have your form down, go back there and have someone critique it.
In the meantime do a search on Louie Simmons’ articles and learn about his system.
Buckeye Girl wrote:
"Gatorarmz, isn’t Lexen Xtreme doing the columbus pro am? …a friend seems to think that I should go, and I think I found all the info about it on the lexen site.
Neither Lexen Xtreme nor Westside are far from me, so I suppose I could go up there, though I don’t see why that would really be necessary. might be kinda cool though "[/quote]
Yes Lexen owner Dan Dague is running the Columbus Pro-Am this January. Dan is very good at directing meets so it should be very organized as well as entertaining. Meets are good to attend if your interested in competeing, but if not then maybe just for networking some training partners. The best reason for you to venture out for training is exactly what Julius Cesar just said, to really learn what we do!! It’s not always about lifting heavy all the time. Technique is the key to strength. The answer to your original post is right there. No one can teach you Westside style of training on the internet. You must learn in sweat…
I totally see your point about learning the right techniques and the importance of training with others with similar goals. Though, I wasn’t saying that I didn’t need anyone’s help or coaching, just that I didn’t feel that it would be necessary to go to Westside for a little help. I do know guys that are powerlifters and they are always willing to help me when I ask. They aren’t Louie Simmons, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t learn from them.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
You don’t see why it would be necessary? You are about to embark on a system where you test a 1 or 3 rep max every week with maximal loads.
[/quote]
Clearly you don’t understand the max effort method. ME days are NOT I repeat NOT test days. The only objective is to strain. If you break a record great if not it doesn’t mater as long as you strained.
Buckey girl,
Where do you usually train? I usually train at Jesse Owens North, somtimes the RPAC or ARC.
[quote]biggun7997 wrote:
Buckey girl,
Where do you usually train? I usually train at Jesse Owens North, somtimes the RPAC or ARC.[/quote]
JON. Going up there in about a half hour, actually.
I go to the RPAC every once in a while. Don’t like it much. Its crowded and I always see this creepy old that scares me.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
I totally see your point about learning the right techniques and the importance of training with others with similar goals. Though, I wasn’t saying that I didn’t need anyone’s help or coaching, just that I didn’t feel that it would be necessary to go to Westside for a little help. I do know guys that are powerlifters and they are always willing to help me when I ask. They aren’t Louie Simmons, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t learn from them.[/quote]
You don’t necessarily have to go to Westside, but if you can, why wouldn’t you? I would take advantage of the fact that you live so close to them.
Either way, just find someone who knows how to perform the lifts correctly and, just as importantly is a good teacher.
[quote]Pemdas wrote:
Clearly you don’t understand the max effort method. ME days are NOT I repeat NOT test days. The only objective is to strain. If you break a record great if not it doesn’t mater as long as you strained.
[/quote]
"We will usually do a 90% weight as a last warm-up and then hopefully a record over 100%, possibly two or three PR�??s. We invariably go until we miss a weight. This is the best way to achieve a true max effort. "
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Pemdas wrote:
Clearly you don’t understand the max effort method. ME days are NOT I repeat NOT test days. The only objective is to strain. If you break a record great if not it doesn’t mater as long as you strained.
"We will usually do a 90% weight as a last warm-up and then hopefully a record over 100%, possibly two or three PR�??s. We invariably go until we miss a weight. This is the best way to achieve a true max effort. "
[/quote]
“If you do not always break a record, don’t worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easily to the point you really didn’t strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.”
Dave Tate cscs
buckeye, I’m in the same boat as you, thanks for making this thread
you’re awesome, and we’ll share whiskey sometime
[quote]Modi wrote:
“If you do not always break a record, don’t worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easily to the point you really didn’t strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.”
Dave Tate cscs
www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/dtate5.htm
[/quote]
Here is what I wrote:
You don’t see why it would be necessary? You are about to embark on a system where you test a 1 or 3 rep max every week with maximal loads.
Show me how Dave Tate’s statement contradicts this? I never said that you have to set a new PR every week, because obviously this will not happen every week; what I said is that you will test a new 1 or 3 rep max every week.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Modi wrote:
“If you do not always break a record, don’t worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easily to the point you really didn’t strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.”
Dave Tate cscs
www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/dtate5.htm
Here is what I wrote:
You don’t see why it would be necessary? You are about to embark on a system where you test a 1 or 3 rep max every week with maximal loads.
Show me how Dave Tate’s statement contradicts this? I never said that you have to set a new PR every week, because obviously this will not happen every week; what I said is that you will test a new 1 or 3 rep max every week.
[/quote]
I stay away from trading barbs on the net, because any clown can stand back and say shit from the security of a keyboard. I have been holding back in respect for Buckeye girl as I didn’t want to turn a perfectly legitimate thread into something else. But since you’re starting your typical know-it-all crap, I couldn’t stand by any longer. Seriously, for all of your supposed knowledge of “Westside principles”, you are weak and clearly don’t know how to interpret ideas or principles to improve your training.
The mere fact that you are saying that you will be testing a “new 1 or 3 rep max” every week indicates the person is going for a 1-rep PR or a 3-rep PR on a given lift. The ideas from Westside’s ME day were based upon methods developed by Zatsiorsky, Verkoshansky, Medvedev and other elite Russian lifters and coaches. Have you ever heard of Prilepin’s Table?
On max effort lifts, the Russians advocated working in the 90% or greater range on for an optimal total of 7 lifts, with as few as 4 and as many as 10 depending on your level. In short, attaining PRs or “testing new maxes” are not one of the tenets of max effort day, they are merely a side effect. The whole goal is to work in the 90%+ range, strain against a heavy load; in other words: build absolute strength.
So, back to those briefs we were talking about earlier…are you guys talking about something like the Inzer power pant? Are those similar to the bottom half of a single ply suit?
I know some of the other companies make briefs, but they all seem to be multi ply and I know those can’t be right.
It sounds like you guys are really just getting into an argument over semantics. You probably could say that you’re ‘testing’ every week, but the end result is still the same. You’re working up to a new max in another lift regardless of what you call it.
Buckeye Girl - to answer your question about briefs, you could probably do well with something like power pants, but you’re not really going to get much benefit from them. I would buy some single-ply titan briefs to start out. It will be something good you can train in, and then come meet time, just wear them under whatever suit you have. They will also last you a long time. You don’t need much brief for training, especially as a beginner. You could even put off getting briefs; I didn’t buy any gear until I was about 6 months into powerlifting.
[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
I totally see your point about learning the right techniques and the importance of training with others with similar goals. Though, I wasn’t saying that I didn’t need anyone’s help or coaching, just that I didn’t feel that it would be necessary to go to Westside for a little help. I do know guys that are powerlifters and they are always willing to help me when I ask. They aren’t Louie Simmons, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t learn from them.[/quote]
Nope your right, but it doesn’t hurt to see. I hope your training goes well, take care, holler if you change your mind. Later, Joe Riddle
Question
What’s the difference between RE and DE? And do they get their own days? Or how does that work with ME days? Thanks guys
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
Question
What’s the difference between RE and DE? And do they get their own days? Or how does that work with ME days? Thanks guys[/quote]
correct me if I’m wrong on this one, but I think…
DE is dynamic effort. The key is speed, and weight is around 50% of your 1 RM.
RE refers to repetition exercises. They are the assitance exercises that follow your main ME or DE exercise in every workout. Of course the exact reps/sets vary, but it seems they are typically 3-5 sets of 8-12 reps.
In “Working with the Standard Template”, Wendler talks about high stress and low stress exercises (military press vs. front raises, for example) and suggests that the high stress go on DE days though, I don’t think that is really a rule, it just makes the most sense.
A couple articles I came across. If anyone else is looking for more info on the westside template…
Working With the Standard Template
By Jim Wendler
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/template.htm
The Eight Keys, Part IV
A complete guide to maximum strength development
by Dave Tate
(has links to 1,2 & 3)
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459483&cr=supplements
The Periodization Bible �?? Part II
The New Testament �?? Conjugated Periodization
by Dave Tate
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459671&cr=