[quote]strengthcomes1st wrote:
Creatinine was the one. [/quote]
there are plenty of threads on the internet where guys who train hard have high Creatinine - if you have trained close-ish to the test - muscle breakdown will make the levels higher. Ask for another blood test don’t train 48 hour before the test.
High protein intake leads directly to high Creatinine. Having high creatinine (and creatinine:BUN ratio) while eating high protein does not mean you have a kidney problem.
High protein can make an existing kidney problem worse (that is my understanding) but it does not make healthy kidneys become unhealthy
MON: Damn! What dont you know?! Thats what it was I believe.
I am fairly certain elevated creatinine levels are often simply a sign of muscle breakdown; i.e. the normal consequence of training with weights. Some years ago I remember noting that my creatinine levels were high and so I looked into it. I am surprised your doctor doesn’t know this, but maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. The older I get, the less medical professionals seem to know.
I suspect that if you were to have a blood test taken two or three days after your last workout, your creatinine levels would be at or near normal.
[quote]strengthcomes1st wrote:
I am probably over-trusting. The reason I thought I needed to lower my protein is because that is exactly what she said, “you need to cut your intake in half.” she also said that my kidneys were not functioning properly, and her proof of that was my heightened creatinine levels. I understand now, I should’nt believe all healthcare professionals. Thanks guys [/quote]
How recently had you worked out before your blood was taken? A hard workout will raise creatinine levels way up due to muscle breakdown. Next time you go in take a couple days off of working out prior, if levels are normal that would be the cause. I went thru the same thing, Dr said I must have suffered a recent heart attack based on my high creatinine levels, when I explained I worked out very hard the day before, he said that was likely the cause. Subsequent tests were normal when I was fully recovered from any workouts.
For clarity’s sake, the doctor interpreted your blood work in a way that simply doesn’t apply to your (our) tiny, tiny demographic of people. It doesn’t mean he or she is incompetent for most of your health needs.
Dumping on medical professionals for not immediately coming to Zebras when hoof-beats are heard is humorous for me.
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
For clarity’s sake, the doctor interpreted your blood work in a way that simply doesn’t apply to your (our) tiny, tiny demographic of people. It doesn’t mean he or she is incompetent for most of your health needs.
Dumping on medical professionals for not immediately coming to Zebras when hoof-beats are heard is humorous for me. [/quote]
Correct, however, if the kid is even half correct interpreting the Dr’s instructions, kinda weird conclusion that he must cut his protein intake in half based on those results and sending him on his way. That is typical medical establishment b.s.
[quote]sniper1 wrote:
[quote]Ghost22 wrote:
For clarity’s sake, the doctor interpreted your blood work in a way that simply doesn’t apply to your (our) tiny, tiny demographic of people. It doesn’t mean he or she is incompetent for most of your health needs.
Dumping on medical professionals for not immediately coming to Zebras when hoof-beats are heard is humorous for me. [/quote]
Correct, however, if the kid is even half correct interpreting the Dr’s instructions, kinda weird conclusion that he must cut his protein intake in half based on those results and sending him on his way. That is typical medical establishment b.s.[/quote]
Or, as previously said, the OP did not give enough information for anyone to pass judgement or give recommendations.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Holy crap.
“Hi guys, My flim flam is 4,500 and the normal flap floop is 365. Apparently this means I need to stop eating protein”
Why do people leave the doctor’s office with a compete misunderstanding of what is wrong with them?[/quote]
B/c people are stupid, doctors are people, hence all doctors are stupid? i keed, i Keed. But flim flam, that’s some funny stuff for most, but my paps died of too much flim flam, I no longer find it funny
Another doctor confusing symptoms/indicators with the condition itself…
…nothing new here.
Are you sure you’re talking about creatinine OP? Since the upper limit of creatinine is not 250 whatever/whatever units in Europe or North America. As its been mentioned, and what is most likely is that a 2-fold increase in serum creatinine is most likely from a) a recent hard workout, or b) eating a lot of protein. Since you do both it is most likely a benign increase. I would recommend taking a few days off training before your next blood test to see if it settles down, if it doesn’t, your doctor might actually be onto something.
As a general rule, most doctors I know (work with) don’t worry for some results even if they’re 3-5 times above the normal range. Liver enzymes, for example, can be easily elevated with various drugs or a couple of nights of heavy drinking. I remember doing a blood test once after a hard leg day, my creatine kinase shot up to 2500 (normal range is about 40-180 U/l). So you can see why some ignorant doctor might think I have a disease, such as myositis. Im just happy I have a pretty good understanding of nutrition as a future doctor.
Well, my point is, even though your doctor might be overreacting you should still pay attention to what he/she says, if you have a disagreement I recommend you look for a second opinion, it is your right after all.
[quote]the_gunner wrote:
Are you sure you’re talking about creatinine OP? Since the upper limit of creatinine is not 250 whatever/whatever units in Europe or North America. As its been mentioned, and what is most likely is that a 2-fold increase in serum creatinine is most likely from a) a recent hard workout, or b) eating a lot of protein. Since you do both it is most likely a benign increase. I would recommend taking a few days off training before your next blood test to see if it settles down, if it doesn’t, your doctor might actually be onto something. As a general rule, most doctors I know (work with) don’t worry for some results even if they’re 3-5 times above the normal range. Liver enzymes, for example, can be easily elevated with various drugs or a couple of nights of heavy drinking. I remember doing a blood test once after a hard leg day, my creatine kinase shot up to 2500 (normal range is about 40-180 U/l). So you can see why some ignorant doctor might think I have a disease, such as myositis. Im just happy I have a pretty good understanding of nutrition as a future doctor.
Well, my point is, even though your doctor might be overreacting you should still pay attention to what he/she says, if you have a disagreement I recommend you look for a second opinion, it is your right after all.[/quote]
?
His doc doesn’t have to be overreacting. None of us here knows who this guy is as a patient or anything else about him…not even a picture. If he’s small, then of course no doc is going to assume “weight lifting” when looking at lab readings. My gp wouldn’t even be phased by that because the cause is staring him in the face.
The issue that really matters is why the hell someone would leave the doctor’s office with so little understanding of what is even wrong with them.
I agree with you 100%. What I meant was that it may or may not be something. You gotta look at the whole picture and make a good judgement call when it comes to a kid training a lot and coming in with slightly elevated creatinine. Theres always a chance there may actually be something wrong with his kidneys but the elevation is more likely due to his training and diet. Thats also why I recommend a second opinion. In either case whether its something or nothing its better to hear it from two people, and of course leave with the proper information.
Baseline creatinine (a single test) is not as important as its trend over time. Baselines vary from person to person. Damage to the nephron is usually signaled by a significant increase in Cr in subsequent testing with respect to baseline. Acute Kidney Injury (AKI) is judged by % increase in creatinine from baseline in addition to Urine Output in mL/kg/h. Chronic Kidney Disease (CKD) is judged via GFR (Glomerular Filtration Rate), whos calculation involves creatinine, age, bodyweight and sex.
Creatinine levels can be elevated from simply carrying significant muscle mass (eg #1 here). This does not necessarily have to come from a hard workout or increased protein intake. There are many things that can cause an increase.
No one here is a Nephrologist. If your MD did a poor job of explaining things to you then you should call his/her office and request a return call to discuss/better understand the situation. If this does not leave you satisfied you might consider simply switching to a different physician (if this kind of thing is important to you). Imo, helping you to understand your state of health is one of the most important aspects of patient care.
(Most importantly) Using the internet to try to understand and interpret individual problems with no solid data, no history, no physical exam and no known specialists present (anyone can say they have any education and there is no way to verify it here) is a dangerous way to go about things like this. The internet is great for a great many things. Healthcare is not one of them.
Do you supplement with creatine?
Can that cause higher creatinine measurements, also?
[quote]corstijeir wrote:
I was diagnosed with leukemia before I even went to my official doctor for diagnosis, she had me admitted to the hospital, then the hospital asked me if I took any protein powder because “it can lead to increased white blood count”.
I wanted to check myself the fuck out right then, but I needed their testing for insurance confirmation. Ignorant. You don’t have a WBC of 250,000 because of protein powder…[/quote]
Whoa whoa wait. It can increase white blood cell count? I just started a thread to the effect that I get sick less when I’m drinking a lot of whey and the one response said there was either something wrong with me or I was crazy. Why wouldn’t increased white blood cell count be a good thing? Wouldn’t that boost the immune system?
[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
Do you supplement with creatine?
Can that cause higher creatinine measurements, also?[/quote]
No, it doesn’t
[quote]ironcross wrote:
[quote]corstijeir wrote:
I was diagnosed with leukemia before I even went to my official doctor for diagnosis, she had me admitted to the hospital, then the hospital asked me if I took any protein powder because “it can lead to increased white blood count”.
I wanted to check myself the fuck out right then, but I needed their testing for insurance confirmation. Ignorant. You don’t have a WBC of 250,000 because of protein powder…[/quote]
Whoa whoa wait. It can increase white blood cell count? I just started a thread to the effect that I get sick less when I’m drinking a lot of whey and the one response said there was either something wrong with me or I was crazy. Why wouldn’t increased white blood cell count be a good thing? Wouldn’t that boost the immune system?[/quote]
1.) I think his comment was to the effect that doctors are woefully unprepared to help the small percentage of the population who weight-train consistently.
2.) Yes, whey protein does absolutely boost the immune system, a fact which has been well-established for many years now.
Superfast- I can’t tell if your number 2 is sarcastic or not. Where’d you find information about that?